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God Doesnt Exist
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Alright, so your deity doesnt have a physical body, but "he" is a male. What exactly is a "spirit"? And why would a spirit being that didnt exist
inside the physical universe, as opposed to some "unphysical" one? Every theist has a mental defect and this is a fact. They believe in irrational
things [Not consistent with or using reason.] Delusional [A person in the state of holding an erroneous belief that is held in spite of evidence to
the contrary] Ignorant [Lacking basic knowledge] and last Superstitious [Showing ignorance of the laws of nature, faith in magic or chance.] I cannot
take your word for fact because it is unprovable. Sometimes I dont see Jesus in my bean burrito, as some others might have. I see a delicious meal.
1) Nature is not reality, what it comes down to is we just plain have no clue what reality is.
2) There is ALWAYS something that can be defined as God, to our ancestors it was the Sun and the Moon, today it's the "Creator", someday we'll find that one thing that must be called God, and it will encompass all things, being the last.
Well Anarchist, the sad fact is many things in this universe are illogical yet they exist, take for example: THE UNIVERSE. Which its mere existance is illogical, but then if there were no such thing as existance there'd be no debate about it then would there be?
It's like trying to argue that you don't exist....insane.
There is no "Evil".
Is it any more evil to have a child than it is for some ill to befall you.
Is it any more evil to be kind than it is to kill?
No.
Evil is a term we can no longer use....Evil does not exist in our world.
Disorder and disfunction, is what we call "evil".
It is disfunctional to wrongfully kill someone, disfunctional to make people feel bad...all these things harm the cohesion of society.
Which is why we have morals and superstitions and the what-not.
But Evil? Evil is much more...it would be a state of existance that has no cohesion, which in this universe, there is no such thing.
If it is here it is here for a purpose, even if it makes us suffer.
For life is about experiences, the good and the bad.
I do stress for the so called "Athiests" to actually think hard and long on this question.
Are you denying the existance of God, or of the Christian God.
Because most I encounter will answer the second, and judging through your arguments Anarchist, I believe you are no different.
2) There is ALWAYS something that can be defined as God, to our ancestors it was the Sun and the Moon, today it's the "Creator", someday we'll find that one thing that must be called God, and it will encompass all things, being the last.
originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
So if something "supernatural," were to exist, by its own definition is illogical and non-existant
Well Anarchist, the sad fact is many things in this universe are illogical yet they exist, take for example: THE UNIVERSE. Which its mere existance is illogical, but then if there were no such thing as existance there'd be no debate about it then would there be?
It's like trying to argue that you don't exist....insane.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
There is no "Evil".
Is it any more evil to have a child than it is for some ill to befall you.
Is it any more evil to be kind than it is to kill?
No.
Evil is a term we can no longer use....Evil does not exist in our world.
Disorder and disfunction, is what we call "evil".
It is disfunctional to wrongfully kill someone, disfunctional to make people feel bad...all these things harm the cohesion of society.
Which is why we have morals and superstitions and the what-not.
But Evil? Evil is much more...it would be a state of existance that has no cohesion, which in this universe, there is no such thing.
If it is here it is here for a purpose, even if it makes us suffer.
For life is about experiences, the good and the bad.
I do stress for the so called "Athiests" to actually think hard and long on this question.
Are you denying the existance of God, or of the Christian God.
Because most I encounter will answer the second, and judging through your arguments Anarchist, I believe you are no different.
Advisor, Are you supporting the use of selective ignorance? Religion is a bad word because it is irrational and leads to detrimental things.
Nature is reality, we know what reality is. Its all that exists. Well, If you want to call reality, which has always existed "God," be my guest. In fact, why not call it "Blue"? For reality to exist, it had to exist forever, indeffinetely, for it to be otherwise, nothing could exist. Any deity invented by man did not exist forever, since it had a begginning.
No, The universe isnt illogical. There is nothing in existance that is inconsistent. It seems you dont have a firm grasp on reality. You're right, morals existed before the bible, and there is no absolute right or wrong. I am beyond subjective manmade concepts such as "Good" and "Evil," however why would a deity who loved us, who according to the trinity was once a man allow us to suffer? You're just trying to change language to dismiss my points, which is pointless. I accept the nonexistance of all deities, not just yours.
Nature is reality, we know what reality is. Its all that exists. Well, If you want to call reality, which has always existed "God," be my guest. In fact, why not call it "Blue"? For reality to exist, it had to exist forever, indeffinetely, for it to be otherwise, nothing could exist. Any deity invented by man did not exist forever, since it had a begginning.
No, The universe isnt illogical. There is nothing in existance that is inconsistent. It seems you dont have a firm grasp on reality. You're right, morals existed before the bible, and there is no absolute right or wrong. I am beyond subjective manmade concepts such as "Good" and "Evil," however why would a deity who loved us, who according to the trinity was once a man allow us to suffer? You're just trying to change language to dismiss my points, which is pointless. I accept the nonexistance of all deities, not just yours.
It is 4:18 AM here, and I'm tired. I'll talk to everyone tomorrow, Goodnight and golden dreams everyone
Antichrist..... holding the tenet that supernatural beings cannot exist is irrational too. You do not hold yourself open to the fact that such beings
can exist. It is your definition that theists are irrational and ignorant. In fact many of the theists I know and have known are more rational and
knowledgeable than you will ever hope to be. As for seeing Jesus in a bean burrito - that is a cheap atheist shot. As for what happened to me, I
really don't give a damn if you believe me or not. I was there and know what happened. (Strange no one has ever asked exactly what did happen when
I make references to it.) If you cannot accept the testimony of a man, than what would you accept? You have a problem that your mind is closed to
possiblities. No amount of proof will change it.
Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
"It appears that you're a pantheist if you're going to define god into existance by essentially modifying the definitions of Nature/Reality into "God," sure."
Sir, did you not "re-define" or give a "modifying" definition of Nature/Reality not being God? Whats the difference? You fail to grasp that God is beyond mere definition. You seek an answer to something that, indeed, requires no proof. The "proof" exists all around you but for whatever reasons, other than denial, you fail to see or bluntly, don't want to see.
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"I've no reason to worship nature/reality, either. My rights were not given by a deity. My creator are my parents, who engaged in sexual intercourse leading to biological reproduction. There was no deity involved, the same happened for you. People create their own rights, and take them away if they wish."
Darwinism, evolution..............please. Stop. Take a deep breath. Your logics adding up to being "logical" are only through your eyes....in other words, your belief, your view, your idea, your thought, your opinion. Question, explain to me what conclusively, empirically, "sparked" the Primordial soup to kick start "evolution"? If you can answer this empirically please feel free to simply send that answer in to this contest to collect your money. Please be warned though....that NO ONE has been able to do so. www.us.net... Also, might want to look at who the judges are for authenticity....you have pretty much all the big names in the many various fields of "origins". Pray tell, could you also tell me where and how the "Helix" came about?
Secondly, God is not a "deity". A "deity" is something like Zues, Apollo, etc. That may well be your conclusion and explanation for God, but again, be rest assurd God will reveal His true nature and character, as other than a "deity", to you in His time....not yours!
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"I'm talking about "If God existed, and had the ability to change the events that happened, and was indeed loving, would God indeed refuse to help a starving child?" You attempt a red herring, which is sad."
First off, you sir, are indeed creating the "red herring"....I would go as far as saying, your calling the kettle black and thats truly the sad thing about this. God does not control events nor us, nor your actions, deeds, etc. We are governed by a natural law, for which God invented and implemented.....for every action there is a consequence! Simple, to the point, nothing to read into. "Sufferings" are a cause of Man. Man is defined as: you, me, it, they, everyone, humans, etc. "Sufferings" are not by God, nor attributed to God; they are an "effect". You know, the theory of "cause and effect"....well, goes something like this.....we, Man, are the "cause" and those children you so keep bringing up are the "effect". Why do you insist on believing that God has to be responsible for our "causes"? It again equates to nothing more than denial.
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"Because indeed, man creates his own problems, thats because deities do not exist."
If thats your best "answer".......that is also your opinion and further equates to flawed "evidences". I have already told you God is not a "deity". "Deity" has set powers, abilities, etc. "Deities" requires and needs. God neither requires nor needs and is "unlimited."
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"I've no reason to assume some loving deity lets children suffer, there must be an explanation as to why then there is suffering. Easy, there is no quick fix-all you can pray to, if man wants to fix his problems, he has to get serious about it."
Thats, again, your preference, your conclusion, and a answer that best suits you.
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"You're accusing me, as a homosapien of contributing to the worlds problems? On the contrary, I do much to end them, I'm not part of the problem, I'm part of the solution. No, not all the easy questions have been answered, I believe that to be a lie of the utmost order."
Lie? Care to explain? Your perhaps are lying to yourself when you claim you are not part of the problem but part of the solution. You are an entity, individual, that is part of a greater entity, Humankind. If the problem persists, you are, simply still apart of the problem. All of us can claim to be apart of the solution but in truth.....problem and solution are not intrinsic...they are one in the same. Till the problem is solved, the problem persists, thus if the problem persists, you are still apart of the problem.....you know......'B' is to 'A' as 'A' is to 'B'.
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"You talk about me denying a deity and his existance, if this deity exists why isnt it a fact? "
Let me ask you this: what is truly "fact"? What is truly "reality"? I stated it once and I'll state it again.....God does not require proof...it is a matter of being self-evident. If "proof" is required then "faith" is of no consequence, irrelevent. There is no proof for "love", yet you partake of it everyday.....don't you? Love requires more "faith" then believing in God...bet on it. But to address your "need"....again, be assurd, God will reveal Himself to you when He is ready, not you.....God is unavoidable........and you sir, are certainly guarenteed of this.
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"I deny all deities, you deny all but one. You must realize humanity has invented several millions of deities. So once you realize what allows you to dismiss all others than yours, you'll understand why I dont make that one tiny exception. I do not act condescending towards people who deny the presupposed existance of Zeus. You're proving nothing, you're just spreading misinformation."
Again, another conclusion, another stance, another postion, another idea.....etc! Do you indeed realize that you, yourself, in telling us we prove nothing, that you prove nothing also? Need I say more? You are the one asserting that "something" does not exist.......you are the one responsible for providing the evidence. Not anyone here.....you have that sole responsibilty. I stated it before......you will neither believe nor except any other view but what agrees to yours or the one you currently hold.....fact! You posted the subject matter...you back it up. Science cannot even disprove the existence of God, how do you expect to do it? Simple denial? They may work for you but proves nothing to no one here but your own self....so why the topic? To just further your "claim" that so "logically" cling to? Answer this: "If believing in a God is irrational; is not believing in a God rational?" Thats deep, and beyond your mere "denial"...be further assurd of that.
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"Technically, no. There are an infinite number of hypothetical gods, equally likely as the next. This proves nothing, however. I would say that they experienced natural phenomenon but did not understand it so they attributed it to the explanation for everything people are too ignorant to understand. "Mommy, why is it raining?" "You made God Cry." These fictitious analogies have no validity or respect inside the scientific community, nor do they give any honest explanation into natural phenomenon. I would severely doubt your sanity. Which sounds better, "I hear a voice in my head and it won't go away" or "God speaks to me and I have a personal relationship with him"?
BillyBob, I'm talking about mathematics, not biological reproduction. Yes, my concept of two determines what two is. If I used the word five to describe the word 2, 5+5=10 in actuality it would equal four. However, Almost everyone (Excluding you) agreed upon what each number represents. Some poor oafs had to write a 200 page book demonstrating that 2+2=4; because of people like you.
A rainbow in its least technical sense is an arc of colored light in the sky caused by refraction of the sun's rays by rain. So are you saying "Arcs of colored light in the sky caused by refractions of the sun's rays by rain is God"? I hope not, because thats laughable. Yes, I'm sure you cannot make reality stop existing by changing the definition of reality to one meaning "Non-existant."
I believe in what exists, I'm not limited to what I can see, hear, taste, touch, smell, etc.
I am not unconscious right now, you're not adding anything interesting to the conversation besides ignorance.
The character Sherlock Holmes is fictional, please think about that.
You're the one who is using psuedo-reason. Fish are presumably possible because they have been demonstrated to be real. They could not however exist in the Dead Sea. I do not see what your point it. Emotions, hallucinations and other physical phenomenon have been explained.
A poet and philosopher once said: "Reality is, once one stops believing in, doesnt go away."
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All the rest of this is just posturing, amounting to nothing other than proving to you that your "Realistic/Realism" stance is the correct postion. I certainly hope your back doesn't hurt, cause that is quite a load of speculation and hypothosis your carrying.
Dude, you are the one claiming that God is non-existent.....that further means, that it is YOU, who have to provide the proofs and evidences, not anyone of us. The problem I see here is that you seek validation for your stance and belief..........cause if you really sought an answer, that answer was already self-evident and had to hurt when it hit you in the face.
Peace.
regards
seekerof
[Edited on 13-7-2003 by Seekerof]
[Edited on 13-7-2003 by Seekerof]
[Edited on 13-7-2003 by Seekerof]
This disscussion is turely like smacking your head into a concreate wall, in an attempt to bust it down.
You would think that antichristsuperstar would, in all his informed, logical opinion, would relise that logically there is no where for this argument to go, other than flaming, which I do not doubt will happen by the 3 page.
One can liken these sorts of people to the door knocking Jehova Witnesses, canvasing for more adherents.
What do you hope to prove to all of us.
Logic 101 - I think, therefore I am.
I believe that god exists, therefore he does.
You would think that antichristsuperstar would, in all his informed, logical opinion, would relise that logically there is no where for this argument to go, other than flaming, which I do not doubt will happen by the 3 page.
One can liken these sorts of people to the door knocking Jehova Witnesses, canvasing for more adherents.
What do you hope to prove to all of us.
Logic 101 - I think, therefore I am.
I believe that god exists, therefore he does.
Anarchist for someone who has so little understanding of the natural world I doubt you should tell me my ideas are "wrong".
See no one can really say ANYONE is wrong in this matter, but your supporting reasons are pretty bad at best.
1) We do not know what reality is. This "universe" is not necessarily even flat, or round, or anything, there is now an equal possibility it is 2 dimensional.
2) There is no reason for anything to be here.
3) "reality" has not always existed, the Universe as we know it began 15 billion odd years ago, before that there was literally nothing. No time, no Space to our minds, that is nothingness.
To our souls...there may have been more.
4) Something doesn't spawn from nothing.
Again you keep trying to disprove God by disproving the Christian God.
I urge you to try and disprove God...not some personified imagination concocted by primitives.
1) You can't really disprove any religion's beliefs either, which makes it a tough situation not worth arguing about.
But finally, there's no way ever you could disprove God, especially through the use of Science, which only proves there is one, due to the complexity and sheer illogical fact that there is anything.
Take mass for instance, why does there really need to be mass? Or numbers for that matter, can't it just be something else...along the lines of just 1 probability.
That would make the most sense, that all things were the same...why should there be differences and interactions.
If all there is is "reality" why isn't reality just one thing.
One existance.
In fact the opposite is true, as we speak the probabilities...the "Entropy" of the universe is increasing.
Reality is literally, flying apart...so much for your theories.
You say reality is forever, yet here we are flying to peices as we go along.
You shouldn't confuse your disbelief in the Christian god with trying to disprove God...God equalling that thing that encompasses all...the "infinity" of all things.
Most likely we are as much a part of god as the next "existing" thing.
And if you think that a rock exists...well...you're pretty foolish.
I exist whether someone sees or smells or touches or tastes or hears me at all.
While a rock, exists only when we see it. If it existed to itself then it would truly exist.
Other wise it's just a pile of chemicals and matter, lumped together in a point in universe, indistinguishable from any other point.
Anarchist your understanding of "metaphysics" will increase the more you think about it and the more about science you do learn.
See no one can really say ANYONE is wrong in this matter, but your supporting reasons are pretty bad at best.
1) We do not know what reality is. This "universe" is not necessarily even flat, or round, or anything, there is now an equal possibility it is 2 dimensional.
2) There is no reason for anything to be here.
3) "reality" has not always existed, the Universe as we know it began 15 billion odd years ago, before that there was literally nothing. No time, no Space to our minds, that is nothingness.
To our souls...there may have been more.
4) Something doesn't spawn from nothing.
Originally posted by Anarchist...
however why would a deity who loved us, who according to the trinity was once a man allow us to suffer?
Again you keep trying to disprove God by disproving the Christian God.
I urge you to try and disprove God...not some personified imagination concocted by primitives.
1) You can't really disprove any religion's beliefs either, which makes it a tough situation not worth arguing about.
But finally, there's no way ever you could disprove God, especially through the use of Science, which only proves there is one, due to the complexity and sheer illogical fact that there is anything.
Take mass for instance, why does there really need to be mass? Or numbers for that matter, can't it just be something else...along the lines of just 1 probability.
That would make the most sense, that all things were the same...why should there be differences and interactions.
If all there is is "reality" why isn't reality just one thing.
One existance.
In fact the opposite is true, as we speak the probabilities...the "Entropy" of the universe is increasing.
Reality is literally, flying apart...so much for your theories.
You say reality is forever, yet here we are flying to peices as we go along.
You shouldn't confuse your disbelief in the Christian god with trying to disprove God...God equalling that thing that encompasses all...the "infinity" of all things.
Most likely we are as much a part of god as the next "existing" thing.
And if you think that a rock exists...well...you're pretty foolish.
I exist whether someone sees or smells or touches or tastes or hears me at all.
While a rock, exists only when we see it. If it existed to itself then it would truly exist.
Other wise it's just a pile of chemicals and matter, lumped together in a point in universe, indistinguishable from any other point.
Anarchist your understanding of "metaphysics" will increase the more you think about it and the more about science you do learn.
Originally posted by FreeMason
Take mass for instance, why does there really need to be mass?
**FM**
Mass exists for the antichristsuperstar's benefit. He has already stated that there is no reality other than what exists materially...therefore, he is extremely dependent on mass...he has no existence (by the way...THAT is how THAT word is spelled ACS) without matter.
Personally, I'm glad I have a form of reality and existence which is NOT dependent on the one thing in the universe that is slowly grinding down to nothing (i.e. matter).
**ACS**
As for your logic (which is nothing new...just borrowed old beat arguments that people with far more grey matter than you have discussed for ages):
1. if you are going to attempt to define all existence via measurable, detectable physical phenomena - make sure you take into account hysteresis, parallax, and measurement artifacts...once you do that you'll realize that the "reality" you are describing cannot be proven.
2. you have not yet proven that "2" exists, therefore any statements concerning "2" or summations thereof should be necessarily excluded from your argument against the existence of God.
3. Well, I have been spending the better part of MY existence...which right now YOU can't prove...looking for the person who was in charge of "setting the bar" for God. Apparently I have finally found him...nice to meet you. After you get through all the requirements of God spoon-feeding us, equipping our children with force-fields to fend off perverts, and establishing utopia so that none of us ever have to get up off our a$$es and do anything for ourselves or others...could you also put in the requirements for Him PROVING Himself to you...free strawberry milkshakes every Saturday afternoon...delivered to my house? THEN there will be no arguments whatever, that there exists a Higher Power.
And good luck, because here is where the proselytizers of your "there is no God just science" religion really get the short shaft on arguments like this. IF, in the end, us poor delusional believers in the Creator are wrong...we really haven't lost anything but our delusion. You guys, however, if wrong...stand to lose EVERYTHING.
And you ARE a proselytizer...your original post ended "Wake up people, Gods dont exist." If you will review the threads that are posted on this board, you will find that the posters here do not post about their beliefs for the purpose of "converting" others. They do not post threads stating "my religion is right...and if you don't convert you're damned". PLEASE IN THE FUTURE, HAVE THE SAME RESPECT...stop trying to convert people.
[Edited on 13-7-2003 by Valhall]
When you die, God might denie your existance.
Evil comes from humans and satan.
40,000 children that die from starvation will have better afterlife than you, they are probably all in heaven, where you wont go if you continue like this.
We have free will, and noone asked, prayed to God to save those children.
Remember, hell is more terrible than all terrors of war and people dying from starvation together, all that passes, but hell is eternal.
You should worry about that more than those children, infact, be happy for them.
"Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."
Tell me, why would god help unthankful, evil and stupid people who insult him so much?
Also, Jesus is not a zombie, he ressurected in perfect uncorruptable heavenly body. If you haven't studies his ressurection you have NO RIGHT to discuss or say anything about it because you clearly have no idea what are you talking about.
You have no reason to believe anything I say, but it has much more evidences than your ridiculous claim which is false.
I don't just say claim its false, bible has clearly all answers you asked.
There is no excuse for being ignorant on purpose, and how can you be 100% sure in something when there are clearly many evidences that claim otherwise.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Why would anyone worship a deity that supposedly has the power to stop 40,000 children from dying of starvation every day, yet doesnt?
Evil comes from humans and satan.
40,000 children that die from starvation will have better afterlife than you, they are probably all in heaven, where you wont go if you continue like this.
We have free will, and noone asked, prayed to God to save those children.
Remember, hell is more terrible than all terrors of war and people dying from starvation together, all that passes, but hell is eternal.
You should worry about that more than those children, infact, be happy for them.
"Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."
Tell me, why would god help unthankful, evil and stupid people who insult him so much?
Also, Jesus is not a zombie, he ressurected in perfect uncorruptable heavenly body. If you haven't studies his ressurection you have NO RIGHT to discuss or say anything about it because you clearly have no idea what are you talking about.
You have no reason to believe anything I say, but it has much more evidences than your ridiculous claim which is false.
I don't just say claim its false, bible has clearly all answers you asked.
There is no excuse for being ignorant on purpose, and how can you be 100% sure in something when there are clearly many evidences that claim otherwise.
This sounds like ASC, is a bit on the inexperienced side.
Perhaps in mid to late teens, and having social problems or at home. My reccomendation is that the focus remain on the message that was intended. After all what is so wrong with being kind to others?
Don't forget what the point in religion was, a guide for people who have become lost or misguided in lifes trials.
Perhaps in mid to late teens, and having social problems or at home. My reccomendation is that the focus remain on the message that was intended. After all what is so wrong with being kind to others?
Don't forget what the point in religion was, a guide for people who have become lost or misguided in lifes trials.
Jagd, It's Anarchist, not Antichrist. That does however remind me of an excerpt from a crass song: "If you dont like religion, you can be the
AntiChrist, If you're tired of politics, you can be an Anarchist." It is irrational to believe in the supernatural, seeing as how nothing outside
of nature has ever been discovered; and for a good reason: It doesnt exist. Material: N. Derived from or composed of matter; "The material
universe." Material just means real.
Thank you for offering your opinion about your friends. I dont see the relevency of that. Just because you perceive them as intelligent, that doesnt negate the fact that they have a mental disorder caused by faulty logic. I've spoken to lots of theists who claimed to have God reveal himself to them. Sometimes Yahweh, sometimes Allah; I speak to different theists on a daily basis. Needless to say, all stories are redundant and inane. Please tell me however: "I saw The Lord God manifest himself in my taco", or "God revealed himself to me but I cant prove it to you, just please believe me, why not, I mean, please?"
No, I will not accept the testimony of man. Because man tends to lie, or spread dis or misinformation. Through their ignorance of natural phenomenon and other mechanisms of reality, they falsely attribute their misunderstanding to some deity that whisks away the truth. Its not that I'm closed off to possibilities, I'm extremely open to them. But opinions in theological matters dont change my mind because they are subjective in a field where they really need to be objective, but never will be. Proof changes my mind, however opions dont.
No, Seekerof. The definition of Nature & Reality do not include any deities, therefore I didnt have to modify the definition to exclude them. "God" is beyond mere definition? Then by your own admission you have no idea what you're talking about, furthermore you have no clue as to what you worship. The thing is, Deities do have definitions whether you fail to acknowledge them or not. No, once again you make a fallacy. No proof exists that proves the existance of deities or supernatural phenomenon.
I'd like to take this moment to give you a thumbs up at your use of italics and bold. Yes, possessing logic tends to make a person logical. I have opinions, but for the most part they stay in the areas of politics and philosophy. I do not make illogical claims, or use opions to objectively verify and dismiss other peoples subjective claims.
It seems that you're trying to derail any attention you might have received by your actions by placing a challenge on me, sort of a red herring if you will. I'm fine with that, there are large archives of information at my friends site: www.grahamkendall.net Go and knock yourself out.
n : any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force [syn: divinity, god, immortal]
Yes, even your "God" is a deity. No matter how you define it. Sorry. I'm creating the red herring? Please pay attention, I was merely stating if there was a deity in existance that was all-loving and knew the pains of being a man and also possessed the illogical and non-existant power of omnipotence that that deity would help the humans he created, knowing their troubles beforehand, so they would not need to suffer pointlessly. The thing is, there is suffering. So if there was a deity in existance, it didnt want to bother itself with the problem of preventing a few thousand children from dying. Not that I'm judging your deity, I just think I could do better than that. I'm not saying I'm more moral, though. Just thinking about it. As you stated earlier, you know absolutely nothing about the concept of your "God." You're speculations arise from some holy book, I suppose... Have you ever read that book all the way through?
KJV James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
KJV Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
KJV 2 Kings 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
KJV 2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
KJV Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Sure, according to the bible, the concept of "God" controls events, and peoples actions, and deeds. Baawas rule of biblical debate: For every verse, there is an equal, but opposite verse. The bible is laughable like that. But please remember this: Christians do not have faith in "God" so much as they have GREATER faith in the people who told them which god to worship, and ultimately -supreme- faith in thier ability to choose the correct god, and to correctly interpret that god. Christians, in reality, worship nobody but themselves.
Well, if you believe some other deity than whats in the bible, I wonder how you know so much about "God," It would be nice if you admitted you knew absolutely nothing about this concept at which you consistently talk about, which is strange. But, what you say is true, however "God" is nowhere to be found. Cause and effect, people create most of their own problems, and they will be the source of most of mine for the rest of my life.
I'm denying that if a "God" existed who loved us, he would love us enough to stop us from suffering. Being as to how some parts of the bible talk about "God" being omniscient and "God" creating people and knowing everything about them, what mistakes they'll committ, which place they'll end up in when they die: "Heaven" or "Hell." Notice that there aren't any actual pictures of those places, only artists conceptions of "Heaven" or "Hell"?
No, Your deity is limited too because it cannot do the impossible, meaning your deity is bound by logic. I say thats disinformation trickled down to ordinary people as misinformation whom are too ignorant to realize it. There are solutions to every problem, most aren't realistic because humans have become complacent and docile.
A "fact" is something which has been proven, not through subjectivity, rather objectivity. Reality is all that is in the actuality of existing, or being real. "God" does not require proof for illogical people such as "The couch in the white house who is plotting my assassination" doesnt require proof to an illogical schizophrenic. Yes, there is proof for the emotion known as "love," that was a lie. Love requires no faith, if you would wish to know more about emotions, do some research is quantum psychology, nuerolinguistic and biopsychology. Here's a quick link to get your feet wet: polipsy.vip.sina.com...
No, no deities will reveal themselves to me. You dont have to avoid something which isnt there. Just a logical explanation, sometimes when I was earlier and frightened of the dark for illogical reasons, I thought "I enjoy the dark, because it hides what could so easily be there in the light." And it has not since bothered me.
My beliefs change as the information I receive changes. I dont make my mind up by someone elses opinions, I form my own through my exposure to evidences of all things and the compiling of them through logic. God(s) are not observed, Science isnt concerned with disproving deities because god stories are useless in science. I use logic, science, philosophy, studied theology and a matter of things to disprove deities. Todays religion is tommorrows mythology, you know, the only difference between a cult and a religion is 1,000 years.
Since believing in deities is irrational, it would be rational to disbelieve all of them until evidence emerged that one may exist. Not saying thats going to happen, but I'm saying yes it is irrational and if you care about your sanity you might want to pursue that options.
I've been doing that, if you make claims, I'll feel free to refute them. Deities have already been disproven, you simply avoid the inevitable. Mark twain said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." I dont require validation because mine is validated. And not by intellectual dishonest systems such as "faith." Thanks for your time.
Sorry, Maddas. I dont flame, I do not participate in that. Logic 101? Descartes has been nailed to the wall, he had a severe mental disorder. I think, therefore I am, You do not think, therefore you are not. But nevermind. That's just a joke, Just because you believe something to be true doesnt make it true, if that were the case, this world would be a scary place. I wouldnt want to be anywhere remotely near a schizophrenic or serial killer. Think of the gruesome manifestations of that. Sounds like a good plot for a horror movie.
The universe is more than two dimensions. We do know what reality is.
There is no reason for anything to be here? Theres reasons, some we dont know yet. Yes, reality existed for infinity. Otherwise, nothing could happen. There would be no universe.
2: the state of being insubstantial or imaginary; not existing objectively or in fact [syn: irreality, reality]
Thats unrealitys definition. Yes, because most of you are christian theists. What is your deity besides some personified imagination concocted by primitives? Sure you can, if someone says "I believe in the invisible pink unicorn!" You can use logic to say: "If this unicorn otherwise known as a mythological creature was invisible, it could not be pink." Thus disproving the deity, one tiny inconsistency means non-existance. Science proves no deities, it just further expands human knowledge about nature/reality. Something existing isnt illogical, sorry.
Why cant things all be the same? In a way, they all are. But thats illogical to assume things would/should be different than the way they are now. Entropy isnt always true, entropy has an opposite thats been demonstrated in nature. Just because entropy increases in closed systems, that doesnt mean that reality is ending. Dialetical Materialism + Entropy = Forever.
If you want to worship nature, thats fine. Do you have existance without matter? No.
Water refracts light at a different angle, that doesnt mean thats a paradox and the sky is falling. So why would a parallax make you behave that way? Two is a number which is a concept which is intaniglbe but which yet exists to let us understand nature. That does not mean that numbers are without use.
Higher power? How about someone stronger than you? I think the concept if rediculous. I dont care about protecting everyone and creating utopia, because I know that due to humanities ignorance those goals are indeed impossible, but it would atleast help the world somewhat if we were a bit more rational. If we truly believed in cause and effect we might look at things again with more veracity. There are no deities, only nature/reality. Science is a human construct, a candle in the darkness, if you will. There was a time when religion ruled the world, the dark ages.
"What if" is never a reasonable explanation. Sorry.
And think about this, your pascals wager is a double edged sword. There are an infinite number of hypothetical deities which means that you have a 1/x=amount of deities chance of picking the correct one and ending up in heaven. Perhaps the real deity doesnt have a heaven or hell. Still, You're playing the theological lottery. And if you've ever played the lottery, you'd know you're going to lose.
What would we lose? Perhaps there actually is an all-loving god who doesnt punish people for being logical. Ever hear of Atheos? That deity rewards skepticism. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just open their minds up a bit.
Please, demonstrate that evil is objective and that this supernatural entity known as "satan" exists. Most of those children dont believe in Yahweh, they believe in other deities.
I believe in life *before* death, and I dont believe in some spooky place existing in some spiritual realm where people who think are punished for eternity, its just laughable to me. But, I realize that you actually believe that, which is fine.
I'm not going to be happy for children dying of lukemia, why would anyone in their right mind be happy for them, thats sick.
Why would "god" help? "God" never helps.
Jesus according to a 2,000 year old book rose from the dead (Dead people stay dead, so if he rose in the first place he was never actually dead, more like he was in a coma or unconscious state.) technically making him a zombie or undead. Jesus's resurrection is a myth, he died only once, just like all over organisms.
Thanks for your opinion, the bible has zero practical answers you couldnt attain elsewhere. Morals existed way before the bible, and religions existed way before the bible decided to assimilate them into its own theology. Every society has things it likes and doesnt like. There is no evidence counterwise to my position, sorry.
I'm not going to be christian because the bible has some nice stories. George Orwell has some nice stories, too. I dont see how age is relevent, but your enquiry is fine, I'm sixteen. I've no problems to talk about, other than my soundcard isnt working properly. People who become lost in their life and cant find where they were going and who go to religion for help have very little self-reliance.
Thank you for offering your opinion about your friends. I dont see the relevency of that. Just because you perceive them as intelligent, that doesnt negate the fact that they have a mental disorder caused by faulty logic. I've spoken to lots of theists who claimed to have God reveal himself to them. Sometimes Yahweh, sometimes Allah; I speak to different theists on a daily basis. Needless to say, all stories are redundant and inane. Please tell me however: "I saw The Lord God manifest himself in my taco", or "God revealed himself to me but I cant prove it to you, just please believe me, why not, I mean, please?"
No, I will not accept the testimony of man. Because man tends to lie, or spread dis or misinformation. Through their ignorance of natural phenomenon and other mechanisms of reality, they falsely attribute their misunderstanding to some deity that whisks away the truth. Its not that I'm closed off to possibilities, I'm extremely open to them. But opinions in theological matters dont change my mind because they are subjective in a field where they really need to be objective, but never will be. Proof changes my mind, however opions dont.
No, Seekerof. The definition of Nature & Reality do not include any deities, therefore I didnt have to modify the definition to exclude them. "God" is beyond mere definition? Then by your own admission you have no idea what you're talking about, furthermore you have no clue as to what you worship. The thing is, Deities do have definitions whether you fail to acknowledge them or not. No, once again you make a fallacy. No proof exists that proves the existance of deities or supernatural phenomenon.
I'd like to take this moment to give you a thumbs up at your use of italics and bold. Yes, possessing logic tends to make a person logical. I have opinions, but for the most part they stay in the areas of politics and philosophy. I do not make illogical claims, or use opions to objectively verify and dismiss other peoples subjective claims.
It seems that you're trying to derail any attention you might have received by your actions by placing a challenge on me, sort of a red herring if you will. I'm fine with that, there are large archives of information at my friends site: www.grahamkendall.net Go and knock yourself out.
n : any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force [syn: divinity, god, immortal]
Yes, even your "God" is a deity. No matter how you define it. Sorry. I'm creating the red herring? Please pay attention, I was merely stating if there was a deity in existance that was all-loving and knew the pains of being a man and also possessed the illogical and non-existant power of omnipotence that that deity would help the humans he created, knowing their troubles beforehand, so they would not need to suffer pointlessly. The thing is, there is suffering. So if there was a deity in existance, it didnt want to bother itself with the problem of preventing a few thousand children from dying. Not that I'm judging your deity, I just think I could do better than that. I'm not saying I'm more moral, though. Just thinking about it. As you stated earlier, you know absolutely nothing about the concept of your "God." You're speculations arise from some holy book, I suppose... Have you ever read that book all the way through?
KJV James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
KJV Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
KJV 2 Kings 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
KJV 2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
KJV Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Sure, according to the bible, the concept of "God" controls events, and peoples actions, and deeds. Baawas rule of biblical debate: For every verse, there is an equal, but opposite verse. The bible is laughable like that. But please remember this: Christians do not have faith in "God" so much as they have GREATER faith in the people who told them which god to worship, and ultimately -supreme- faith in thier ability to choose the correct god, and to correctly interpret that god. Christians, in reality, worship nobody but themselves.
Well, if you believe some other deity than whats in the bible, I wonder how you know so much about "God," It would be nice if you admitted you knew absolutely nothing about this concept at which you consistently talk about, which is strange. But, what you say is true, however "God" is nowhere to be found. Cause and effect, people create most of their own problems, and they will be the source of most of mine for the rest of my life.
I'm denying that if a "God" existed who loved us, he would love us enough to stop us from suffering. Being as to how some parts of the bible talk about "God" being omniscient and "God" creating people and knowing everything about them, what mistakes they'll committ, which place they'll end up in when they die: "Heaven" or "Hell." Notice that there aren't any actual pictures of those places, only artists conceptions of "Heaven" or "Hell"?
No, Your deity is limited too because it cannot do the impossible, meaning your deity is bound by logic. I say thats disinformation trickled down to ordinary people as misinformation whom are too ignorant to realize it. There are solutions to every problem, most aren't realistic because humans have become complacent and docile.
A "fact" is something which has been proven, not through subjectivity, rather objectivity. Reality is all that is in the actuality of existing, or being real. "God" does not require proof for illogical people such as "The couch in the white house who is plotting my assassination" doesnt require proof to an illogical schizophrenic. Yes, there is proof for the emotion known as "love," that was a lie. Love requires no faith, if you would wish to know more about emotions, do some research is quantum psychology, nuerolinguistic and biopsychology. Here's a quick link to get your feet wet: polipsy.vip.sina.com...
No, no deities will reveal themselves to me. You dont have to avoid something which isnt there. Just a logical explanation, sometimes when I was earlier and frightened of the dark for illogical reasons, I thought "I enjoy the dark, because it hides what could so easily be there in the light." And it has not since bothered me.
My beliefs change as the information I receive changes. I dont make my mind up by someone elses opinions, I form my own through my exposure to evidences of all things and the compiling of them through logic. God(s) are not observed, Science isnt concerned with disproving deities because god stories are useless in science. I use logic, science, philosophy, studied theology and a matter of things to disprove deities. Todays religion is tommorrows mythology, you know, the only difference between a cult and a religion is 1,000 years.
Since believing in deities is irrational, it would be rational to disbelieve all of them until evidence emerged that one may exist. Not saying thats going to happen, but I'm saying yes it is irrational and if you care about your sanity you might want to pursue that options.
I've been doing that, if you make claims, I'll feel free to refute them. Deities have already been disproven, you simply avoid the inevitable. Mark twain said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." I dont require validation because mine is validated. And not by intellectual dishonest systems such as "faith." Thanks for your time.
Sorry, Maddas. I dont flame, I do not participate in that. Logic 101? Descartes has been nailed to the wall, he had a severe mental disorder. I think, therefore I am, You do not think, therefore you are not. But nevermind. That's just a joke, Just because you believe something to be true doesnt make it true, if that were the case, this world would be a scary place. I wouldnt want to be anywhere remotely near a schizophrenic or serial killer. Think of the gruesome manifestations of that. Sounds like a good plot for a horror movie.
The universe is more than two dimensions. We do know what reality is.
There is no reason for anything to be here? Theres reasons, some we dont know yet. Yes, reality existed for infinity. Otherwise, nothing could happen. There would be no universe.
2: the state of being insubstantial or imaginary; not existing objectively or in fact [syn: irreality, reality]
Thats unrealitys definition. Yes, because most of you are christian theists. What is your deity besides some personified imagination concocted by primitives? Sure you can, if someone says "I believe in the invisible pink unicorn!" You can use logic to say: "If this unicorn otherwise known as a mythological creature was invisible, it could not be pink." Thus disproving the deity, one tiny inconsistency means non-existance. Science proves no deities, it just further expands human knowledge about nature/reality. Something existing isnt illogical, sorry.
Why cant things all be the same? In a way, they all are. But thats illogical to assume things would/should be different than the way they are now. Entropy isnt always true, entropy has an opposite thats been demonstrated in nature. Just because entropy increases in closed systems, that doesnt mean that reality is ending. Dialetical Materialism + Entropy = Forever.
If you want to worship nature, thats fine. Do you have existance without matter? No.
Water refracts light at a different angle, that doesnt mean thats a paradox and the sky is falling. So why would a parallax make you behave that way? Two is a number which is a concept which is intaniglbe but which yet exists to let us understand nature. That does not mean that numbers are without use.
Higher power? How about someone stronger than you? I think the concept if rediculous. I dont care about protecting everyone and creating utopia, because I know that due to humanities ignorance those goals are indeed impossible, but it would atleast help the world somewhat if we were a bit more rational. If we truly believed in cause and effect we might look at things again with more veracity. There are no deities, only nature/reality. Science is a human construct, a candle in the darkness, if you will. There was a time when religion ruled the world, the dark ages.
"What if" is never a reasonable explanation. Sorry.
And think about this, your pascals wager is a double edged sword. There are an infinite number of hypothetical deities which means that you have a 1/x=amount of deities chance of picking the correct one and ending up in heaven. Perhaps the real deity doesnt have a heaven or hell. Still, You're playing the theological lottery. And if you've ever played the lottery, you'd know you're going to lose.
What would we lose? Perhaps there actually is an all-loving god who doesnt punish people for being logical. Ever hear of Atheos? That deity rewards skepticism. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just open their minds up a bit.
Please, demonstrate that evil is objective and that this supernatural entity known as "satan" exists. Most of those children dont believe in Yahweh, they believe in other deities.
I believe in life *before* death, and I dont believe in some spooky place existing in some spiritual realm where people who think are punished for eternity, its just laughable to me. But, I realize that you actually believe that, which is fine.
I'm not going to be happy for children dying of lukemia, why would anyone in their right mind be happy for them, thats sick.
Why would "god" help? "God" never helps.
Jesus according to a 2,000 year old book rose from the dead (Dead people stay dead, so if he rose in the first place he was never actually dead, more like he was in a coma or unconscious state.) technically making him a zombie or undead. Jesus's resurrection is a myth, he died only once, just like all over organisms.
Thanks for your opinion, the bible has zero practical answers you couldnt attain elsewhere. Morals existed way before the bible, and religions existed way before the bible decided to assimilate them into its own theology. Every society has things it likes and doesnt like. There is no evidence counterwise to my position, sorry.
I'm not going to be christian because the bible has some nice stories. George Orwell has some nice stories, too. I dont see how age is relevent, but your enquiry is fine, I'm sixteen. I've no problems to talk about, other than my soundcard isnt working properly. People who become lost in their life and cant find where they were going and who go to religion for help have very little self-reliance.
I ask this.....If you were never told about god through the bible, priest, your parents ,etc. would you still believe? and why?
The way I see it is that people are taught to believe in god....it's been that way for many years. Heck back in the day you were killed if you didn't believe. So if you never ever heard about god or jesus or any of the others you would not believe.
The way I see it is that people are taught to believe in god....it's been that way for many years. Heck back in the day you were killed if you didn't believe. So if you never ever heard about god or jesus or any of the others you would not believe.
Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Jagd, It's Anarchist, not Antichrist. That does however remind me of an excerpt from a crass song: "If you dont like religion, you can be the AntiChrist, If you're tired of politics, you can be an Anarchist." It is irrational to believe in the supernatural, seeing as how nothing outside of nature has ever been discovered; and for a good reason: It doesnt exist. Material: N. Derived from or composed of matter; "The material universe." Material just means real.
billybob: waves aren't "real"? your feelings aren't real? thought? nothing outside "nature" has ever been discovered? you've obviously never discussed anti-matter with a snail.
Thank you for offering your opinion about your friends. I dont see the relevency of that. Just because you perceive them as intelligent, that doesnt negate the fact that they have a mental disorder caused by faulty logic. I've spoken to lots of theists who claimed to have God reveal himself to them. Sometimes Yahweh, sometimes Allah; I speak to different theists on a daily basis. Needless to say, all stories are redundant and inane. Please tell me however: "I saw The Lord God manifest himself in my taco", or "God revealed himself to me but I cant prove it to you, just please believe me, why not, I mean, please?"
billybob: believing or not does not change the ultimate, unattainable truth. you simply cannot disprove god's existance. it is always infinity plus one.
No, I will not accept the testimony of man. Because man tends to lie, or spread dis or misinformation. Through their ignorance of natural phenomenon and other mechanisms of reality, they falsely attribute their misunderstanding to some deity that whisks away the truth. Its not that I'm closed off to possibilities, I'm extremely open to them. But opinions in theological matters dont change my mind because they are subjective in a field where they really need to be objective, but never will be. Proof changes my mind, however opions dont.
billybob: and yet you use the testimony of others to base your beliefs. have you personally performed all the scientific experiments and measurements you believe to be true? how do you measure the speed of time?
No, Seekerof. The definition of Nature & Reality do not include any deities, therefore I didnt have to modify the definition to exclude them. "God" is beyond mere definition? Then by your own admission you have no idea what you're talking about, furthermore you have no clue as to what you worship. The thing is, Deities do have definitions whether you fail to acknowledge them or not. No, once again you make a fallacy. No proof exists that proves the existance of deities or supernatural phenomenon.
billybob: words are weak when discussing the fabric, reason and dimesions of reality.
I'd like to take this moment to give you a thumbs up at your use of italics and bold. Yes, possessing logic tends to make a person logical. I have opinions, but for the most part they stay in the areas of politics and philosophy. I do not make illogical claims, or use opions to objectively verify and dismiss other peoples subjective claims.
billybob: all "proofs" are based on "assumptions". the first being the assumption that your senses aren't lying to you.
Yes, even your "God" is a deity. No matter how you define it. Sorry. I'm creating the red herring? Please pay attention, I was merely stating if there was a deity in existance that was all-loving and knew the pains of being a man and also possessed the illogical and non-existant power of omnipotence that that deity would help the humans he created, knowing their troubles beforehand, so they would not need to suffer pointlessly. The thing is, there is suffering. So if there was a deity in existance, it didnt want to bother itself with the problem of preventing a few thousand children from dying. Not that I'm judging your deity, I just think I could do better than that. I'm not saying I'm more moral, though. Just thinking about it. As you stated earlier, you know absolutely nothing about the concept of your "God." You're speculations arise from some holy book, I suppose... Have you ever read that book all the way through?
billybob: we are insects. so prideful of our intellect. so lost.
no pain, no gain.
KJV James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
billybob: so maybe 3D is a prison for crazy souls then, yeah?
KJV Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
billybob: kill me first. i want out.
KJV 2 Kings 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
billybob: that's known as follicly challenged now.
KJV 2 Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
billybob: forty two IS the answer.
KJV Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
billybob: but then Mothra responded with a blast of radioactive breath, saving the day on monster island.
Sure, according to the bible, the concept of "God" controls events, and peoples actions, and deeds. Baawas rule of biblical debate: For every verse, there is an equal, but opposite verse. The bible is laughable like that. But please remember this: Christians do not have faith in "God" so much as they have GREATER faith in the people who told them which god to worship, and ultimately -supreme- faith in thier ability to choose the correct god, and to correctly interpret that god. Christians, in reality, worship nobody but themselves.
billybob: according to the bible, we have free will. that is contradictory to complete control. i agree, there is alot of contradiction in the bible. it suffers from too many chefs. it's a swiss cheese of editing.
Well, if you believe some other deity than whats in the bible, I wonder how you know so much about "God," It would be nice if you admitted you knew absolutely nothing about this concept at which you consistently talk about, which is strange. But, what you say is true, however "God" is nowhere to be found. Cause and effect, people create most of their own problems, and they will be the source of most of mine for the rest of my life.
billybob: if you want to know god, you must be willing to look and listen. you are not. you have already deciced what is real and true, and what is just horsefeathers. a crowning acheivement for a sixteen year old.
I'm denying that if a "God" existed who loved us, he would love us enough to stop us from suffering. Being as to how some parts of the bible talk about "God" being omniscient and "God" creating people and knowing everything about them, what mistakes they'll committ, which place they'll end up in when they die: "Heaven" or "Hell." Notice that there aren't any actual pictures of those places, only artists conceptions of "Heaven" or "Hell"?
billybob: cameras tend to melt in hell. people take pictures in heaven, but don't want to leave to have them developed. people often make the mistake of extrapolating their value system into god's. we are dust.
No, Your deity is limited too because it cannot do the impossible, meaning your deity is bound by logic. I say thats disinformation trickled down to ordinary people as misinformation whom are too ignorant to realize it. There are solutions to every problem, most aren't realistic because humans have become complacent and docile.
billybob: you are building your own logic traps and cages. it is always possible to imagine an opposite. imagination is where all great concepts and realizations come from. it could ALL be disinfo.
A "fact" is something which has been proven, not through subjectivity, rather objectivity.
billybob: an experiment can yield the same results millions of times. that does not mean that the next time will yield the same results. it is an assumption to claim ANYTHING as a hardened "fact". we are slaves to our perception.
No, no deities will reveal themselves to me. You dont have to avoid something which isnt there. Just a logical explanation, sometimes when I was earlier and frightened of the dark for illogical reasons, I thought "I enjoy the dark, because it hides what could so easily be there in the light." And it has not since bothered me.
billybob: perhaps you have not yet sensed the elephant in the room.
I use logic, science, philosophy, studied theology and a matter of things to disprove deities.
billybob: the observer effect, you seek to disprove, that is what you observe. however, once again, you cannot prove or disprove the existance of god(s).
Since believing in deities is irrational, it would be rational to disbelieve all of them until evidence emerged that one may exist. Not saying thats going to happen, but I'm saying yes it is irrational and if you care about your sanity you might want to pursue that options.
billybob: statistically speaking, you're in a small minority. that makes you "abnormal" mentally.
I've been doing that, if you make claims, I'll feel free to refute them. Deities have already been disproven, you simply avoid the inevitable. Mark twain said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." I dont require validation because mine is validated. And not by intellectual dishonest systems such as "faith." Thanks for your time.
billybob: mark twain was wrong. faith is KNOWING what you know ain't so.
Just because you believe something to be true doesnt make it true, if that were the case, this world would be a scary place.
billybob: apply to self.
The universe is more than two dimensions. We do know what reality is.
billybob: HAHAHAHA!!!!
2: the state of being insubstantial or imaginary; not existing objectively or in fact [syn: irreality, reality]
Thats unrealitys definition. Yes, because most of you are christian theists. What is your deity besides some personified imagination concocted by primitives? Sure you can, if someone says "I believe in the invisible pink unicorn!" You can use logic to say: "If this unicorn otherwise known as a mythological creature was invisible, it could not be pink." Thus disproving the deity, one tiny inconsistency means non-existance. Science proves no deities, it just further expands human knowledge about nature/reality. Something existing isnt illogical, sorry.
billybob: it could be a higher harmonic of pink. invisible to humans, yet pink to those who exist in the higher vibrational realm.
If you want to worship nature, thats fine. Do you have existance without matter? No.
billybob: another assumption based on observation. this cannot be known by us here..
Water refracts light at a different angle, that doesnt mean thats a paradox and the sky is falling. So why would a parallax make you behave that way? Two is a number which is a concept which is intaniglbe but which yet exists to let us understand nature. That does not mean that numbers are without use.
billybob: huh?
There are an infinite number of hypothetical deities which means that you have a 1/x=amount of deities chance of picking the correct one and ending up in heaven. Perhaps the real deity doesnt have a heaven or hell. Still, You're playing the theological lottery. And if you've ever played the lottery, you'd know you're going to lose.
billybob: and you put the cart before the horse. it's all just a dream, man.
What would we lose? Perhaps there actually is an all-loving god who doesnt punish people for being logical. Ever hear of Atheos? That deity rewards skepticism. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just open their minds up a bit.
billybob: so would you say that Atheos is your god?
Please, demonstrate that evil is objective and that this supernatural entity known as "satan" exists. Most of those children dont believe in Yahweh, they believe in other deities.
I believe in life *before* death, and I dont believe in some spooky place existing in some spiritual realm where people who think are punished for eternity, its just laughable to me. But, I realize that you actually believe that, which is fine.
billybob: a very narrow scope on what others believe. what i believe changes by the minute.
I'm not going to be happy for children dying of lukemia, why would anyone in their right mind be happy for them, thats sick.
billybob: dis-ease is one of the teaching tools employed by the higher ups.
Why would "god" help? "God" never helps.
billybob: oops, now you really made him/her/it/they mad.
Jesus according to a 2,000 year old book rose from the dead (Dead people stay dead, so if he rose in the first place he was never actually dead, more like he was in a coma or unconscious state.) technically making him a zombie or undead. Jesus's resurrection is a myth, he died only once, just like all over organisms.
billybob: so sure of yourself. anything is possible. anything.
I'm not going to be christian because the bible has some nice stories. George Orwell has some nice stories, too. I dont see how age is relevent, but your enquiry is fine, I'm sixteen. I've no problems to talk about, other than my soundcard isnt working properly. People who become lost in their life and cant find where they were going and who go to religion for help have very little self-reliance.
billybob: your very sharp for a sixteen year old. don't let pride of intellect blind you to the possibilities of higher reality. to a can of paint, WE are the unknowable unimaginable gods. we are cans of paint to god. or "straw dogs" to use a taoist term.
As I said when the topic was made....you are of your firm opinion, idea, thought, and belief, and no matter how many answers given, you will continue
to believe as you did when you made the post. Your motives are exposed and from reading all your posts made in the Religion & Spiritualism Forum,
they only further my belief of your reasons and motivations.
I wish you much luck, cause, honestly, your going to need it.
regards
seekerof
I wish you much luck, cause, honestly, your going to need it.
regards
seekerof
Do you have to reply inside of a quote, its difficult to read. Its like adding your own words into someone elses words, its not right. Sigh, I'll
take a stab at this. When did I claim that waves arent real, or feelings arent real or thoughts arent real? I've never said anything like that, no
nothing exists outside of nature.
All deities have been disproven already. I dont base my beliefs in other peoples testimony. There is no speed of time. Reality exists, no matter how you describe it.
We have ways of demonstrating that our senses arent lying to us. You sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. We are mammals, not insects. We have lots of reasons to be proud of our intelligence. We're not lost, and no pain no gain is pretty faulty.
You're making absolutely no sense with your incoherent rant.
Yes, religion is rediculous. Even the original bibles are full of contradictions, the ones in greek and hebrew, they are no better. I've been looking and listening, I have opened myself up to the possibility that they might exist, but to date nothing has occured, just another peice in my research against theology. If theology is a practice, so should Atheology.
Hell tends not to exist within the realm of reality. Yes, you just made a claim that makes you look insane. Yes, it could all be disinfo, but most of it isnt. The past can help us predict the future, We arent slaves to perception, we are slaves to governments and theism. We're learning to understand nature and everything about it, there is alot to know. There is no elephant in the room, no I dont sense things that arent there, thats what theists do, they have a mental disorder.
Deities have been disproven already. Yes, I'm abnormal, but that doesnt effect my sanity. However, you are delusional seeing as how you believe irrational things in spite of invalidating evidence which isnt as abnormal as a freethinker using his noggin'. Nah, Its believing what you know aint so.
You laugh instead of address my point? We have conclusively proven over two dimensions.
No, billybob. Invisible means what it means, without color. Sigh.
Yes, cart before the horse. It wouldnt be that efficient the other way around. No, Atheos is not my deity, I have none. It changes by the minute, thats called inconsistency. Anything possible is possible, sure its tautology, but its right. There is no higher reality, just reality. Okay, I'm doubting your sanity.
Seekerof, please be realistic, no answers are being given to my questions, no reasonable explanation begins with "What if." Alright?
You try too hard to be insulting through condescension, it doesnt suit you.
All deities have been disproven already. I dont base my beliefs in other peoples testimony. There is no speed of time. Reality exists, no matter how you describe it.
We have ways of demonstrating that our senses arent lying to us. You sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. We are mammals, not insects. We have lots of reasons to be proud of our intelligence. We're not lost, and no pain no gain is pretty faulty.
You're making absolutely no sense with your incoherent rant.
Yes, religion is rediculous. Even the original bibles are full of contradictions, the ones in greek and hebrew, they are no better. I've been looking and listening, I have opened myself up to the possibility that they might exist, but to date nothing has occured, just another peice in my research against theology. If theology is a practice, so should Atheology.
Hell tends not to exist within the realm of reality. Yes, you just made a claim that makes you look insane. Yes, it could all be disinfo, but most of it isnt. The past can help us predict the future, We arent slaves to perception, we are slaves to governments and theism. We're learning to understand nature and everything about it, there is alot to know. There is no elephant in the room, no I dont sense things that arent there, thats what theists do, they have a mental disorder.
Deities have been disproven already. Yes, I'm abnormal, but that doesnt effect my sanity. However, you are delusional seeing as how you believe irrational things in spite of invalidating evidence which isnt as abnormal as a freethinker using his noggin'. Nah, Its believing what you know aint so.
You laugh instead of address my point? We have conclusively proven over two dimensions.
No, billybob. Invisible means what it means, without color. Sigh.
Yes, cart before the horse. It wouldnt be that efficient the other way around. No, Atheos is not my deity, I have none. It changes by the minute, thats called inconsistency. Anything possible is possible, sure its tautology, but its right. There is no higher reality, just reality. Okay, I'm doubting your sanity.
Seekerof, please be realistic, no answers are being given to my questions, no reasonable explanation begins with "What if." Alright?
You try too hard to be insulting through condescension, it doesnt suit you.
Okay, so according to ACS,
Things such as near death experiences or out of body experiences don't exist because they are not physical.
Things such as near death experiences or out of body experiences don't exist because they are not physical.
So what have we learned? After being sliced and diced by facts, honest logic and straight forward reasoning, theists will always take refuge in what
truly motivates them.
Minus the threat of severe penalty, how many theists would there be? Answer = very few. You people are afraid and that's ok. Just try to open your minds and hearts to soeone who is not (AnarchistSuperstar for example). It must be horrible having to live life in such fear of what might happen if you disobey something that cannot even be proven to exist.
In peace,
fixx
When you die, God might denie your existance.
I wish you much luck, cause, honestly, your going to need it.
If you disbelieve this, you are, in effect, calling God a liar---not matter how "good" you are, this affront will bar you from the Kingdom of Heaven.
What would yu do if Jesus did show up? Say, "Oh, wait, um, I made a mistake. Gimme a chance. C'mon, man!"
Minus the threat of severe penalty, how many theists would there be? Answer = very few. You people are afraid and that's ok. Just try to open your minds and hearts to soeone who is not (AnarchistSuperstar for example). It must be horrible having to live life in such fear of what might happen if you disobey something that cannot even be proven to exist.
In peace,
fixx
Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
Do you have to reply inside of a quote, its difficult to read. Its like adding your own words into someone elses words, its not right. Sigh, I'll take a stab at this. When did I claim that waves arent real, or feelings arent real or thoughts arent real? I've never said anything like that, no nothing exists outside of nature.
All deities have been disproven already. I dont base my beliefs in other peoples testimony. There is no speed of time. Reality exists, no matter how you describe it.
We have ways of demonstrating that our senses arent lying to us. You sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. We are mammals, not insects. We have lots of reasons to be proud of our intelligence. We're not lost, and no pain no gain is pretty faulty.
You're making absolutely no sense with your incoherent rant.
Yes, religion is rediculous. Even the original bibles are full of contradictions, the ones in greek and hebrew, they are no better. I've been looking and listening, I have opened myself up to the possibility that they might exist, but to date nothing has occured, just another peice in my research against theology. If theology is a practice, so should Atheology.
Hell tends not to exist within the realm of reality. Yes, you just made a claim that makes you look insane. Yes, it could all be disinfo, but most of it isnt. The past can help us predict the future, We arent slaves to perception, we are slaves to governments and theism. We're learning to understand nature and everything about it, there is alot to know. There is no elephant in the room, no I dont sense things that arent there, thats what theists do, they have a mental disorder.
Deities have been disproven already. Yes, I'm abnormal, but that doesnt effect my sanity. However, you are delusional seeing as how you believe irrational things in spite of invalidating evidence which isnt as abnormal as a freethinker using his noggin'. Nah, Its believing what you know aint so.
You laugh instead of address my point? We have conclusively proven over two dimensions.
No, billybob. Invisible means what it means, without color. Sigh.
Yes, cart before the horse. It wouldnt be that efficient the other way around. No, Atheos is not my deity, I have none. It changes by the minute, thats called inconsistency. Anything possible is possible, sure its tautology, but its right. There is no higher reality, just reality. Okay, I'm doubting your sanity.
Seekerof, please be realistic, no answers are being given to my questions, no reasonable explanation begins with "What if." Alright?
You try too hard to be insulting through condescension, it doesnt suit you.
First off, you critique of my writing style is just amazing....amounts to evasiveness and further ramblings.
Anarchist..you have disproven nothing. Let me say that again for you....you have DISPROVEN nothing! Your denial of and further claims of "deities", as in relation to surnaming God, is quite literally unfounded, nor empirical. You have only proven what you believe, and that is simply the fact.
As to me making "no sense with my incoherent rant"....well, that was good and funny, but really and truthfully and more so, to the point of truth, you need to get up and go to the nearest mirror and look at yourself. If I am not mistaken, your comments and opinions no more amounted to intellectual knowing but were quite literally of "no sense" which amounted to "incoherent rant". Do you, again, presume to know more than science? Anarchist, science cannot even disprove the existence of God, no more than it could prove it. And yet, behold, the "mighty Anarchist" comes along and he can do what science can't..........more incoherent ramblings of an otherwise intelligent individual.
Talk about delusional.........you must have some seriously broken mirrors in your house, eh? I, indeed, laugh, and will continue to do so respectfully. Bet on it.
regards
seekerof
[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Seekerof]
Near death experience and out of body experiences exist, they are mental, being linked to phenemenon in the brain. Search CNN for "Out of body
experience," and get into the field of biopsychology and neurolinguistics, its interesting stuff.
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