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A tactical and legal analysis of the Kenosha shootings

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(post by Ththema removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)
(post by Ththema removed for political trolling and baiting)

posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: Ththema

you do realize that shamrock is a cop don't you? it's well known on ats, pretty sure he knows more about the law than you,

some pretend armchair key board in your momma's basment wanna be lawyer.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: Ththema

You’re right, I did. I posted the first part of the statute, which says there is no duty to retreat whatsoever. Then I posted another part of the statute that says if a person provokes an attack through criminal behavior and then attempts to flee, they’re entitled to claim self defense after coming to a point of reasonably believing they have no further avenue to disengage.

For somebody who wants to argue law, you aren’t very good at reading it much less understanding it.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Ththema

You’re right, I did. I posted the first part of the statute, which says there is no duty to retreat whatsoever. Then I posted another part of the statute that says if a person provokes an attack through criminal behavior and then attempts to flee, they’re entitled to claim self defense after coming to a point of reasonably believing they have no further avenue to disengage.

For somebody who wants to argue law, you aren’t very good at reading it much less understanding it.


This guy is not a cop.

You literally purposefully misrepresented a Wisconsin statute that reflects EVERY OTHER SELF DEFENSE STATUTE IN THE UNITED STATES, by copying and pasting the first part of the Castle Doctrine without the CONDITIONAL measures

You're either lying, or completely unable to read law statutes. Not a cop.

Here's the full statute that Shamrock misrepresented.

the court may not consider whether the actor had an opportunity to flee or retreat before he or she used force ....

IF... either of the following applies:
1. The person against whom the force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor's dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, the actor was present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or reasonably believed that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring.
2. The person against whom the force was used was in the actor's dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business after unlawfully and forcibly entering it, the actor was present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or reasonably believed that the person had unlawfully and forcibly entered the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Ththema

you do realize that shamrock is a cop don't you? it's well known on ats, pretty sure he knows more about the law than you,

some pretend armchair key board in your momma's basment wanna be lawyer.



This dude's most certainly not a cop. I come from a law enforcement family. My uncle was on Daley's security detail for decades.

Cops know at least how to read a simple statute.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: Ththema
Wow just wow..I'm not going to say anymore and get the hammer

YOU ARE WRONG




posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Ththema
Wow just wow..I'm not going to say anymore and get the hammer

YOU ARE WRONG



Use of force laws are week one at the academy. Every cop knows basic self defense law.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: Ththema

I literally did not.

Actual code title:


939.48  Self-defense and defense of others.


Not “castle doctrine.” Defense of one’s home, business, vehicle, etc., is a subsection. The initial quote I provided establishes that there is no statutory duty to retreat in state law when it comes to self defense and indeed the court is explicitly prohibited from even raising the question of retreat in certain circumstances.

The second quote provided established that even if one provokes an attack, if one makes an effort to retreat until it’s a reasonable belief that retreat is no longer an option, one regains the ability to legally claim self defense.

States with a duty to retreat law are by far the minority, so continuing to claim that a legal requirement to retreat is somehow the norm is as false as everything else you’ve claimed.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:54 PM
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But my uncles cousins brothers nieces nephews sister once knew someone to thought they saw a cop once.

I know better than all you guys do!

On a serious note...what kind of person does it take to knowingly charge and attack someone holding a weapon at the low ready? Seems like someone with not a lot of brain cells to rub together really.

This whole situation all over the country is so out of control that the only logical conclusion will be all out warfare between the anarchists and the law abiding citizens. Pretty sure there are a lot more law abiding citizens with guns than the other way around so good luck with that ya wackjobs.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: Ththema

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Ththema
Wow just wow..I'm not going to say anymore and get the hammer

YOU ARE WRONG



Use of force laws are week one at the academy. Every cop knows basic self defense law.

He's a cop..most here know it..get over your arrogance



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: Ththema

what ever, you can lead the ignant to water but you can't make them drink. you got no clue,armchair wanna be.


edit on 30-8-2020 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: Ththema




LOL. The kids on video murdering several unarmed people. You think he's going to walk because your favorite YouTuber told you so?

HAHAHAHA


These people are going to be in for a rude awakening.
I live in Wisconsin and it's not going to end well for this kid.

From what I've read on local news pretty much everyone is against him.
Judge - appointed by a Democrat

www.cnn.com...


In a news conference following the shooting, Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said he had received requests from community members to deputize citizens to aid police in responding to the protests.
"What happened last night [...] was probably the perfect reason why I wouldn't,"


The people that died fighting Kyle are being called Heros that have saved others lives.

But let these people live in their delusions while they have them...



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 01:58 PM
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The people that died fighting Kyle are being called Heros that have saved others lives.

But let these people live in their delusions while they have them..
a reply to: JAGStorm


Thats as delusional as it gets.

edit on 30-8-2020 by vonclod because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: vonclod




Thats as delusional as it gets.


Call it what you want, that is reality.

Who did Kyle shoot




His friends say he volunteered as a medic for Black Lives Matter protests in Milwaukee this summer. Witnesses saw Grosskreutz volunteering the night he was shot.

One of those bullets hit Grosskreutz in the arm. Lourie said he saw Grosskreutz was carrying a gun. He also saw he was volunteering as a medic earlier that night.


That's right, a REAL medic!



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: Ththema

Use of force law is typically starts more towards the end of phase one/module one/whatever it’s called in your area’s training system, actually.

Not being a cop but knowing cops, one would think you’d know that.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: JAGStorm


The people that died fighting Kyle are being called Heros that have saved others lives.



there you go for for some sad azz reverse psychology, the left calling a bunch of convicted violent felons heroes for trying to attack a kid. one of them a convicted pedo that was on permanent registered sex offender list. who were out inciting violence and destruction.

classic libtard.
edit on 30-8-2020 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: JAGStorm

A real medic on camera armed and not asking if anybody needs medical attention after learning somebody had been shot but instead chasing somebody down?

A REAL medic indeed



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Ththema

I literally did not.

Actual code title:


939.48  Self-defense and defense of others.


Not “castle doctrine.” Defense of one’s home, business, vehicle, etc., is a subsection. The initial quote I provided establishes that there is no statutory duty to retreat in state law when it comes to self defense and indeed the court is explicitly prohibited from even raising the question of retreat in certain circumstances.

The second quote provided established that even if one provokes an attack, if one makes an effort to retreat until it’s a reasonable belief that retreat is no longer an option, one regains the ability to legally claim self defense.

States with a duty to retreat law are by far the minority, so continuing to claim that a legal requirement to retreat is somehow the norm is as false as everything else you’ve claimed.


More misinformation.

15 states impose a duty to retreat when one can do so with absolute safety: Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, and Wisconsin.

Literally nothing you've said here is remotely correct or reflects the actual law.



posted on Aug, 30 2020 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: JAGStorm


The people that died fighting Kyle are being called Heros that have saved others lives.



there you go for for some sad azz reverse psychology, the left calling a bunch of convicted violent felons heroes for trying to attack a kid. one of them a convicted pedo that was on permanent registered sex offender list. who were out inciting violence and destruction.

classic libtard.


I think the right calling a disaffected mass murderer and spree shooter a hero, is slightly more funny.

Tomato tomato



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