Top cardinal blasts di vinci code

Well SomewhereInbetween, I think it only logical that "Priory-Of-Scion.com" would bash anything bashing the priory.

As for the Code's author, well just because you do research does not mean that you can't use it to support your own ends. Evangellicals have a name for that, it's called Apologetics. Just because he did "years of research" doesn't mean that the research was any good. Look at people like Dr. Hovins on the religious right who are trying to prove that the world is only 5,000 years old. They do research, but is it unbiased? Hell no. I could read any cracked idea in a book and given enough time and resources make a reasonably good argument for it, doesn't mean I'd be right.

~Astral

I have to agree with Blackguard's assessment.

In a much simplified form here's what the modern Priory of Scion was:
And Robert Richardson's credentials are?

It seems he is being disputed for his information as well:
priory-of-sion.com...
Somewhereinbetween

Thank you for that supportive boost. I needed that. I find your posts to be very substantial, and well reasoned ones. They are not like so many of the critics and scoffers who dismiss years of research with flippant comments that have no substance, just air. I notice a common concept in their derisive posts, which is stating 'I could have done years of research, but that doesn't make it right.' and ' I bet that this never happened, or this person never said that.' These disses are of course totally vacuous.
Not a shred of credible content to even try to refute. It is just empty naysaying with zero value to me, and I am looking for answers myself. Some others appear more interested in avoiding looking for answers. They are content to do no research, instead spending their time at the easiest role of all.........the critic. Anyone can criticize. But to disprove.....that is valuable, and I welcome that. I just never see it.

Originally posted by Al Davison
as soon as I saw this topic, my first reaction was "why?"

the more I read these posts, the more I keep coming back to that same question. Why would a "Top Cardinal" even bother with this?

If one applies Occam's Razor, or gives the most credence to the most obvious, plausible reason, my conclusion is that the RCC is threatened. By a self-admitted novel, that contains, like so many others, some real dates, events, places, and names, etc. So, if the author published it under the category of fiction.......and the RCC is bothering with it, dragging the Inquisition out of the mothballs even, the clear conclusion is that they are at least admitting the 'possibility' that this info. recounted in a novel, has enough sources and documented evidence to support it, that it is a genuine threat. If it was just another dimestore paperback proclaiming the Church is the devil, or the pope is a space alien, they would not send out the head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, which is their threat dissolution division.
If some other, more obvious and plausible reason for their 'big guns' defense against fiction can be offered, please let me know.
Oh yeah, to all the critics who say this is all based on recent, forged and planted hoax material, what is your view on the goings on in France, by Berenger Sauniere after he became the parish priest at Rennes Les Chateaux? Please explain what happened there if the current conclusions are all hooey.

Ugh, I give up it's not worth it, believe whatever makes you feel good people! Apparently doing your homework before you speak is now optional regarding theological matters.

Blackguard, refer to my previous posts to answer your questions. Yes I'm going to make you look for it, but it's only a page and a half.

If you want me, I'll be in the library reading up on what is really going on.

Blessed Be
~Astral

[edit on 3/16/2005 by The Astral City]

Originally posted by The Astral City
Well SomewhereInbetween, I think it only logical that "Priory-Of-Scion.com" would bash anything bashing the priory.

Without having visited the site, I have no idea to what organization you refer, nor do I care. For had they been one of value, my own research on matters biblical would have tripped across them.

Aas I have already stated, we know little of the Templars, thanks to the RCC's suppression of what went on behind closed doors. This fact alone ensures that they have much to hide. But we do know the templars were endorsed by the RCC to do their dirty work for them, then severely chastised and told to tow the line when they started to practice Christianity outside of the precepts of the church, and even then they were brought back into the fold later so that the RCC could carry out their little crusades against everyone they declared the enemy, including the Jews.

As for the Code's author, well just because you do research does not mean that you can't use it to support your own ends. Evangellicals have a name for that, it's called Apologetics.

So everyone that does research not fitting your agenda or that of the Evangelicals are apologetics? Is this how how it works for you really? I don't recall anywhere where god in fact granted the gift of virtuosity, intelligence and his divine inspiration to anyone, do you?

Just because he did "years of research" doesn't mean that the research was any good.

I do not disagree. At the same token it does not make your gnosis magazine author anymore capable than he, nor this cardinal, nor you. Objectivity and a search for knowledge is key to learning, and suppression is key to controlling that knowledge and learning, where the latter is exactly what this cardinal, the authors you quote and you, are tryng to do. You give the impression that everyone who does not think as you do is stupid. Yet you have seen the responses in this thread, Brown's book was accepted as fiction based on myth. This is not the 5th century, we are not kept ignorant and servile unless we choose to be.


You are welcome Blackguard, and thank you.

Originally posted by The Astral City
Ugh, I give up it's not worth it, believe whatever makes you feel good people! Apparently doing your homework before you speak is now optional regarding theological matters.

Blackguard, refer to my previous posts to answer your questions. Yes I'm going to make you look for it, but it's only a page and a half.

If you want me, I'll be in the library reading up on what is really going on.

Blessed Be
~Astral
[edit on 3/16/2005 by The Astral City]

I have read literally dozens of books on the Templars, dozens more on the Holy land crusades, more on the crusades that swept thru Europe, dozens on the Holy bloodlines theory, dozens on the Scotland/France Mason/Templar link theory, many about the theories on who built the Nova Scotia castle, and engineered the Oak Island pit, many more on the Sinclairs of Roslyn, and esp. the chapel, which proves carved into stone that Henry Sinclair was on Turtle Island long before Chris Columbus or Giovanni Caboto... Books that focused on the Egyptian/Sumerian/Hebrew historical discrepancies and theories that answered them, and dozens on the Shroud of Turin, dozens of books about the founding of America, and the pre columbus visitors, like the builders of the Newport Tower, and the Vikings who in the 13th century were living in Labrador. Books about the Ark of the Covenant, Solomon and Sheba, and the African Jewish Temple.
And books about the strange secret find that was such a financial windfall to Sauniere at Rennes Les Chateaux. And about Robert Bruce, and Bannockburn, and Roger Bellechance, and the Templar fleet.
I see a thread running through all these hundreds of books content. It is one little segment of a much longer thread which many, many other books I have read propose.
I may be dead wrong, but then at least I am a very well informed wrong person. That is more important to me than being right. I'd rather feel like I looked at all the sides, and made my best guess, and if wrong, so be it.
No problem. Glad to hear it.
Good idea. The library is exactly where to go. Sure the odd tidbit of sense is online, the ol needle in the haystack, but the hundreds of books you can read on these subjects will ready you for the time when you can offer some real tough rebuttals, that would teach me something new, or change my decisions on what has gone on.

And as per the Templars, I will only say that I do not agree with much of the -ve claims about them. Many were killed by the Inquisitors, Provence was a Templar stronghold. Also, in the crusades, they were one of two orders of knights the enemy would sign a treaty with, cuz the rest of the orders, kings, nations, etc. were dishonorable. I feel the reputation of the Templars has been sullied much the same as Mary Magdalenes has.



[edit on 3/16/2005 by BlackGuardXIII]

If you're looking for something to rebel against choose a real threat, not this one, it is stupid once you've read up on it.

As for me, I'm not an evangelical, haha quite the opposite in fact (I'm a Zenist,) evangelicals USE apologetics to preach their twisted version of Christianity, but I'm sure you came across that in your readings...

Also, I'm done on this thread after this post, period. Any attacks you want to level against me feel fully free to do so. At this point, I really just don't care anymore, I'll go back to debating issues such as these in a university setting. If you want to continue the debate, please enroll at the University Of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and seek me out.

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral

Originally posted by The Astral City
If you're looking for something to rebel against choose a real threat, not this one, it is stupid once you've read up on it.

I suspect you must be having conversations with yourself, because that makes no sense at all. As for stupid? Yes, the Cardinal's apology was stupid, along with trying to support him.

As for me, I'm not an evangelical, haha quite the opposite in fact (I'm a Zenist,) evangelicals USE apologetics to preach their twisted version of Christianity, but I'm sure you came across that in your readings...

Confusion reigns in your posts.

Also, I'm done on this thread after this post, period. Any attacks you want to level against me feel fully free to do so. At this point, I really just don't care anymore,...

I see, you attack Brown and anyone who dares defend his right to fiction is attacking you. Can you say trite?

I'll go back to debating issues such as these in a university setting. If you want to continue the debate, please enroll at the University Of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and seek me out.

Ah, an amateur. And the university of Wisconsin is supposed to be of some significance to me? Check my earlier posts, you will find I cut my teeth at Oxford.

May Peace Travel With You

And may you find it.

Fiction.

The book is fiction.

What dont some people get about that?

I havent seen this sort of religous nuttery about a work of fiction since Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses".

Religion - and Catholisim in particular - has much bigger fish to fry than a work of fiction that paints them in a poor light. How about all the NON-fiction books that paint them in a poor light and are true?

It is just a novel. Get over it.

Well, for my two cents. I dont think the Cardinal is purposely lying about his views. I think that this knowledge was hid in the Vatican library so long ago, and its knowledge was never passed and it was just forgotten on purpose. I doubt the Pope even knows.

Okay. Now I am going to take the rest of my change and buy a Sobe. Thank you.

I think that not only do Christians & Catholics need to speak out against the book but also conspiracy theorists in general - Simply because there are so many people who do no know the book is fiction. I run into people all the time who believe it 100%. It is basically a book version of the Blair Witch movie. It is often falsely portrayed as real and accurate for the purposes of book sales when the material isn't even close to facts. This process shows that faith really works both ways. There are certain types of people who will bash people who read and believe the Bible because they didn’t do any fact checking, but it is my experience that those same people are very likely to read the Di Vinci Code and except it as truth without doing any simple fact checking. I guarantee that sometime in the next month I will meet and talk to at least one person who believes the Di Vinci Code and has no idea that it is fiction. And when I tell them it is a book of fiction they will get mad.



[edit on 17-3-2005 by zerotime]

some fact,some legend, some made up by the writer. HMMMMMMMMM
sounds like the bible.

"It has served us well, this myth of Christ Pope Leo X

Originally posted by zerotime
...Simply because there are so many people who do no know the book is fiction...

Anybody who doesnt realize that a novel is, by definition "Fiction" isnt the sort of person that we should be concerned about.

Call me elitist if you like, but anybody that dumb doesnt have an opinion worth considering. Who cares what the truly ignorant have to say? (Except when they get together in clumps to vote!)

We should not contemplate trying to satisfy the lowest common demoninator when it comes to art, literature, politics or economics.

Anyone lacking the common sense to realize what "fiction" means, does not have an opinion worth considering.

I doubt many have even read it.