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Solar storm headed for earth could cause black-outs

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posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 12:03 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




I was not aware the magnetic field of the earth twerked. Can you provide some evidence of that claim?

The word I used was "wiggle."
Geomagnetic Storm

You may want to look into magnetometer records from various locations during geomagnetic storming events. The field "wiggles" a lot. Particularly at high latitudes.

edit on 8/24/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Phage


The word I used was "wiggle."

I know. But I like twerking... well, sometimes...

The fluctuations you speak of are very low frequency and do not therefore induce an appreciable current via induction. The current produced is a function of the derivative of magnetic flux with respect to time. Over long periods, the negligible almost-DC component it produces in power lines probably contributes to transformer failure, but only in a minimal way.

Likewise, a geomagnetic storm changes magnetic strength/polarity far too slow to induce any appreciable current in power transmission lines. Earth-bound EMPs of sufficient magnitude might do so, but only if they were a very fast pulse (like that emitted during a nuclear explosion or from specialized electronic equipment).

In fact, a geomagnetic storm is an EMP so far as any conductors see... it is a single pulse, but with a very long duration that minimizes its inductive impact.

Power lines are generally shielded fairly well from solar phenomena under normal circumstances by the magnetosphere. The solar wind may change the shape of the magnetosphere, but the effect close to ground is quite minimal with the exception of auroras around the magnetic poles. The major concern about CMEs from a technological perspective is disruption of communication when the ionosphere absorbs the ionic components of the CME and changes the voltage gradients.

And satellites, of course. They are above the magnetosphere.

TheRedneck.

edit on 8/24/2020 by TheRedneck because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 12:44 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




The fluctuations you speak of are very low frequency and do not therefore induce an appreciable current via induction.

Estimates vary and are often expressed in voltage/mile of conductor rather than current. Depending on the length and orientation of the conductor, and the strength of the variation, it can amount to several hundred volts over a long run. Quite enough "push" to burn a telegraph line.


Over long periods, the negligible almost-DC component it produces in power lines probably contributes to transformer failure, but only in a minimal way.
Actually it is the primary failure mode. The (effective) DC current doesn't play well with the AC current within the system. It creates eddy currents, a problem (See Quebec, 1989). Simply shutting the system down for the duration of the event has been suggested as a mitigation measure in order to avoid this.
electrical-engineering-portal.com...


In fact, a geomagnetic storm is an EMP so far as any conductors see... it is a single pulse
No, it is a very low frequency induced current effect which can last for hours. It is similar, however, to the "heave" cycle of a nuclear EMP event, though again, of longer duration. It is the initial pulse produced by a nuclear blast which can destroy electronics, even though not connected to the grid.



Power lines are generally shielded fairly well from solar phenomena under normal circumstances by the magnetosphere.
Unless the magnetosphere itself starts to wiggle too much. And that's the problem.

edit on 8/24/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 12:46 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: SeaWorthy




I recommend the quick few mins in the morning


I try to believe 6 impossible things before breakfast.

(Look it up)

You do remind me a little of Alice.



posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: Phage


Estimates vary and are often expressed in voltage/mile of conductor rather than current.

Yes, but the best realistic estimates are quite small for today's power transmission lines. AC power travels only a relatively short distance before transformers are used to couple runs. Since transformers cannot pass DC power, they effectively isolate the effect of CMEs to short distances.

The intensity of even an above average geomagnetic storm is at maximum during the initial phase, when magnetic intensity can spike the quickest, and this is in the vicinity of 85 pT/s (trillionths of a Tesla per second). In comparison, the magnetic field of the earth is approximately 45 uT (millionths of a Tesla). The magnetic disturbance of a CME can have precious little effect near the earth's surface.

Voltages are used to simplify comparisons to the voltages supplied in lines. Current is actually what is induced.


Quite sufficient to burn a telegraph line.

Not the line, but the contacts. Voltage itself cannot create heat; that would be a voltage differential due to the resistance of the line combined with current flow.

A telegraph line is DC and can extend for many times as far as a power line. Transformers cannot be used on a DC line as they do not pass DC power. Thus the telegraphs that were damaged were more susceptible to voltages due to the longer lines, but also due to the DC nature of the devices (and I suspect due to a lack of safety margin for the voltages used).


Actually it is the primary failure mode.

I am quite familiar with transformer design Phage. I am designing a specialized transformer right now.

DC current in a transformer cannot produce eddy currents. AC current in the transformer can produce eddy currents that heat the cores and waste power; that is why all transformers use laminated cores. DC current induces heating in the coil, which has nothing to do with eddy currents.

Please read up on Maxwell's equations. Electrical current is produced in relation to the derivative with respect to time of the magnetic field, not by the magnetic field itself. The derivative with respect to time of a DC current and thus any DC induced magnetic field is zero.


No, it is a very low frequency induced current effect which can last for hours.

You seem to be confused as to what an EMP is. An Electro-Magnetic Pulse is a pulse in the electrical gradient of an area of space, which usually travels as a wave. In a geomagnetic storm, the initial phase is an increase in magnetic intensity of usually 20-50 nT, followed by a decrease of (usually) less than 700 nT, followed by an increase back to the normal intensity levels. The initial phase can last for several minutes; the main phase for several hours; the last phase for possibly over a day. That is not an alternating ("wiggling") magnetic field. It is a slow rise, followed by a slower fall to a minimum, followed by an even slower rise to normal levels. A pulse. It is electro-magnetic in nature. It is an Electro-Magnetic Pulse, or an EMP, that can have a period of hours or days.

It is simply not fast enough to create an appreciable inductive effect at ground level in any but the most sensitive instruments.


Unless the magnetosphere itself starts to wiggle too much. And that's the problem.

That will be one hell of a CME. You might be better off worrying about radiation burns than electrical power if that happens.

Now, you show me a CME with an initial phase of a few microseconds and you'll have a point.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: LookingAtMars

Experts in astrology?

Is the storm a Libra or a Leo?


I caught that as well. I'm an Aries...like long walks on the beach....



posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: research100



thanks for the heads up..I think you mean't ASTRONOMY (not astrology) hopefully nothing bad happens


I didn't write the story on the website, I linked to it and used their title.

Is that what you mean't.



posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: Phage



There is no animated GIF in your OP.

I never said there was.

I said:


I posted a gif of the clip with the date on it in the OP.


The time stamp on the gif will enable you to find the clip.



posted on Aug, 24 2020 @ 07:08 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: firerescue




Has happened before

Indeed.
But there has been no important CME recently and there is not much chance of severe geomagnetic storm. This week.
www.swpc.noaa.gov...
But maybe astrologers know something that solar scientists don't.

Telegraph was an electrical device, not electronic. Relatively high voltages can be produced in long conductors (like telegraph wires, and power lines, and pipelines, and fences) during geomagnetic events . This is caused by magnetic induction as the Earth's magnetic field "wiggles," It is not an EMP and can last for hours.


It's gone from no CME, to no important CME.

Why are you so prejudice against astrology. I don't really follow it but some do. I hear they can predict future events.



posted on Aug, 26 2020 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: LookingAtMars



I hear they can predict future events.

They cannot.

No geomagnetic storms forecast (by science) through Friday.
www.swpc.noaa.gov...


edit on 8/26/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2020 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: LookingAtMars
NOAA showed one on the 23, I posted a gif of the clip with the date on it in the OP.

If you watch the clip you can see the CME come from the sun at about the 8:00 position.


No CME

www.lmsal.com...
edit on 8/26/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)




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