Forgiving Others

i find it relatively easy to forgive what has been done to me, personally. . what I find really hard is to forgive what I have witnessed being done to to others. I feel, firstly, that have no right to forgive others for what was done to Others in my presence. . .yet I feel that I never, ever, want to see the Perpetrators again (my parents / others).

So what is forgiveness, really? Wiping the slate clean?? Understanding where "They" were coming from? Forgiving but not forgetting? How can I forgive or forget terrible things I have seen? And should I? Each night, these events play over in my mind & I find my body reacting with tenseness, anger & fear. Is this just the Way Things Are?

a reply to: kiro8lak

I can assure you beyond a shadow of a doubt that forgiveness is a gift and not a learned trait.

Forgiveness is a tool that those blessed with the holy spirit have the choice to excersise or not but must, usually the blessed embellished with this forgiveness are born into unfathomable family environments and circumstances deliberately so as to try to break the connection the blessed will have with the holy spirit thus returning them to the devilish world they where born into giving satan back another soul and depriving god of his attempts to claw back souls.

Those who understand their forgiving nature but do not understand why they possess this are actually on the narrow path.

Do not try to forget what you've seen but continue to excersise that forgiveness at every single visit to the memories. This is fundamentally keeping you on the narrow path.

Now forgive yourself for not complying with the t's & c's of this site by making your thread title all capitals as thats how easy in life it is to miss basic cues.

PS: when you see unsavoury behavior in others intervene if you feel you have to but do it without hurting anyone as if you do hurt others - regardless of the reasons you are being tricked into giving up that blessed connection and will be released back into satans fold.

It is very hard to stay on the narrow path - almost impossible but you have one large advantage over many worth remembering - you are on the path the majority will never ever set foot on although eventually they will wish they had.

Value you it with every fibre of your being.


Take it how you will

a reply to: kiro8lak


Great Subject!

I have pondered this quite often.

I like you, can forgive what’s been done to me, but if you hurt a child and I become aware of it, I will call it out. Let the bad ones know I see you!

If I become aware of an injustice against any kid, I will speak up.

Examples have been: Followed a dad out of after school program after he screamed at his son, and told him calmly that his son did nothing wrong, that he was a good kid. He was dropping off food for the child, I could tell he was frustrated, but this poor kids life had been hell too, and even though I knew the father was doing the best he could, he just needed that talk.

My cousins 40th birthday party celebration, pub crawl they Boston, went outside for a smoke at one place, found 3 little kids alone in cold car, one child was in car seat, all sleeping, had to be around 11:30pm. I couldn’t leave them there, so I missed the rest of celebration waiting for the parent to come outside. When he did, I told him he shouldn’t leave these kids out there alone and in the cold. He told me to mind my own business, I then told him, if you go back in that bar I’m calling the police. He went back in, I called, stupid dispatcher made me repeat problem 3 times. He finally came out after 10 more minutes and drove off, I believe he was pulled over a block away.

Forgiveness for hurting kids is up to God. I always say I don’t need to forgive certain people or situations, I only need to know, that I didn’t deserve what happened (whatever that may be), and that the perp has serious problems/mental illness/flaws, and that’s their problem, and their life sux already.

a reply to: CthruU

I think forgiveness CAN be learned, it can be trained.

More, JC was correct when he noted that revenge belongs to him.

A good thread topic here.

Forgiveness can be learned, and we can learn to abandon hatred.

a reply to: kiro8lak
The notion of forgiveness is like a mirror: we get back, what we put in.

Judging, holding others, or circumstances in "poor light, " presents that value back to you, many times over, until you change that view, by forgiving yourself and choosing to use right discrimination, to see God in everyone/thing.

Then guess what the mirror reflects?

a reply to: Salander

If only you where right what a better world we would be in.

To a point though I'd have to agree that in theory ONLY you are correct but we humans or those of us at least who are awake enough to understand realise that thinking before you speak and act especially in times of emotional turmoil is outright near impossible despite best intentions (the road to hell is paved with good intentions) if infact best intentions are even present.

Knee jerk reactions are 2nd nature and a person's nature is just that - their nature. Simply put - guilt would not exist if forgiveness could be taught as although the forgiveness is present after the fact and the reflection it needs to be at the forefront to be effective and protectatory to the individuals nature.

However I'll part in the hope your right as at least then there is promise for a greater percentage of humanity if of course they seek the ability to forgive instead of giving in to revenge.

But im no spring chicken - ive seen a fair bit of life and human behavior and I'll respectfully stick to my initial response to the OP.

a reply to: CthruU
Forgiveness, is a state of understanding. Discrimination, which has its analogy in distillation of the fine, from the unrefined...is the key.

When we get done forgiving others, and get around to forgiving ourselves for our judgement...then a life, living the One Will can proceed.

a reply to: kiro8lak

So what is forgiveness, really?

A word ?

Each night, these events play over in my mind & I find my body reacting with tenseness, anger & fear. Is this just the Way Things Are?

There was a time when I begged to be forgiven by a girl.
She refused time after time.
I persisted.
Finally she did.

But the words were words.
For six more years we passed by each other
with a slight acknowledgment.

With serenity we both knew that what we once had was past,
no need to go through the grieving process every day.

==========
This life is a pretty tough town.
It is what it is.
All we can do is help when we can.
Do our damnedest for those we can.
Accept occasional defeat graciously.

And above all: Have a good day for as long as it is called today.

a reply to: pthena



Hey, I remember this video being on the Windows 98 Install disk.
It was to demonstrate the superiority of proprietary AVI over MPEG1.

MP4 baby! Where is AVI now?

Let us now forgive Microsoft.

a reply to: kiro8lak

I had an enemy.

I peed in his closed water reserve for a week, i knew he was braking the law and called the coppers on him.

Then i forgave him.

a reply to: kiro8lak

This is a difficult subject, but the way I see it, is that we forgive after our adversary has shown repentance for whatever wrong he/she did to us.

For as long as the wrong-doer doesn't care about the pain that he/she has caused and is prone to do it again, then I don't think that our forgiveness has any meaning or value and probably deep inside we don't mean it. Also we run the risk the other party might take our forgiveness as a sign of weakness and this is a tactical error in my opinion.

With that said, I think we should refrain from exercising self-justice on the guilty party and let the Divine make things right. Right after that, we should be willing to forgive the other people and an open conversation about what happened should follow.

Just my two cents.

When you choose to remember something terrible over and over and relive the same emotions of fear, anger, shame, etc. you are harming yourself. You must stop this. Whenever you start to think of bad things that happened in the past, stop yourself and think of something pleasant like sitting on a beach on a tropical island watching the waves roll in and feeling the warm breeze against your skin. If you need to move away physically from people who remind you of terrible things, and severely reduce your contact with them, go ahead and do that. The main point is don't relive bad experiences over and over - it will give you no peace of mind, will not change the past, and will not help you or anyone else in any way. So it isn't so much "forgetting" as choosing not to remember over and over. Its about letting go of the bad memories and the negative emotions attached to them. This discipline will make your life better.

Sal


a reply to: kiro8lak

So what is forgiveness, really? Wiping the slate clean?? Understanding where "They" were coming from? Forgiving but not forgetting? How can I forgive or forget terrible things I have seen? And should I? Each night, these events play over in my mind & I find my body reacting with tenseness, anger & fear. Is this just the Way Things Are?

a reply to: kiro8lak

You have some trauma that's a no brainer. Forgiveness is forgetting.
Before you can forget you have to come terms with the trauma.
Your trauma isn't normal and what caused the trauma isn't either.
Start there and try to find your way back to normal. You'll know when
you're there because you'll sleep a lot better.

I feel for you.

originally posted by: miri2019
For as long as the wrong-doer doesn't care about the pain that he/she has caused and is prone to do it again, then I don't think that our forgiveness has any meaning or value and probably deep inside we don't mean it.

Excellent point and a fascinating subject.

I think many people do want to forgive others for wrongs done against them, but as you said, I think one of the biggest obstacles is if/when the offender shows no signs of remorse, regret or understanding. I think in certain circumstances, forgiveness is a two-way thing.

Maybe for some doing the forgiving, it’s easier to forgive in order to mentally heal or move forward. I have seen videos (YouTube maybe..?) of someone who caused the death of another, in genuine pain and anguish, being forgiven by the family they impacted. It doesn’t change the event but perhaps both sides can heal.

Genuinely a fascinating human capacity. This planet would be a much better place if people could genuinely forgive others and the others showing genuine remorse for offending actions.

Forgiveness is something to learn. When my better half decided to take off with all my wealth, it took time for me to learn to forgive her, She sometimes rings and when I told her I forgave her, she wept uncontrollably. Even though I still love her and care for her, it doesn't mean I want have any more personal dealings with her.

Learning to forgive is seeing through the minds of others. Trying to understanding the urges and confussion that controls their actions. Wanting them to be better, for themselves.

Forgiveness takes time. Forgiveness heals your own heart.

Redemption is only possible for those who have insight into the 'wrongness' of their actions.
With out forgiveness, resentment results which is a deadly poison .
'forgive them because the know not what they do'
If they do know, they are not to be forgiven, they are to be apposed and neutralized, failing which, could we forgive our selves ?

originally posted by: miri2019
a reply to: kiro8lak

This is a difficult subject, but the way I see it, is that we forgive after our adversary has shown repentance for whatever wrong he/she did to us.

For as long as the wrong-doer doesn't care about the pain that he/she has caused and is prone to do it again, then I don't think that our forgiveness has any meaning or value and probably deep inside we don't mean it. Also we run the risk the other party might take our forgiveness as a sign of weakness and this is a tactical error in my opinion.

Its not about what the wrong doer does or wether or not they'll do it again or wether or not its seen as a sign of weakness which by the way to the unenlightened it always is a sign of weakness its about the individual themself - the fact that you consider it a tactical error is infact indicative of a mind always in competition at a bare minimum hence your comment about having a adversary.

Natural born forgivers who are not corrupted by circumstances and thus not returned to satans fold DO NOT have adversaries or a need for tactical evaluations which the unenlightened simply cannot fathom.

Forgiveness has PLENTY of meaning beyond the material world but the material world is where its expressed and tested.

Learning to forgive after the act of revenge or hatred or pondering payback scenarios although commendable eventually is a best intentioned failure at the end of the day and can only in the end be a person's downfall quite possibly.

So infact what its about is spiritual mindset of the individual and the most important screening process there could possibly be.

True forgiveness cannot be learned most are born with it but few hear the call and tune in to its value, they only excersise it to unburden their guilt in ignorant convenience.

Forgiveness is a sign of spiritual strength - the kind of strength that is unmeasurable in a material world.

a reply to: kiro8lak

I have always found it hard to forgive deliberate harm, I would never do it to another person and it was never in my nature to harm others even as a small child so I can not rationalize how they have it in there nature, accidental harm, something that has a good reason and was not done out of deliberate intent I can easily forgive and do so automatically when I know the it was such, if a person apologizes and mean's I can also more easily forgive.

But I also know it is a command of my Lord that I should forgive even those that do deliberate harm to me for did he not even pray to his father for them whom had pierced him while they were yet gambling for his clothing and for those that mocked him wrongly and called for his death.

I also know to not forgive is to carry the wound they have caused me for longer than I have too, it eats away and rot's the soul to keep anger toward them, some things I can not forgive and may God forgive me for that and give me the strength to forgive.

To carry such harm within is to refuse to let it be healed but it is sometimes not easy to forgive, forgive is not forget though.

We have all fallen short, there is a simple ancient Christian prayer practiced often continuously by orthodox and also early Catholic monk's that goes like this.

Lord Jesus Christ son of God have mercy on me a sinner.

This prayer is even claimed by some very devout Christians to burn Demon's like fire they can not stand it which is why many orthodox monk's spend all day repeating it often silently but continuously.

a reply to: CthruU

Its not about what the wrong doer does or wether or not they'll do it again or wether or not its seen as a sign of weakness which by the way to the unenlightened it always is a sign of weakness its about the individual themself - the fact that you consider it a tactical error is infact indicative of a mind always in competition at a bare minimum hence your comment about having a adversary.

Let me ask you this - who is this "enlightened" being, where does he/she leave? Does he live deep in the woods in remote castles, caves or monasteries high in the mountains, living an ascetic life style without its trials? As for me, I'm discretely combative when the situation arises, but always am ready to forgive and take the first step towards it, if the other party is willing to negotiate.

Think about this situation - the offender does something bad to you and you have the power to do anything to that person without any legal or social repercussions, nothing. What would you do?
No response and forgive him/her?
Stand your ground, respond proportionally and leave?
Stand your ground, respond proportionally, stay and try to clarify things and make things better?

I'd take the last alternative.

What would you do if in front of you is a repeat sociopath, that doesn't have any compunction when hurting you?! What would happen when you forgive him/her and afterwards that person goes into attack and hurts you again?? There's definitely more to this subject than a simple "forgive and be forgiven".

Natural born forgivers who are not corrupted by circumstances and thus not returned to satans fold DO NOT have adversaries or a need for tactical evaluations which the unenlightened simply cannot fathom.

How does this "Natural born forgivers who are not corrupted by circumstances and thus not returned to satans fold DO NOT have adversaries ..." work?! What does this "not corrupted by circumstances" mean? We're all part of this rough life here on earth and corrupting circumstances are always present here. If we're talking about an ascetic life style, then that's a different story and I have my deep reservations in that regard. What we're talking here is a person fully involved in the human daily life, with all its tribulations.

We don't choose to have adversaries, they are a natural part of this life. We usually don't go to them, they come to us unprovoked. What do you think of a sociopath that will constantly drain you of your life's energy? Should I forgive them? As for me, not really, they get what they deserve (I will let God take care of the punishment) and THEN (if they want) we sit down and clear things up and work towards a friendship if that's possible. That's the only way you deal with such people, any other way is doomed for failure.

That's why I'm saying forgiveness is a difficult subject.

Lrt bye gones, be bye gones, or get into the mind of some sick, warped individual whom crawls under the skin, and pitying them with smoldering intensity, and they'd live with it.

All at the expense of being better then, other then being even.