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A chance for the left to lead

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posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

I think that would have scared me too.

TheRedneck




posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I saw the ID Doc the other day. Still hot and her kid is 13.



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Nothin wrong with a milf



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Her husband would break me in two.



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: network dude

I believe he could have done a shut-down, mandated mask country-wide, stopped international and domestic travel and we would be in a much better place.

Also, my failing, as again - not a doctor or person in power - is not the same as the President of the U.S. He has a whole lot of resources at his disposal. We don't compare.

I blame him (partly) because he's in charge.



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 06:48 PM
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originally posted by: Gnawledge
a reply to: network dude

I believe he could have done a shut-down, mandated mask country-wide, stopped international and domestic travel and we would be in a much better place.

Also, my failing, as again - not a doctor or person in power - is not the same as the President of the U.S. He has a whole lot of resources at his disposal. We don't compare.

I blame him (partly) because he's in charge.


It's easy to pick apart what he did having the benefit of hindsight, but when you have to speak about what you would do. That was what I was looking for here. Honest ideas as to what we should do moving forward, just in case someone has a great idea. But a place to look back to see who had the right ideas and who didn't.



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: Gnawledge


I blame him (partly) because he's in charge.

That's actually a fair enough point. One of the duties of the President is to take the blame when things go wrong.

On the other hand, I can't think of anything he could have reasonably done better. It's just not possible to completely shut down the country... even the worst shutdowns allowed for necessary supplies to be made/distributed, utilities to continue, etc. Had we not allowed that, we would really be in a terrible place now.

I don't even think the shutdowns we had were effective at anything other than making people miserable. But that's just my opinion.

I do not agree that we need any national mandates. That's one thing I like that Trump did; he left it to each state. My situation is not the same as someone in Los Angeles or New York, and I don't expect to be treated as though it is. Heck, my situation is completely different from Birmingham! My complaint against Ivey is that she is making statewide mandates based on localized hotspots.

Right now, my main concern is to get this country back to where we can act normal again. I'm tired of the shortages, the scavenger hunts every week to find simple supplies, and the sea of useless face masks everywhere I look. Trump fixed the economy he was handed once; this one is not yet as bad so he can do it again. If he can do that, I can overlook any mistakes he made with a novel virus that appeared out of the blue.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

The shutdowns did make our lives miserable, I agree. But I fear we are just headed towards an even more strict shutdown now that cases are rising (and no, it isn't just the increased testing).

I don't have the solution. Clearly no one does. But Trump passing the buck to states and taking no responsibility is just childish.

...also, I can't even go to Canada man.



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 08:29 PM
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a reply to: Gnawledge

Even if cases are rising, it's just a cold for the vast majority of people. We don't shut down the country for a cold. The only thing cases show is how rapidly we seem to be moving toward herd immunity. Trump has stated in the past that he will not recommend another round of shutdowns.

Hospitalizations have some meaning. Deaths certainly have meaning. Cases are meaningless.

Remember, the stated reason for the shutdowns in the first place was to prevent the medical system from being overloaded. That has long been finished; no one in the US has been denied a room, a ventilator, or an ICU bed for lack of availability. Somewhere that changed from "flatten the curve" to "find a vaccine." That's a sure sign something's not right, when the rules start changing in the middle of the game.


...also, I can't even go to Canada man.

Last time I was in Canada, it snowed on me in May! That is the definition of evil! Sounds to me like you have a reason to celebrate the shutdown!

...damn evil white Yankee rain...

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah the initial response was insane. But it's a new virus. No one knows what to do. We know masks help and social distancing helps.

So why not mandate that? We can stay open and do that. But the leadership is not there. Not just Trump either, in most states.

...

Last time I was in Canada I got my life threatened by a guy in a wheelchair. But that is neither here nor there.



posted on Aug, 20 2020 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: Gnawledge


Yeah the initial response was insane. But it's a new virus. No one knows what to do. We know masks help and social distancing helps.

Actually, we don't know that. We are assuming that based on general infectious diseases. However, generally speaking, face masks are not protective unless properly fitted and worn, and then only if constructed from the proper material. The mask mandates allow bandanas, homemade masks, etc. Those do nothing to prevent the spread of the disease because the openings in the cloth are much, much larger than the virus particles... orders of magnitude larger!

It's actually akin to shooting bullets through a tennis net and expecting it to stop the bullets.

In a medical setting, professionals are trained to not fiddle with their masks. Ever watch a medical show on TV? As soon as the gloves snap on, the hands are held up and away from any contaminating surface, and no one touches their face. That's how it actually works. Compare that to what you can see on every corner: people wearing masks, often pulled down below their noses, constantly adjusting them, and grabbing everything in sight with those grubby claws.

Social distancing, IMO, seems to be a better way to prevent infection. I've seen that used since my youth: "Don't get too close; I've got the flu." People understood that giving others a wide berth is the best way to contain a disease, and they did it voluntarily. I tend to practice social distancing anyway... I don't like most people enough to want to get too close.

South Dakota, however, never closed their economy. Michigan closed theirs tight as a drum and wouldn't even let people travel to their second homes! They closed off entire areas of Walmart because somehow the virus was living in the gardening aisles (still trying to figure out how they knew that). South Dakota has the virus well under control; Michigan is still struggling with it. To be fair, I think the population density seems to have more to so with things than anything else, but the fact remains that the lockdowns didn't seem to help Michigan. Their per capita death rate is higher than other states with similar population densities.

This post from page 4 explains it in detail.

Now, where high-risk people are concerned, there you might have a point. Nursing and old-age homes are waiting petri dishes for this virus, complete with plenty of corpses to create. I can see taking more extreme measures for them, because to them this is a deadly infection. But the rest of the population? It doesn't seem to work.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 04:39 AM
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originally posted by: Gnawledge
a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah the initial response was insane. But it's a new virus. No one knows what to do. We know masks help and social distancing helps.

So why not mandate that? We can stay open and do that. But the leadership is not there. Not just Trump either, in most states.

...

Last time I was in Canada I got my life threatened by a guy in a wheelchair. But that is neither here nor there.



China is welding people in their houses and they still can’t contain the virus. The president has to make tough decisions and he makes them. Part of those decisions mean half the people will be unhappy either way. Trump has the stones to make hard decisions. Biden does not. While Trump was trying to isolate us from the rest of the world, Biden was calling Trump Xenophobic.
Then he spent the next 6 months locked in his basement.

Life is scary and we’re all going to die of something.
I’m sorry I ruined the ending of the movie for ya.
edit on 21-8-2020 by Guiltyguitarist because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2020 by Guiltyguitarist because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist

originally posted by: Gnawledge
a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah the initial response was insane. But it's a new virus. No one knows what to do. We know masks help and social distancing helps.

So why not mandate that? We can stay open and do that. But the leadership is not there. Not just Trump either, in most states.

...

Last time I was in Canada I got my life threatened by a guy in a wheelchair. But that is neither here nor there.



China is welding people in their houses and they still can’t contain the virus. The president has to make tough decisions and he makes them. Part of those decisions mean half the people will be unhappy either way. Trump has the stones to make hard decisions. Biden does not. While Trump was trying to isolate us from the rest of the world, Biden was calling Trump Xenophobic.
Then he spent the next 6 months locked in his basement.

Life is scary and we’re all going to die of something.
I’m sorry I ruined the ending of the movie for ya.


Yeah ok. ? Really is a cult following, with a dash of insane.

But don't be a guilty guitarist. Play the Sh!t out of it!



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 12:03 PM
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originally posted by: Gnawledge
But I fear we are just headed towards an even more strict shutdown now that cases are rising


That would be the stupidest thing that can be done. I believe that if we had just done the original two week shut down, we would have been in better shape.



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: Gnawledge
But I fear we are just headed towards an even more strict shutdown now that cases are rising


That would be the stupidest thing that can be done. I believe that if we had just done the original two week shut down, we would have been in better shape.


Agreed. Except maybe a month. No travel. But yeah I feel that where this is headed.



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: Gnawledge

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist

originally posted by: Gnawledge
a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah the initial response was insane. But it's a new virus. No one knows what to do. We know masks help and social distancing helps.

So why not mandate that? We can stay open and do that. But the leadership is not there. Not just Trump either, in most states.

...

Last time I was in Canada I got my life threatened by a guy in a wheelchair. But that is neither here nor there.



China is welding people in their houses and they still can’t contain the virus. The president has to make tough decisions and he makes them. Part of those decisions mean half the people will be unhappy either way. Trump has the stones to make hard decisions. Biden does not. While Trump was trying to isolate us from the rest of the world, Biden was calling Trump Xenophobic.
Then he spent the next 6 months locked in his basement.

Life is scary and we’re all going to die of something.
I’m sorry I ruined the ending of the movie for ya.


Yeah ok. ? Really is a cult following, with a dash of insane.


If I’m the one in the cult, why are you the one with the same cookie cutter response?
No counter, just name calling and dismissal with no explanation in an attempt to deflect.



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist

originally posted by: Gnawledge

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist

originally posted by: Gnawledge
a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah the initial response was insane. But it's a new virus. No one knows what to do. We know masks help and social distancing helps.

So why not mandate that? We can stay open and do that. But the leadership is not there. Not just Trump either, in most states.

...

Last time I was in Canada I got my life threatened by a guy in a wheelchair. But that is neither here nor there.



China is welding people in their houses and they still can’t contain the virus. The president has to make tough decisions and he makes them. Part of those decisions mean half the people will be unhappy either way. Trump has the stones to make hard decisions. Biden does not. While Trump was trying to isolate us from the rest of the world, Biden was calling Trump Xenophobic.
Then he spent the next 6 months locked in his basement.

Life is scary and we’re all going to die of something.
I’m sorry I ruined the ending of the movie for ya.


Yeah ok. ? Really is a cult following, with a dash of insane.


If I’m the one in the cult, why are you the one with the same cookie cutter response?
No counter, just name calling and dismissal with no explanation in an attempt to deflect.


The cookie cutter responses are just because i'm tired of the same old responses. "if we had just done the two wekk original shutdown.."

We didn't becasue we have no leadership on a federal level.



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: Gnawledge

Again, the problem is that even a complete two week shutdown would create absolute chaos and problems well beyond those caused by the virus. That's why certain businesses were deemed "essential." They are needed for people to survive.

I think a better solution would be to semi-quarantine the at-risk members of society. We have done some good things: things like having a "senior's hour" for at-risk individuals to do their shopping without the general public being around. The social distancing is a good thing, but it cannot be mandated. Public education can go a long way. Hospitals having strict requirements, especially around virus wards, are reasonable precautions. Food delivery, curbside pickup, all great ideas that I believe have helped the at-risk.

Obviously having extreme measures around elderly facilities until a treatment.vaccine can be completed is a must.

The speed at which research into a treatment/vaccine is progressing is a wonderful thing.

I can actually imagine a world where the at-risk could be given, free of charge, medical checkups every few days, in their homes, by licensed nurses to try and catch any cases early to help give them a head start on treatment. Considering the amount of tax revenue that has been lost over shutting down businesses (many permanently now), the cost would actually be less than doing a shutdown.

There are better ways.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

All good thoughts. The shutdown f'ed me in a big way.

BUT! I feel not a two-week but at least a month total shutdown, with no travel, would help this thing. And Mandatory masks for grocery shopping and neccesity.

States doing it alone is not enough.

We f'ed it initally. My worry is that a total shutdown is on it's way because of this.

I'm not blmaing anyone, or trying to...this is a new thing...I just want to follow the science as best we know it now.

If i need be political, I don't feel Trump is doing anything smart.



posted on Aug, 21 2020 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Gnawledge

A month would be worse. Imagine what would happen if people ran out of food and there was no food being produced. Most cities have a three-day supply of food; I learned that when I drove a truck. If the trucks are delayed more than three days, the shelves will empty. Most people have one week of food available. After that, someone has to venture out to find food.

What happens when a storm knocks down a power line? In a complete shutdown, there is no one there to fix it and people are sitting in the dark without any way to prepare food. Heck, wouldn't take a dropped power line... power plants don't run themselves. They have to be operated.

What happens if a lightning strike starts a wildfire in California? No firefighters... they are shut down.

Who is going to make sure people stay in their homes if the police are all sheltering in place?

When that water pump goes out, who is going to fix it? Everyone is at home... and out of water. After a month, that's going to be some seriously stinky toilets. How is that helping combat any illness?

Have a heart attack? Sorry, the ambulances are not running because the drivers are at home. The doctors and nurses are at home, too. What about the people already in the hospital? Are they just on their own? Same with those in nursing homes... they are there because they can't live without assistance... are they just out of luck?

No medicine... I guess it sucks to be diabetic.

Are we going to stop the seasons so farmers can still make a crop that year?

Like it or not, it is simply not possible to shut down the economy without killing millions of citizens due to starvation and want of even the most basic necessities. What you are proposing is many, many times as deadly as any virus, even ebola.

I have made two statements about this virus and I stand by both of them:
  • There will be more deaths due to this virus by people who don't have it than by people who have it, and
  • I'd rather die from this virus than live with it.
Your proposal would destroy the country and most of the people in it.


We f'ed it initally. My worry is that a total shutdown is on it's way because of this.

No, we didn't "f" it... it "f'ed" us. this is not something that anyone here brought on ourselves... it is a new, rogue virus that was released from a lab in Wuhan China. Accidental? Maybe. Purposely? Maybe. Either way, China did nothing whatsoever to prevent the spread outside China... but took great precautions to ensure it didn't spread inside China.

That's where the "f"ing took place.


I'm not blmaing anyone, or trying to...this is a new thing...I just want to follow the science as best we know it now.

Best to follow your head for now. Science will figure this out, but it will take time. In the meantime, science can only do so much... and it is doing it, faster under this administration that ever before. Try to practice good hygiene (that's not washing off with antibacterial five times a day... that will just create a super strain), keep a little extra distance between you and the next guy, try not to cough on people or stay back when someone else coughs, and practice extreme care both around the high-risk or everyone if you are at high risk. Other than that, just go on with your life and don't panic. Chances are, if (when) you do get it, it'll be no more than a sniffle.


If i need be political, I don't feel Trump is doing anything smart.

Apparently you do... you liked my ideas, and some of them are exactly what Trump has done. He has pushed extreme measures for elderly living quarters. He has pushed through the research for a treatment/vaccine. In addition, he was the one who banned travel from China when others were screaming "xenophobe!" and he was the one who established a task force to monitor this thing before it ever took hold in the US. Both good ideas. Both saved lives, according to Dr. Anthony Fauci himself, testifying under oath.

There should be nothing political about this. It shouldn't matter if the guy who does something right is named Trump. That should be the last thing anyone is concerned about if they are indeed concerned about this virus. The fact that it does apparently matter is the main "f" up that has happened, and it is the easiest to correct. Just give a little credit where credit is due and blame where blame is due... forget the damn name and party. I blame Trump for pushing a shutdown... but I credit him for the travel ban and early actions in the face of opposition. I also believe we need someone with a proven record of building an economy quickly because of the shutdown... and that is Trump... don't destroy my respect for you by trying to pretend the economy was great under Obama/Biden. It wasn't. I was here. I was suffering like most people around me.

In the end, that's what all the turmoil is about... people trying to make this thing political in an election year. I'm mad at the politicians, on both sides, who are doing that. Trump is about the only one who doesn't seem to be doing it (at least as bad) IMO.

TheRedneck




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