Experts now believe pockets of New York and London could have herd immunity

I’ve held off on posting that link that I did earlier, because I wanted to see if it held over a month. So far so good. Don’t believe me or the blogger I found it on do the math yourself and look at the graphs. Use the data from covidtracking.com. If you got problems with that data I don’t know what to tell ya. It’s a site maintained by the Atlantic, and pretty good data, and I’ve been half expecting something to happen to the site so us unsophisticated folk can’tdo some simple math and come to our own conclusions.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Who are the experts that this article is talking about? I would like to see how they conducted their research.

They also don't link to any proof that heard immunity without using a vaccine has been shown in humans.

I wish It were true but I can't trust this.

originally posted by: olaru12
Send your kids off to school!! Perhaps we can get more "expert" data from that experiment on herd immunity.

Experts from the "Daily Mail"........ impressive!!

Why not throw in a story from the onion to add credibility.

Experts also said the Titanic couldn't sink.

This is indeed interesting, however I'd want to be certain before declaring the pandemic over.

Well, no wonder so many companies are trying to make a vaccine. It doesn't even have to work to look like it works.

Thing is that number holds look at the date any US state hits .2% of population with confirmed cases. Look at a chart with the 7DMA and cases per million so it norms the data for comparisons. What do you see in every state that hits that threshold,from early states like NY, to more recent states like AZ and Fl? The question is why?

Thing is that number holds look at the date any US state hits .2% of population with confirmed cases. Look at a chart with the 7DMA and cases per million so it norms the data for comparisons. What do you see in every state that hits that threshold,from early states like NY, to more recent states like AZ and Fl? The question is why?

I think Fauci should be fired for many reasons going back to his respons to the HIV/AIDS pandemic in the 80's.

This is one of the main ones right now. Check the data yourself. Covidtracking.com

Hypothesis: Given the data from Singapore, as published in NATURE in the form of a peer-reviewed scientific paper, pre-existing resistance to Covid19 which could not be traced to SARS, MERS or previous Covid19 infection is about 50%. This is a profound observation that explains fully Diamond Princess, a cruise ship that was a closed experimental virus system for nearly a month and yet produced only 17% infection rates. That is impossible for a 100% susceptible population -- but it fits nicely if 50% is already partially or entirely immune and the virus has an R0 of somewhere between 2.5 and 3.0, as in that case herd suppresion occurs at about 66%. This matches exactly with what was observed.

In addition this means that each state, city or region of a state should reach herd suppression irrespective of their mitigation measures somewhere around a 2% infected rate counted by "cases." If the hypothesis is correct no state should be materially over that percentage without running into suppression of the virus and its transmission by natural forces.

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I'd like to see anyone falsify that hypothesis given the data from the covidtracking site. Pick a state, any state regardless of level of lockdown, and multiply it's population by .016 (1.6%). Find the date it hits that point on the chart. Make sure the chart's Per 1m toggle is on so it normalizes the data between states with different populations, and start looking at the charts when the total cases hits that 1.2 -2.0 % of total population. You can scroll to the bottom of each state and see case totals by day so you can go back to the chart and look at what the curve looks like after that threshold is hit. ON EVERY STATE THAT HAS HIT THAT THRESHOLD you see a leveling and then decline. First in cases and then in hospitalization and finally in deaths. Remember the link i posted was made 7-20-2020 that's almost a month with a hypothesis that is holding.

Look at the AZ data from 7-19-2020 and look at the chart of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths since. covidtracking.com...

Why are no one but bloggers and us conspiracy theorists talking about this?

originally posted by: olaru12
Send your kids off to school!! Perhaps we can get more "expert" data from that experiment on herd immunity.

Experts from the "Daily Mail"........ impressive!!

Several nations sent their kids back to school weeks ago, some never even closed schools. Every study published so far has found a very low rate of transmission in children and that children are the lowest risk group by far. The media loves to claim everything Trump says is false but if the data makes anything clear it's that children are "virtually immune" to Covid-19.

Secondly, this news was reported many places, I chose to use the Daily Mail despite seeing better sources because their article was by far the most detailed and contained a lot of information I found interesting and relevant to this topic. I don't like them anymore than you but in this case their coverage of this story was impressive enough to use them as a source.

originally posted by: olaru12
I closed my retail shop, laid off my help but gave them the LLC and inventory, if they want to reopen someday...I'm out, I can't afford the rent and now my landlord is left with a bunch of boarded up stores.

You are somewhat of a conundrum. So your business imploded due to these lockdowns but you're still totally onboard with continued shutdowns despite it being obvious that places with herd immunity should be re-opening? Many businesses are right on the brink of destruction and they cannot last much longer, every extra day we drag this out is doing immense damage.

It seems quite clear to me now that the puppet masters controlling the narrative are trying to drag this out until the elections because they know it's the most realistic way of dampening support for Trump. I didn't want to believe such a sick plan was in motion for a long time but it's hard to deny they are exploiting this pandemic for political reasons even if Covid-19 is natural.

originally posted by: bigsnowman

originally posted by: putnam6
I'm still backing herd immunity but think the masks and protocols slowed down the spread so it will take just a little longer to achieve

To be fair, that was the goal; slow it down so the hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed. Yes, the odds of surviving COVID are really good, but how many people with severe cases only survived because they were able to be hospitalized for it when they needed to be?

My only issue is with the places which flattened the wave so much they were placing hospital staff on leave. There is absolutely zero benefit to that approach, and those nations which did over-flatten the curve are now paying the price. If health services were being strained in a particular region then stricter lockdown rules can be justified, otherwise it's simply emotion-based fearmongering.

The places now experiencing a second wave are endangering their highest risk people because there was no chance for herd immunity to occur in the lowest risk groups. It was said over and over again that old people and high risk groups should isolate while younger people are allowed to choose if they want to work, preventing the economy from being utterly annihilated.

I have personally seen far more suffering with my own eyes as a result of economic damage than I have seen from Covid-19. Some of the stuff is really very sad and upsetting, and I find it disgusting how some people can act like none of this suffering exists, like there are absolutely no consequences to long term isolation and mass loss of jobs, these people are blinded by politics or fear.

Herd immunity is clearly the fastest way to overcome Covid-19 and if done while following reasonable safety precautions there is no doubt in my mind that things which have turned out much better for us and the world would already by long over this pandemic. These places which were hard hit have a silver lining which is herd immunity, denying it instead of taking advantage is foolish.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: ChaoticOrder
They also don't link to any proof that heard immunity without using a vaccine has been shown in humans.

Eh? I think you have it backwards.

The entire concept of herd immunity is only based on something that occurs naturally, by being exposed to the actual pathogen.

The fake herd immunity claimed to be achieved through vaccination is what there has never been any proof of.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: ChaoticOrder
They also don't link to any proof that heard immunity without using a vaccine has been shown in humans.

Eh? I think you have it backwards.

The entire concept of herd immunity is only based on something that occurs naturally, by being exposed to the actual pathogen.

The fake herd immunity claimed to be achieved through vaccination is what there has never been any proof of.

Can you back that up? All the papers that I find about heard immunity are in regards to vaccines.
Here's one from 1993 that talks about studies going back to the 1900's. It states that natural heard immunity is theoretical and then goes on to document cases of heard immunity happening once vaccines are introduced. op12no2.me...

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: bigsnowman

originally posted by: putnam6
I'm still backing herd immunity but think the masks and protocols slowed down the spread so it will take just a little longer to achieve

To be fair, that was the goal; slow it down so the hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed. Yes, the odds of surviving COVID are really good, but how many people with severe cases only survived because they were able to be hospitalized for it when they needed to be?

My only issue is with the places which flattened the wave so much they were placing hospital staff on leave. There is absolutely zero benefit to that approach, and those nations which did over-flatten the curve are now paying the price. If health services were being strained in a particular region then stricter lockdown rules can be justified, otherwise it's simply emotion-based fearmongering.

The places now experiencing a second wave are endangering their highest risk people because there was no chance for herd immunity to occur in the lowest risk groups. It was said over and over again that old people and high risk groups should isolate while younger people are allowed to choose if they want to work, preventing the economy from being utterly annihilated.

I have personally seen far more suffering with my own eyes as a result of economic damage than I have seen from Covid-19. Some of the stuff is really very sad and upsetting, and I find it disgusting how some people can act like none of this suffering exists, like there are absolutely no consequences to long term isolation and mass loss of jobs, these people are blinded by politics or fear.

Herd immunity is clearly the fastest way to overcome Covid-19 and if done while following reasonable safety precautions there is no doubt in my mind that things which have turned out much better for us and the world would already by long over this pandemic. These places which were hard hit have a silver lining which is herd immunity, denying it instead of taking advantage is foolish.

The long term damage from the shutdown, mentally, physically and financially is ruining whole families. The stress the uncertainty as people drain their savings and max out their credit. It has a cumulative effect it wears people down.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Can you back that up? All the papers that I find about heard immunity are in regards to vaccines.

Back what up? This is really just basic science 101. Herd immunity comes from enough of the herd developing immunity to whatever it is... regardless of if it was from being exposed naturally, or via some artificial mechanism.

The fact is, there is ZERO evidence for true vaccine induced herd immunity, regardless of what stupid paper written and produced by big pharma (or their minions in govt) that you want to quote.

Why or how anyone could believe that any attempt to artificially create herd immunity by short-circuiting the natural immune system is beyond me. But of course, you just swallow their bull# hook line and sinker.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Back what up? This is really just basic science 101.

So it should be pretty simple to link to some papers on human heard immunity right?

But of course, you just swallow their bull# hook line and sinker.

Where is the bs your believing coming from?

What are your thoughts on that research that I linked?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Where is the bs your believing coming from?

Science. Immunology 101.

Yes, there is discussion of this online. But no, I'll not do your work for you.

How can you not possibly see that if - IF - there can be anything like 'herd immunity' from vaccines, that it would have to be a corollary of something in nature.

What are your thoughts on that research that I linked?

It is ripping off the natural herd (not 'heard') immunity model.

Just like big pharma rips off everything from the natural world, and tries to create synthetic versions that always turn out extremely toxic and not nearly as effective as the natural versions of whatever it is they are ripping off.

OMG I just got back from London. ever one is Dead!
thats why no one is dieing any more.
I dont feel well...

I really think herd immunity is out of the question with this "disease "


As long people get effected by toxicity & EMF they will manifest symptoms, as the genius body will try to expel the crap out, but with 5G it just cant, because body will be exposed to the 5G radiation as long human is in place of radiation...only shielding can help.

I've been wondering about herd immunity too. Hopefully it works and we don't have the second wave. I'm good about wearing a mask and washing my hands. If this whole thing dies out and we have millions on unemployment and so many deaths there will be a lot of finger pointing.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

How can you not possibly see that if - IF - there can be anything like 'herd immunity' from vaccines, that it would have to be a corollary of something in nature.

Precisely. Vaccines work by containing a dead version of the virus, so when the immune system comes across the live version of the virus the immune response isn't so strong, meaning the vaccinated person will experience less severe symptoms or no symptoms at all. Therefore it's very clear to see how herd immunity could naturally work without vaccines if enough people develop a natural immunity. It seems to me some people have become so entrenched in the vaccine hysteria that they willingly ignore obvious facts of science if it doesn't line up with their beliefs. All I'm doing is pointing out very basic facts and using very simple principles to reach very obvious conclusions, yet somehow it's like I'm the only one who can see these obvious things.