Do even simple lifeforms such as insects or spiders have consciousness?

a reply to: Guiltyguitarist

Then why would you remember anything the next day?

Our minds are a little more complicated than an EPROM.

Where does anything go, or where is here for that matter?

We are very 3-dimensional creatures living in an at least 11-dimensional universe.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Guiltyguitarist

Then why would you remember anything the next day?

Our minds are a little more complicated than an EPROM.

Where does anything go, or where is here for that matter?

We are very 3-dimensional creatures living in an at least 11-dimensional universe.

I agree that science is currently telling us there are more dimensions. But what is a “dimension”?
It probably isn’t a world you can travel to. It might not be another realm but a wavelength in this universe that we simply cannot perceive.
Are our minds more complicated than a eprom? I’d like to think so, but I’m not sure. Our entire sense of self could be nothing more than memory cells.

a reply to: Guiltyguitarist

Simple answer, a dimension is a measurement of length in one direction.

In Physics, a dimension can also mean any physical measurement such as length, time, mass, etc.

As to sense of self, well perspective is a very personal experience, can't really be shared, as far as we know anyhoo.

If you put everything together...you ought to know why things have the relations that they do..

It CAN, add to being just nothing related to everything so perfectly that nothing cannot be attained...but everything can!

Everything and its expansion is equal to one...even the blackest space there is occupancy of elements..of various kind..Hydrogen Helium and Oxygen!

a reply to: Boundless1

Phi, Pi, G, spring to mind.

As it turns out, it takes only 26 fundamental constants to describe our universe as simply and completely as it is possible.

a reply to: nononsense35

if ants were conscious then I think they'd have taken over humans as the top species
because if they were aware that we were destroying their habit they'd attack our food and our energy supplies
as they form the largest organisms with their super hives that stretch entire continents

Ants in the pants!

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: nononsense35
if ants were conscious then I think they'd have taken over humans as the top species

I wouldn't assume that ants are fully conscious as we are and that they will build an AK47 to get rid of us Just that such animals appear to do more than what they could have "built in", but in the end they're still limited to what their nervous system can process, even if they got external input.

The language of bees is extremely rudimentary, but still they must have had some "bee conference" where they decided how they'll indicate the distance to a food source. Just kidding of course, but when one speaks, the other must understand the meaning of it and that doesn't just come on itself, I guess.

a reply to: nononsense35

I guess one can fiddle around a bit with how they're going to define consciousness because it's such a complicated subject, but whatever one ascribes to various animals, it still won't be quite like human consciousness.

When you glance in a mirror, you may think of how you looked when you were younger, even comparing that with what your appearance could be in the years to come or how you would look after applying cosmetics. These thoughts can arise almost unconsciously, yet something very special is occurring, something that no animal can experience.

Unlike animals, who mainly live and act on present needs, humans can contemplate the past and plan for the future. A key to your doing that is the brain’s almost limitless memory capacity. True, animals have a degree of memory, and thus they can find their way back home or recall where food may be. Human memory is far greater. One scientist estimated that our brain can hold information that “would fill some twenty million volumes, as many as in the world’s largest libraries.” Some neuroscientists estimate that during an average life span, a person uses only 1/100 of 1 percent (.0001) of his potential brain capacity. You might well ask, ‘Why do we have a brain with so much capacity that we hardly test a fraction of it in a normal lifetime?’

Nor is our brain just some vast storage place for information, like a supercomputer. Biology professors Robert Ornstein and Richard F. Thompson wrote: “The ability of the human mind to learn—to store and recall information—is the most remarkable phenomenon in the biological universe. Everything that makes us human—language, thought, knowledge, culture—is the result of this extraordinary capability.”

Moreover, you have a conscious mind. That statement may seem basic, but it sums up something that unquestionably makes you exceptional. The mind has been described as “the elusive entity where intelligence, decision making, perception, awareness and sense of self reside.” As creeks, streams, and rivers feed into a sea, so memories, thoughts, images, sounds, and feelings flow constantly into or through our mind. Consciousness, says one definition, is “the perception of what passes in a man’s own mind.”

Modern researchers have made great strides in understanding the physical makeup of the brain and some of the electrochemical processes that occur in it. They can also explain the circuitry and functioning of an advanced computer. However, there is a vast difference between brain and computer. With your brain you are conscious and are aware of your being, but a computer certainly is not. Why the difference?

Frankly, how and why consciousness arises from physical processes in our brain is a mystery. “I don’t see how any science can explain that,” one neurobiologist commented. Also, Professor James Trefil observed: “What, exactly, it means for a human being to be conscious . . . is the only major question in the sciences that we don’t even know how to ask.” One reason why is that scientists are using the brain to try to understand the brain. And just studying the physiology of the brain may not be enough. Consciousness is “one of the most profound mysteries of existence,” observed Dr. David Chalmers, “but knowledge of the brain alone may not get [scientists] to the bottom of it.”

Nonetheless, each of us experiences consciousness. For example, our vivid memories of past events are not mere stored facts, like computer bits of information. We can reflect on our experiences, draw lessons from them, and use them to shape our future. We are able to consider several future scenarios and evaluate the possible effects of each. We have the capacity to analyze, create, appreciate, and love. We can enjoy pleasant conversations about the past, present, and future. We have ethical values about behavior and can use them in making decisions that may or may not be of immediate benefit. We are attracted to beauty in art and morals. In our mind we can mold and refine our ideas and guess how other people will react if we carry these out.

Such factors produce an awareness that sets humans apart from other life-forms on earth. A dog, a cat, or a bird looks in a mirror and responds as if seeing another of its kind. But when you look in a mirror, you are conscious of yourself as a being with the capacities just mentioned. You can reflect on dilemmas, such as: ‘Why do some turtles live 150 years and some trees live over 1,000 years, but an intelligent human makes the news if he reaches 100?’ Dr. Richard Restak states: “The human brain, and the human brain alone, has the capacity to step back, survey its own operation, and thus achieve some degree of transcendence. Indeed, our capacity for rewriting our own script and redefining ourselves in the world is what distinguishes us from all other creatures in the world.”

Man’s consciousness baffles some. The book Life Ascending, while favoring a mere biological explanation, admits: “When we ask how a process [evolution] that resembles a game of chance, with dreadful penalties for the losers, could have generated such qualities as love of beauty and truth, compassion, freedom, and, above all, the expansiveness of the human spirit, we are perplexed. The more we ponder our spiritual resources, the more our wonder deepens.” Very true.

On the topic of language, chimpanzees have been taught some limited sign language, but their use of it is essentially limited to simple requests for food or other basics. Having worked to teach chimps simple nonverbal communication, Dr. David Premack concluded: “Human language is an embarrassment for evolutionary theory because it is vastly more powerful than one can account for.”

We might ponder: ‘Why do humans have this marvelous skill to communicate thoughts and feelings, to inquire and to respond?’ The Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics states that “[human] speech is special” and admits that “the search for precursors in animal communication does not help much in bridging the enormous gap that separates language and speech from nonhuman behaviors.” Professor Ludwig Koehler summarized the difference: “Human speech is a secret; it is a divine gift, a miracle.”

What a difference there is between an ape’s use of signs and the complex language ability of children! Sir John Eccles referred to what most of us have also observed, an ability “exhibited even by 3-year-old children with their torrent of questions in their desire to understand their world.” He added: “By contrast, apes do not ask questions.” Yes, only humans form questions, including questions about the meaning of life.

How Unique You Are! (Is There a Creator Who Cares About You?)

a reply to: nononsense35

Many insects act purely on instinct, some are so simple that if you cut their heads off they will flop around wildly until they starve to death because the have no mouth to eat with.

Many are unable to distinguish between their own reflection and another animal.

a reply to: AaarghZombies
You believe that what you see in the mirror is what you are!

You are the looking glass.

The looking glass does not appear as anything....but without it nothing can appear.

Has an empty mirror ever been seen?
What does a mirror look like?

originally posted by: halfoldman
a reply to: Boundless1

Well spiritually we're all immortal, but there's a body for every consciousness.

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal (One Myth Leads to Another)

What is the origin of the myth?

“The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 11, page 25.

What does the Bible say?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”​—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.​—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23

FACT:

At death a person ceases to exist

Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

Immortality of the Soul—The Birth of the Doctrine (What Happens to Us When We Die?)

“No subject connected with his psychic life has so engrossed the mind of man as that of his condition after death.”—“ENCYCLOPÆDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS.”

A 70-YEAR-OLD scholar and teacher is accused of impiety and of corrupting young minds by his teaching. Even though he presents a brilliant defense at his trial, a biased jury finds him guilty and sentences him to death. Just hours before his execution, the aged teacher presents to the pupils gathered around him a series of arguments to affirm that the soul is immortal and that death is not to be feared.

The condemned man is none other than Socrates, renowned Greek philosopher of the fifth century B.C.E.* His student Plato recorded these incidents in the essays Apology and Phaedo. Socrates and Plato are credited with being among the first to advance the idea that the soul is immortal. But they were not the originators of this teaching.

As we shall see, the roots of the idea of human immortality reach into much earlier times. Socrates and Plato, however, polished the concept and transformed it into a philosophical teaching, thus making it more appealing to the cultured classes of their day and beyond. (*: B.C.E. means “Before the Common Era.” C.E. denotes “Common Era,” often called A.D., for Anno Domini, meaning “in the year of the Lord.”)

From Pythagoras to the Pyramids

The Greeks prior to Socrates and Plato also believed that the soul lived on after death. Pythagoras, the famous Greek mathematician of the sixth century B.C.E., held that the soul was immortal and subject to transmigration. Before him, Thales of Miletus, thought to be the earliest known Greek philosopher, felt that an immortal soul existed not only in men, animals, and plants but also in such objects as magnets, since they can move iron. The ancient Greeks claimed that the souls of the dead were ferried across the river Styx to a vast underground realm called the netherworld. There, judges sentenced the souls either to torment in a high-walled prison or to bliss in Elysium.

In Iran, or Persia, to the east, a prophet named Zoroaster appeared on the scene in the seventh century B.C.E. He introduced a way of worship that came to be known as Zoroastrianism. This was the religion of the Persian Empire, which dominated the world scene before Greece became a major power. The Zoroastrian scriptures say: “In Immortality shall the soul of the Righteous be ever in Joy, but in torment the soul of the Liar shall surely be. And these Laws hath Ahura Mazda [meaning, “a wise god”] ordained through His sovereign authority.”

The teaching of the immortality of the soul was also a part of the pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religion. Ancient tribes of Iran, for example, cared for the souls of the departed by offering them food and clothing to benefit them in the underworld.

Belief in life after death was central to Egyptian religion. The Egyptians held that the soul of the dead person would be judged by Osiris, the chief god of the underworld. For example, a papyrus document claimed to be from the 14th century B.C.E. shows Anubis, god of the dead, leading the soul of the scribe Hunefer before Osiris. On a pair of scales, the heart of the scribe, representing his conscience, is weighed against the feather that the goddess of truth and justice wears on her head. Thoth, another god, records the results. Since Hunefer’s heart is not heavy with guilt, it weighs less than the feather, and Hunefer is allowed to enter the realm of Osiris and receive immortality. The papyrus also shows a female monster standing by the scales, ready to devour the deceased if the heart fails the test. The Egyptians also mummified their dead and preserved the bodies of pharaohs in impressive pyramids, since they thought that the survival of the soul depended on preserving the body.

Various ancient civilizations, then, held one teaching in common—the immortality of the soul. Did they get this teaching from the same source?

The Point of Origin

“In the ancient world,” says the book The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, “Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion.” This book goes on to explain: “In view of the early contact between Egypt and Babylonia, as revealed by the El-Amarna tablets, there were certainly abundant opportunities for the infusion of Babylonian views and customs into Egyptian cults. In Persia, the Mithra cult reveals the unmistakable influence of Babylonian conceptions . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”(El-Amarna is the site of ruins of the Egyptian city Akhetaton, claimed to have been built in the 14th century B.C.E.)

But does not the Babylonian view of what happens after death differ considerably from that of the Egyptians, the Persians, and the Greeks? Consider, for example, the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh. Its aging hero, Gilgamesh, haunted by the reality of death, sets out in search of immortality but fails to find it. A wine maiden he meets during his journey even encourages him to make the most of this life, for he will not find the unending life he seeks. The message of the whole epic is that death is inevitable and the hope of immortality is an illusion. Would this indicate that the Babylonians did not believe in the Hereafter?

Professor Morris Jastrow, Jr., of the University of Pennsylvania, U.S.A., wrote: “Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought [of Babylonia] ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death [in their view] was a passage to another kind of life, and the denial of immortality merely emphasized the impossibility of escaping the change in existence brought about by death.” Yes, the Babylonians also believed that life of some kind, in some form, continued after death. They expressed this by burying objects with the dead for their use in the Hereafter.

Clearly, the teaching of the immortality of the soul goes back to ancient Babylon. According to the Bible, a book bearing the stamp of accurate history, the city of Babel, or Babylon, was founded by Nimrod, a great-grandson of Noah. After the global Flood in Noah’s day, there was only one language and one religion. By founding the city and constructing a tower there, Nimrod started another religion. The Bible record shows that after the confusion of languages at Babel, the unsuccessful tower builders scattered and made new beginnings, taking along their religion. (Genesis 10:6-10; 11:4-9) Babylonish religious teachings thus spread across the face of the earth.

Tradition has it that Nimrod died a violent death. After his death the Babylonians reasonably would have been inclined to hold him in high regard as the founder, builder, and first king of their city. Since the god Marduk (Merodach) was regarded as the founder of Babylon, some scholars have suggested that Marduk represents the deified Nimrod. If this is so, then the idea that a person has a soul that survives death must have been current at least by the time of Nimrod’s death. In any case, the pages of history reveal that following the Flood, the birthplace of the teaching of the immortality of the soul was Babel, or Babylon.

How, though, did the doctrine become central to most religions of our time? The following article examines its entry into Eastern religions:

The Idea Enters Eastern Religions

originally posted by: halfoldman
a reply to: Boundless1

Well spiritually we're all immortal, but there's a body for every consciousness.

In light of some of the information in my previous comment, one may begin to understand the Bible's descriptions of a world empire of false religion, embracing all religions whose teachings and practices do not conform to the true worship of Jehovah, the only true God. Following the Flood of Noah’s day, false religion had its beginning at Babel (later known as Babylon). (Gen. 10:8-10; 11:4-9) In time, Babylonish religious beliefs and practices spread to many lands. So Babylon the Great became a fitting name for false religion as a whole. (Rev. 17:5)

The book of Revelation contains expressions that are not to be understood literally. (Revelation 1:1) For example, it mentions a woman with the name “Babylon the Great” written on her forehead. This woman is said to be sitting on “crowds and nations.” (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15) Since no literal woman could do this, Babylon the Great must be symbolic. So, what does this symbolic prostitute represent?

At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” The term “city” indicates an organized group of people. Since this “great city” has control over “the kings of the earth,” the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one. Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.

An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that “the kings of the earth,” or the political elements of this world, “committed sexual immorality” with her. She has practiced such immorality by forming alliances with the rulers of this earth and has done whatever is necessary in order to gain power and influence over them. That is why she is called “the great prostitute.”​—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.

Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because “the merchants of the earth,” representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from “a distance.” (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17) Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her “spiritistic practices.” (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are religious and demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great “a dwelling place of demons.” (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting “prophets” and “holy ones.” (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders “the witnesses of Jesus.” (Revelation 17:6) Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide. The religious idea/concept that 'we are spiritually all immortal', as you put it, is a big one (as in popular, prevalent, widespread and pervasive). And it traces all the way back to Satan's first lie to Eve that she wasn't going to die (it's just a little bit modified, now, it's more like 'the real you won't die, some part keeps on living when your physical body dies'; it's still more or less the same lie though. Satan is very cunning with his modifications to hide the truth that Eve is most definitely dead, both physically and spiritually. The person no longer exists, has ceased to exist, as the first article from my previous comment puts it at the end).

Beware though:

The End of False Religion/Babylon the Great Is near! (playlist + context)

More details about myth 1 from the article quoted in my previous comment are discussed in my first thread on ATS:

One myth leads to another (page 3)

It will be difficult to break away from believing in these popular myths/false stories though:

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.” ] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.”* [Or “myths”; Greek, myʹthos] (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

But it's not impossible to:

REJECT MYTHS, STICK TO THE TRUTH

What can we conclude from this brief review of myths that are still taught by many churches? These “tales [Greek, myʹthos] artfully spun” cannot rival the simple and comforting truths of the Bible.​—2 Peter 1:16, The New English Bible.

Therefore, with an open mind, do not hesitate to compare with God’s Word​—the source of truth—​what you have been taught. (John 17:17) Then, this promise will prove true in your case: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”​—John 8:32.

Source: Myth 6: God Approves of the Use of Images and Icons in Worship (One Myth Leads to Another)

Additional information concerning that last promise from Jesus to his disciples:

“What Is Truth?”

Sorry if my response to halfoldman about the concept of being spiritually immortal drifted a bit too far off-topic from this thread. I just like to be thorough when I make a bold claim that that idea is wrong/false with “the father of the lie” (John 8:44) as its ultimate origin and a strong or blatant connection to Babylon the Great as both are identified in the Bible.

So, according to the Bible:

Does conscious life continue for a person after the spirit leaves the body?

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from ruʹach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (NAB, Ro, Yg, and Dy [145:4] here render ruʹach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29)

Source: Soul (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

A clear: no. (Some of the context there was: Is the soul the same as the spirit? Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ruʹach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ruʹach; but the word translated soul is neʹphesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ruʹach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”)

When Dead Means Dead (Awake!—1998)

“A live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.”—Ecclesiastes 9:4, 5.

MANY people have some vague belief about a soul living on after death or going through cycles of reincarnation. Some even believe that one can return from a death experience. Thomas Lynch, a mortician, was recently asked his thoughts on the afterlife question. He said: “Those people who see tunnels of light and so on didn’t come back from the dead—they just went beyond our ability to measure their vital signs. Because ‘dead’ is what you are when you don’t come back.”—The New York Times Magazine.

The Bible has had it right for millenniums. “A live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:4, 5) A short walk around any ancient graveyard will soon confirm that truth.

I feel like levels of consciousness matter but when you factor in the chaos of nature nothing matters.

a reply to: TheBloodRed
To be conscious is to be aware of what is occurring.

Humans are aware of the thoughts that occur......the thoughts are usually about 'me in time'.

Where is time now?
So what is this 'me'?

a reply to: TheBloodRed

Surely you are either conscious or not, that is awake or asleep. and the other life forms we call animals, are just the same as they think , they might not think about the same things that we think but they think and plan and have a better idea of what time of day it is than we do. If you realize this it can be a bit of a worry.

If your looking to academia for a glimpse into the unknown you're outta luck, science is as corrupted as politics, you need to look further back before they had created all the distractions. History has been hidden, magick is real.
I know for a fact. And If you want to know more you need to occupy your mind with the proper lit.
a reply to: nononsense35

a reply to: Brotherman

You had to add that last bit, didn't you? When I was a kid, I would never kill a spider, even though I was scared of them, because I was afraid another one would see me and attack me or something!

Then again, I always thought cats were alien spies (for real)!

a reply to: OutTheBox

Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

So you may be kind of correct on that score.

I would not go getting kitted out for Hogwarts uniform just yet all the same.

Science is the best yet, and only tool humanity has devised, that will allow us to attempt to understand but a mere fraction of the universe and grand scheme of things, nevermind our place within in such.

So i would not go discounting the ideology unless you have something better to supplant it with.

Great thread! I think of these things a LOT. It makes it difficult to live with some decisions though. Recently I have had an influx of flies around my house due to having cat food outside, but it seems worse this year. Also, I have ants outside for the same reason I guess. They both swarm around the cat food.
So I looked for non toxic ways to get rid of ants. I found that diatomaceous earth is fossilized algae crushed to a powder that you sprinkle around where they go. When they walk on it, it scrapes their exoskeleton off and they die of deyhdration. I thought that's seems kind of cruel. But I really needed to do something that the cats wouldn't get into and get poisoned.
For the flies, I found these hanging traps with bait in them. The flies are attracted, they go in, and are trapped in there. You would think the flies would see their buddies trapped, some dying, some dead, and stay away. But no, they keep going in. It's disgusting, and the bait and dead flies I guess, smell awful.
Anyway, what I was thinking is, if they are conscious, then they would all hate me. Ants have a hive mind, don't they? Wouldn't they then stay away from this food source if the powder kills them off? I've had to reapply a couple times, but it works for a while.
Sorry, I guess I'm just babbling now.
I do feel bad about killing any bugs or spiders though.