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Did Flu Shots Cause the COVID 19 Pandemic?

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posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 04:49 PM
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Fascinating article... upshot is that people who get or have common colds or flus may have a higher resistance level to COVID 19:

www.the-scientist.com...


Out of 68 healthy donors who had been tested for prior exposure to SARS-CoV-2 and who were found to be negative, 24 of them had a small number of T cells in their blood that reacted when exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 spike (S) protein—a complex structure protruding from the virus’s exterior surface. The study, which was later published in Nature July 29, explains that the cells in question produced proteins on their surfaces, an indication of an immune response.



If that is indeed what’s going on here, one possible explanation would be that the healthy donors had been infected by another coronavirus relatively recently, perhaps one that causes a common cold, says coauthor Andreas Thiel, an immunologist at the Charité hospital, part of Universitätsmedizin Berlin. Besides more serious diseases such as COVID-19 and SARS, human coronaviruses have been known for decades to cause what are usually much milder infections. The specific viruses that cause these illnesses are found all around the world.



“Although these viruses are not very similar [to SARS-CoV-2], the low degree of similarity is of course sufficient that the immune system, at least partly, is cross-reacting, which is a very normal thing,” he says.


The article references the common cold or other "coronaviruses" but where my mind goes is... does the flu shot basically squelch people's immunity or ability to fight COVID? This actually makes a lot of sense...

Here's a point from the CDC:

www.cdc.gov...#:~:text=Flu%20vaccination%20is%20especially%20important,keep%20up%20with%20changing%20viruses.


Flu vaccination is especially important for people 65 years and older because they are at high risk of developing serious complications from flu. Flu vaccines are updated each season as needed to keep up with changing viruses. Also, immunity wanes over a year so annual vaccination is needed to ensure the best possible protection against flu. A flu vaccine protects against the flu viruses that research indicates will be most common during the upcoming season.


Who's most at risk? Those over 65 or with pre-existing conditions... so you have a population that is told in no uncertain terms they need to get a flu shot to boost their immunity or ability to fight off the infection... then they get COVID and have a seriously hard time.

So in a way, the flu shot might be responsible for not allowing people's immune systems to fight off a Coronavirus at a lower level of severity - thus when they get a more aggressive strain - serious problems... and thus COVID's impact.

Interestingly... recall that the UK has been hit the hardest on an absolute basis as far as EU countries go - and they have the highest annual flu vaccination rate!

www.vaccinestoday.eu...

Crazy... we may have driven the world into a pandemic because we tried to stave off the flu - and put the most at-risk population into even more risk...

As a personal aside - one of my family members tested positive for COVID. I live with this individual. I tested negative after they tested positive and again negative after quarantine - I never got it and I was certainly around them.

I also never, ever get a flu shot. I also haven't had the flu in a decade... and didn't get COVID.




posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Thank God I've never had a flu shot and I'm almost 70.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: EnigmaChaser
Crazy... we may have driven the world into a pandemic because we tried to stave off the flu - and put the most at-risk population into even more risk...


That well could have a hand in how virulent is was/is for the elderly indeed. And this potential is the takeaway people need to sink in -- it's rather plausible we did this to our elderly. The road to hell and all, too bad no one learns from that "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" deal regarding disease eradication.
edit on 8/5/2020 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:04 PM
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originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: EnigmaChaser
Crazy... we may have driven the world into a pandemic because we tried to stave off the flu - and put the most at-risk population into even more risk...


That well could have a hand in how virulent is was/is for the elderly indeed. And this potential is the takeaway people need to sink in -- it's rather plausible we did this to our elderly. The road to hell and all, too bad no one learns from that "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" deal regarding disease eradication.


Entirely possible.

What this also says to me is that if we have a disease we can generally treat - perhaps don't vaccinate against it or only vaccinate against it on the basis of probability of exposure.

I'm not talking about Polio or other very serious diseases that we can't really "treat". I mean the flu, colds or anything that is along those lines of severity.

The reality is that the flu, a cold, pneumonia, etc. can and will kill the elderly ongoing. That isn't a callous statement, it's a realistic statement. My grandmother who is 93 nearly died from said type of illness six months ago. Doctor's response "she's 93 - this is part of being human". He wasn't rude about it... he was simply stating the reality - things get more problematic health wise as people get older....

To the extent we killed the elderly population, we did it trying to "prevent" this kind of thing... when in reality if those people had been getting vaccinated for 20 years they probably were compromised as it pertains to getting COVID a long time ago... it just so happened this nasty disease for those who are at risk reared it's head now.

NOTE: I'm not using elderly in a negative sense. We, hopefully, will all be elderly one day and make it that far. By the same token, if we do, we'll all be elderly - it's a fact of life.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser




So in a way, the flu shot might be responsible for not allowing people's immune systems to fight off a Coronavirus at a lower level of severity - thus when they get a more aggressive strain - serious problems... and thus COVID's impact.


Vaccines work by causing your immune system to develop defenses against the disease without contracting the disease. They do not lower your immune response. Forget the fact that Influenza is not a coronavirus.

The article you cite does not suggest anything close to what you say but it does say this:

In Le Bert’s study, patients appeared to have retained reactive T cells for nearly two decades. She and her colleagues write in their report that this has potentially significant implications: that immunity acquired through, say, a vaccine could last for many months or years.



edit on 8/5/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:11 PM
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Doctor Judy Mokivits outlines this premise in this episode linked of London Real

She mentions 5 countries that got hot doses mixed in odd ways that she implies did spike the infection rate.

Worth a watch if you haven’t already heard of her in the news and instantly discredit her content due to previous ties with Faucci

SaneThinking



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: SaneThinking




Worth a watch if you haven’t already heard of her in the news and instantly discredit her content due to previous ties with Faucci

She had no ties with Fauci.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

One more time. It isn't the hard fought for science I don't
trust. So saying that to call me out is just stupid. And I'd
have to be stupid enough to ever get a flu shot or vaccine.
Because of all the influence involved between the science
and the person. I would rather have nature take it's course.
You don't like it I don't give a crap.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:16 PM
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It's been so long since I've had a flubshot I can't even recall if I ever got one. I might have got one when I was processed into the military back in 2012, but that was the last time. Only shots I had after those were one anthrax shot and a tetanus shot.

I've heard it postulated before that the flu shot could have possibly been a contributing factor, but I'd like to see data reflecting people who haven't had the flu shot, and people who get it every year.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaserthere is a 33% higher chance of conyracting pathogenic lung complaints upon receiving the flu shot.

Its a study, its true, Im in the car...look it up



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: EnigmaChaser




So in a way, the flu shot might be responsible for not allowing people's immune systems to fight off a Coronavirus at a lower level of severity - thus when they get a more aggressive strain - serious problems... and thus COVID's impact.


Vaccines work by causing your immune system to develop defenses against the disease. They do not lower your immune response. Forget the fact that Influenza is not a coronavirus.

The article you cite does not suggest anything close to what you say but it does say this:

In Le Bert’s study, patients appeared to have retained reactive T cells for nearly two decades. She and her colleagues write in their report that this has potentially significant implications: that immunity acquired through, say, a vaccine could last for many months or years.




Riddle me this... how is it that I can pull up flu vaccination rates, overlay that on COVID cases, and note an interesting "ah ha" that seems to be a consistent pattern...

Of note... the US had it's highest flu vaccination rate of the last decade in 2019 amongst the 65 and older population in 2018-2019 at 68.1%:

www.cdc.gov...

That's interesting to me when taken along with the British stats.

I don't get flu shots. I live with a person who was COVID positive. I never got COVID. So to me, this is a very interesting observation.

Lastly, don't just read an article, quote it and make a statement. I'll go out and, ya' know, use it as a springboard to look into some detail. Maybe there's some there, there - maybe there isn't. In this case, it's highly interesting.

And since you either can't or won't comprehend that this is interesting... here's something for you to chew on:

New Jersey and Alabama requite flu shots for LTC facility patients - where do we have the most COVID deaths? Nursing homes!:

www.cdc.gov...


All Long-Term Care Facilities
Alabama law requires that “[a] long term care facility shall document the annual immunization against influenza virus and the immunization against pneumococcal disease for each resident.”58
In New Jersey, long-term care facilities must “document evidence of annual vaccination against influenza for each resident.”59


Or perhaps... given 32 states have laws that REQUIRE a flu vaccination for said facilities:

All Patients
Thirty-two states have flu vaccination laws for all patients.62

Arkansas requires nursing homes to “[d]ocument and report annually immunizations against . . . nfluenza virus for residents.”63
Delaware law requires nursing facilities to “have on file evidence of annual vaccination against influenza for all residents.”64
Patients Aged 65 Years or Older
Two states have flu vaccination laws for patients aged 65 years or older.65

Under California law, healthcare facilities, including nursing facilities, “shall offer . . . immunizations for influenza and pneumococcal disease to residents, aged 65 years or older, receiving services at the facility.”66
In Texas, nursing homes must “offer . . . influenza vaccine to elderly residents,”67 defined as those aged 65 years or older.68


Oh, and New Jersey was an epicenter of the outbreak... interesting aside....

And from November 2019!

health.usnews.com...


Vaccination in Nursing Homes
It's important for nursing home residents and staff to get flu and pneumonia vaccines.



In response to this pattern, many health care providers and institutions launch campaigns beginning shortly after the back-to-school sales have ended to get more people vaccinated. This vaccination effort includes those living in nurisng homes. And for good reason – flu and pneumonia are dangerous illnesses. But they can be prevented or mitigated with widely available vaccines.


So, yeah - I'd say this is worth looking further into.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

One more time. It isn't the hard fought for science I don't
trust. So saying that to call me out is just stupid. And I'd
have to be stupid enough to ever get a flu shot or vaccine.
Because of all the influence involved between the science
and the person. I would rather have nature take it's course.
You don't like it I don't give a crap.


Um... are you sure you're posting in the right thread? I don't recall stating anything to call you out at all....



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:44 PM
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www.cbc.ca... -to-public-health-debate-1.2912790


People who receive flu vaccines year after year can sometimes show reduced protection, an effect that Canadian infectious disease specialists say muddies public health messages for annual flu vaccine campaigns.

During the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, researchers at the B.C. Centre for Disease Control originally thought seasonal flu shots from 2008 might offer extra protection against the new pandemic strain. They were puzzled to find instead, seasonal flu vaccination almost doubled the risk of infection with pandemic flu.



Nope... don't want to be a Guinea pig



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: fernalley

Your source:

Regardless of previous vaccination history, flu shots did protect against flu infections requiring medical care, Huong McLean of the Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation and her colleagues concluded in a September online issue of the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. Protection was greatest among those who weren’t vaccinated previously.
So, vaccinations work, less so if you've had prior vaccinations.


Nope... don't want to be a Guinea pig

If you are at high risk you should get one, but it is your choice.

"I think it's reasonable that currently the recommendation is to continue, for instance, especially for people who are at high risk, immediate risk of hospitalization or death … For these people, there is a clear and present and real threat that they need to deal with and vaccine is the best way," Skowronski said.


edit on 8/5/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser


Lastly, don't just read an article, quote it and make a statement.

The article doesn't say anything close to what you claim. No matter how much you want to cherry pick it.



Riddle me this... how is it that I can pull up flu vaccination rates, overlay that on COVID cases, and note an interesting "ah ha" that seems to be a consistent pattern...
What pattern? You know that COVID-19 is new, right? Are you saying that the pandemic was caused by some sort of "tipping point" in the number of vaccinations? Just lurking, and waiting?


New Jersey and Alabama requite flu shots for LTC facility patients - where do we have the most COVID deaths? Nursing homes!:
Yeah. It's known that old people tend to get hit much harder by the disease. Now, how about kids? Don't they get flu shots?



Maybe there's some there, there - maybe there isn't. In this case, it's highly interesting.

Maybe there's something here, too. Does organic food cause autism?



edit on 8/5/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 06:11 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

I’m confused by your post. You’re stating contradictory information. In one, you cite a study that shows that those who have had the common cold or flu in the past may not be as likely to get COVID-19. Then you wildly speculate the very opposite of that - that people who get the flu shot will give them COVID-19. Your second part is very much incorrect and way off base. And now the peanut gallery is joining in bragging how they never ever got the flu vaccine.

I have gotten the flu vaccine every year. I heard on the news today that those who get regular flu vaccines are more immune to COVID-19 and if they get it, may get a milder version of it.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: ChiefD

The article makes no mention of flu. Which makes sense, since influenza is not a coronavirus.


I heard on the news today that those who get regular flu vaccines are more immune to COVID-19 and if they get it, may get a milder version of it.
I can find no mention of such a claim. Perhaps you misunderstood the point. If you do catch the flu, it can mess up your lungs. If you then catch COVID-19, that would be bad. COVID-19 with a comorbidity factor is more dangerous.


edit on 8/5/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: Phage

Thanks for the correction Phage. I got what I heard on the radio mixed up with the post.



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser

I'm in the right thread but I'm in the wrong world.




So saying that to call me out is just stupid.

Not directed at you personally but in general terms.
Sorry for the confusion amigo.


edit on 5-8-2020 by carsforkids because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2020 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: EnigmaChaser

I'm in the right thread but I'm in the wrong world.




So saying that to call me out is just stupid.

Not directed at you personally but in general terms.
Sorry for the confusion amigo.



All good man!




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