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Hey Suburban Voters, Joe Biden's Housing Policies Will Ruin Your Communities

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posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: strongfp


What I meant by expensive to be poor, is people who are genuinely trying to 'dig' their way out, spend far more time and energy to just survive, let alone better themselves to achieve that American dream.

I kinda had that impression, but the way you phrased it was just...

!!!!!

The thing is, we cannot help the poor to keep up with the Joneses, and that is what that baseline you speak of really is. Well-to-do people can't keep up with the Joneses, because the Joneses keep moving the goalposts. Instead, we need to stop the class warfare. OK, so you don't have as much as I do... I don't care! You got a new home theater with 3D 4K UHDTV and Dolby Surround Sound. OK, great! I'd rather have a house that doesn't pretend to be made of Swiss cheese whenever the wind blows.

We do that by establishing certain standards that can be met as a baseline. Honesty costs nothing. Integrity costs nothing. Ambition costs nothing. We can all achieve those. Back during the Great Depression, people had very little, but they appreciated what they had. So your house has a dirt floor. Is it a clean dirt floor? Do you mess in a corner or take the time to walk outside? That's not a question of ability; it's a question of character.

That is also an implication on all of society. We need to figure out that some things can't be priced for sale... and usually those things are the most important.

TheRedneck




posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

Because it's racialized horsecrap based on the immutable characteristics of individuals. It is a racist ideology and should be stamped out everywhere it lurks.


No it's not, it's transient thinking in fact, probably not everyone's cup of tea, likely a science in transit, which is somehow, strangely scientific.



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 07:11 PM
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originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: projectvxn

Because it's racialized horsecrap based on the immutable characteristics of individuals. It is a racist ideology and should be stamped out everywhere it lurks.


No it's not, it's transient thinking in fact, probably not everyone's cup of tea, likely a science in transit, which is somehow, strangely scientific.


You do realize that the concept of "transient thinking" is literally emptying your head and not thinking about anything in any deep manner, yes? You are championing air headedness.



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: strongfp


Considering majority of jobs and careers are literally through word of mouth, friends and family, opportunity is definitely 'given', in most situations. Some people are NEVER given this chance, they are born poor, and stay working and living poor. They never see a drop of inheritance, or any sort of forgiveness that people who are born into middle or upper middle class families offer their children.

But the majority of jobs are not limited to friends and family. That's a myth. Maybe it's true in the upper echelons, but not in the average career.

Anyone can network. Anyone. It may be harder for some, but all networking is, is making new acquaintances and impressing them. I did that when I was young and poor... I managed to get a job hauling hay for less than minimum wage (but more than I could make sitting on my butt or getting into trouble). That farmer told another farmer I did a good job. That farmer told two more. They told even more. After maybe a year I could pick and choose what fields I wanted to work. The fact that I still chose as many as I possibly could just helped that reputation.

These were not "friends and family." I never worked for family, and I knew none of these farmers until I worked for them.

Then when I went to get a full-time job, I had references to put down on the application. I worked hard and smart, made acquaintances at work, and many times I have run into them again working somewhere else... and they would put in a good word for me. That's networking. And it doesn't cost a dime, nor does it depend on having influential friends and family.


You're putting the blame back on people as if they can't work hard or refuse as much to do so. How about the situation where people are busted for petty crimes, like having some drugs on them, sent off to a private prison, forced to work for near slave wages, and then thrown out into the streets, in debt, criminal record, etc. The US has a prison population unheard of around the world. And that affects MILLIONs of citizens.

Part of the blame does belong there. A lot of it is laziness; let's be honest here. The typical ghetto-dweller doesn't know how to work or what is expected of them.

The other issues are another matter. Yes, they contribute to this one, but they have to be solved on their own. Of course, if someone prefers sitting around taking illicit drugs to honest work, that's completely on them. I know of one family member of a friend who fell into that trap. Last I heard he was in jail and no one in his family would even try to get him out. He was offered all the help in the world, opportunity after opportunity, and turned them all down. His father left him a bunch of construction equipment he knew how to use and I personally offered him a job graveling our driveway... just show up and you have the job. Instead, he ignored every attempt to find him and wound up selling all of that equipment for literally pennies on the dollar. Literally. As in a fully operational dozer for $1500.

No one can help someone like that. No one.


Sure you can comfortably say "yea son just give them a big ol firm handshake and get a job!" or tell people "to just work harder". But life isn't like that. It's only like that if your social status isn't one thing, poor.

That's not what I am saying. I am actually proposing a kind of limited "affirmative action" for those who need it. There is a certain amount of pride in a job well done and a lesson well-learned.

Some kid could get a job repainting the buildings, for instance, and wind up having his own painting operation. Another one might be on the paving crew... it's hard, hard work, but it also pays decent and there's the possibility of learning to actually run the equipment and moving into an easier job. Someone could get work installing cables, and be inspired to become a lineman... or dare I say, a technician or even an engineer!

The obstacle they face is the starting point. What I propose gives them that starting point. How high they climb from there is up to them.


This is a solution, that involves opportunities, hmm. And government to a certain extant. You seem to have backtracked a little here. I am in favor of situations like this, the more it involves the struggling communities the better.

I have proposed this exact same thing before on these boards. There is no backtracking, except maybe from what you thought I would say. I am not incompassionate; I am realistic.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar


Now, that property is just as valuable as any other place in town.

Part of that is a side effect of welfare. The commercial value of a building depends on how much the owner can make from it. In the case of subsidized housing, that''s a guaranteed income... you know ahead of time that the inhabitants are not going to run out of rent money because the government is paying their rent! That makes the properties worth much more than they would be without welfare, and means it is impossible for anyone in the position of renting to ever hope to actually buy their home.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

You can blame people you don't know for their short comings all you want. And you can try to keep beating that 'reality' drum, but the reality isn't what you think it is, by far. Poverty and below middle class status is swept under the rug, and when you see it, it's a sore sight and you assume, you know what they say about that don't you?



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




But the majority of jobs are not limited to friends and family. That's a myth. Maybe it's true in the upper echelons, but not in the average career.

Anyone can network. Anyone. It may be harder for some, but all networking is, is making new acquaintances and impressing them. I did that when I was young and poor... I managed to get a job hauling hay for less than minimum wage (but more than I could make sitting on my butt or getting into trouble). That farmer told another farmer I did a good job. That farmer told two more. They told even more. After maybe a year I could pick and choose what fields I wanted to work. The fact that I still chose as many as I possibly could just helped that reputation.

These were not "friends and family." I never worked for family, and I knew none of these farmers until I worked for them.

Then when I went to get a full-time job, I had references to put down on the application. I worked hard and smart, made acquaintances at work, and many times I have run into them again working somewhere else... and they would put in a good word for me. That's networking. And it doesn't cost a dime, nor does it depend on having influential friends and family.


Ah yes, just network. Give em the old firm handshake LOOK em in the eye and say what you mean!

always works doesn't it. What if the only networking you have is the boys down the road slinging crack to earn a quick buck?




Part of the blame does belong there. A lot of it is laziness; let's be honest here. The typical ghetto-dweller doesn't know how to work or what is expected of them.

The other issues are another matter. Yes, they contribute to this one, but they have to be solved on their own. Of course, if someone prefers sitting around taking illicit drugs to honest work, that's completely on them. I know of one family member of a friend who fell into that trap. Last I heard he was in jail and no one in his family would even try to get him out. He was offered all the help in the world, opportunity after opportunity, and turned them all down. His father left him a bunch of construction equipment he knew how to use and I personally offered him a job graveling our driveway... just show up and you have the job. Instead, he ignored every attempt to find him and wound up selling all of that equipment for literally pennies on the dollar. Literally. As in a fully operational dozer for $1500.

No one can help someone like that. No one.


Stop putting majority of the blame on poor. What if all those poor people couldn't afford rent one day because the government allowed for unlimited rent increases? Then what?




I have proposed this exact same thing before on these boards. There is no backtracking, except maybe from what you thought I would say. I am not incompassionate; I am realistic.


That's fair, but you did just backtrack in that comment...



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: projectvxn

Because it's racialized horsecrap based on the immutable characteristics of individuals. It is a racist ideology and should be stamped out everywhere it lurks.


No it's not, it's transient thinking in fact, probably not everyone's cup of tea, likely a science in transit, which is somehow, strangely scientific.


You do realize that the concept of "transient thinking" is literally emptying your head and not thinking about anything in any deep manner, yes? You are championing air headedness.


I'm glad you read my post at least once, that means there is not such a thing as empty space, so I agree you are not an airhead.



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 08:19 PM
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a reply to: strongfp


You can blame people you don't know for their short comings all you want.

And you can keep throwing money at the problem, watch it worsen, and demand more money to throw at it again.

The fact is, you can't help someone by implicitly condoning the actions that cause their problems. You will never convince everyone else to change everything about society because these "poor innocent angels" don't play by the same rules as everyone else. All you will accomplish is continuing the problem for perpetuity.


Ah yes, just network. Give em the old firm handshake LOOK em in the eye and say what you mean!

always works doesn't it. What if the only networking you have is the boys down the road slinging crack to earn a quick buck?

Yes, it always works.

Are you telling me that everyone in these urban jungles just wants to sling crack? If that's the case, then I retract my plan. Euthanasia is the only way to clean up that situation.

Fortunately, I still believe there is hope for these people.


Stop putting majority of the blame on poor. What if all those poor people couldn't afford rent one day because the government allowed for unlimited rent increases? Then what?

Stop giving them a free pass to whatever demons they need to be fighting.

If frogs could fly, they wouldn't bump their butts trying to get around. Any more hypotheticals you need to spread around?


That's fair, but you did just backtrack in that comment...

This may be hard for you to comprehend, but I do not always think what you think I think.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck




And you can keep throwing money at the problem, watch it worsen, and demand more money to throw at it again.

The fact is, you can't help someone by implicitly condoning the actions that cause their problems. You will never convince everyone else to change everything about society because these "poor innocent angels" don't play by the same rules as everyone else. All you will accomplish is continuing the problem for perpetuity.


I never once advocated for this.

The way I see reality is to think of worst case scenario and work my way up to a optimal 'working' condition of life, and build from there. I never ever think of best case scenario because it's unrealistic. Majority of opportunities aren't earned, they are given. The job I currently have was by pure luck. I worked with guys who were landed migrant workers just wandering down a wrong alley and asked to work, and bam they had a job for life.
It's always been like that, especially in dense urban centers, maybe in no - where town you 'work hard' for a job, but don't pretend you weren't talked about or refereed by someone else.
Human's are social creatures, don't pretend social status doesn't play a role in how successful or what opportunities are given out based on that social structure, which we recognize now, so why continue to play that game?
edit on 3-8-2020 by strongfp because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 09:06 PM
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a reply to: strongfp


The way I see reality is to think of worst case scenario and work my way up to a optimal 'working' condition of life, and build from there.

Then you see reality unrealistically.

There have been times in my life when I was able to help people who were in this kind of situation. Some of them it worked; others it didn't. The difference wasn't in what I was doing; it was in what the people I tried to help were doing. The simple fact is that there are some people no one can save from themselves.

I happen to believe these are the minority and that the majority can be helped. I will not implicitly condemn those who can be saved over those few who cannot. Whether you admit it or not, that is your "reality."


It's always been like that, especially in dense urban centers, maybe in no - where town you 'work hard' for a job, but don't pretend you weren't talked about or refereed by someone else.

I specifically stated I was talked about and referred by other people. That's how I progressed. I showed up at the job, ready to work, and worked my butt off. I wanted the boss to refer me; I wanted the boss to talk about me. That's how it works.

I have also had bosses who lied to others about me because I wouldn't kiss their butts. OK, crap happens. I didn't sit down and cry a river over it; I went back to doing what worked before, and it worked again... and again... and again...


Human's are social creatures, don't pretend social status doesn't play a role in how successful or what opportunities are given out based on that social structure, which we recognize now, so why continue to play that game?

Of course social status matters. It always has. It always will. That's just human nature.

But social class in this country can change. A person can start off dirt poor and become wealthy if they're willing to do what it takes. Look at Will Smith... movie star, celebrity, fame and fortune... but he came from the ghetto. He learned to rap, used that to increase his social status, got a gig on "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air," catapulted that into a movie career, and now he's upper class. Is he some sort of superman? No... just a guy with the drive and the tenacity to keep pushing forward.

I want every single person living in the misery that urban neighborhoods have become to make that same leap out. Every single one. I know they won't all succeed, but I want as many to succeed as possible.

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

Ya, well a good deal of that subsidized housing was owned by local politicians who either were holding office, or had held office in the recent past in my hometown. The "poor" did benefit some. I grew up in the downtown area and had friends in the flats, which was just walking distance away. In a apartment that was above a store, next to a bar/hotel. My backyard was the roof of the downstairs store. I dont remember that much about the place but I do remember the old pipe that ran through the kitchen. It would often come apart and fill out kitchen with soot and ash. While there was a door going out to the roof. There was no exit off the roof so we only had one exit out of the building. It wouldnt have passed HUD subsidized standards in other words. Most of my friends homes were also pretty crappy by today's standards. The school wasnt in much better shape and we had dust and crap falling into our food in the cafeteria. So, ya, the poor benefitted some. But I kind of think those politicians knew a good thing when they saw it and benefitted much more. Subsidies to revitalize those run down places as well as to build new ones along with a guarenteed income from them that was mostly free from any real economic market restraints.
So, people can blame the "poor" all they want, but I think it was more the greed of the not so poor and their willingness to take advantage of the political clout they had and the programs that were made available to help the poor that did the most damage.



posted on Aug, 3 2020 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

And I know you aren't thinking that the greed will not extend to the federal government should the horrible Biden/Booker plan, amirite?
98% of the country will suffer should that happen.

Only the uber rich, politicians and corporations will profit.



posted on Aug, 4 2020 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

If you think thats how it works for an average inner city poor neighborhood dweller, then theres some serious ignorance going on. I dont mean that in an insult type way either, but just in the truest sense of the word. You just dont know.

The rules and opportunities as an African American kid in the ghetto are completely different than the ones you had. Not even in the same ballpark. Im qualified to speak on this... as I have the unique background of being a white kid who grew up in a poor black neighborhood.

-Some of these kids, teens, parents would kill to bale hay for less than minimum wage... but in the ghetto.. the population density is wild. A household sometimes has multiple sets of kids, uncles, aunts and grandparents.. people live on top of eachother in projects and duplexes...
Theyre in the middle of the city, theres no hay to be bailed. Theres twice as many people as there are jobs that exist for them. The kids cant cut grass.. they dont have a mower.. and guess what, no one will lay them to do it either... because the neighbors have no money either. The slumlords dont even take care of it. There are so few HONEST ways to make a buck theyre stuck.

-Network, shake hands? That worked for me.. because Im white. Venturing out into different neighborhoods, different business districts looking for work was way easier for me than my friends... people looked at me as a young hungry kid just wanting to work hard and earn money... my friends? People viewed them as ghetto kids who would probably beat them up, steal from them, just by how they looked without even giving them a chance.. at all.. because of how they looked. People were suspicious of them, and doubted their work ethic before seeing them do anything, or even letting them get a single word out.

- Fast food and retail... thats where most people in impoverished areas work. You see people in middle class areas when I grew up had computers at homes, the parents had office jobs... kids learned higher level skills at home simply being around their parents and having access to their things. Sometimes they got internships at their larents/families/friends workplaces...People in impoverished areas usually have low level low skilled employment... so the kids in those homes dont have that experience and knowledge being passed. Also, their neighbors dont have those jobs either, its not something theyre even exposed to... friends and neighbors cant help eachother out because theyre either jobless or also have low level work...

You dont realize the multitude of factors that go into this...

Population density, job economy, public perception of you, what tools you have access to, what mentors you have access to, they types of people you see and interact with daily, the effects of poverty on your mental health and brain elasticity, access to quality education...



posted on Aug, 4 2020 @ 04:45 AM
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Do you people realize how many "poor" blacks in the hood, stuck in these terrible ghettos with no hope of getting out....... work at Fords making $80k a year?
They live there by choice, their kids attend Detroit public schools.... by choice
They drive Escalades, have $10,000 worth of gold teeth, wear nothing but designer clothes, brag that their glasses cost $2000, their tennis shoes cost $300.
They live ghetto, because they like ghetto. You can scoff, you can call me whatever adjective you like.... but I spent 20years observing what was going on around me trying to make sense of something..... that made no sense at all.

Please do not spout off on I am lumping all people into 1 mold.... it is a tired, ineffective argument.



posted on Aug, 4 2020 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: Lucidparadox

OK, then what do you suggest to fix the issue? What will give these folks a chance?

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 4 2020 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

So in some ways the reverse of redlining? That’s a good thing.



posted on Aug, 4 2020 @ 09:04 AM
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originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: projectvxn

Because it's racialized horsecrap based on the immutable characteristics of individuals. It is a racist ideology and should be stamped out everywhere it lurks.


No it's not, it's transient thinking in fact, probably not everyone's cup of tea, likely a science in transit, which is somehow, strangely scientific.


BS critical theory brings us racist math and 2+2=5:


"Strangely scientific".

Sorry, couldn't roll my eyes that far into the back of my head.

What utter nonsense.



edit on 8 4 2020 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2020 @ 09:15 AM
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a reply to: scauma
???????
I am unclear what you thing is the good news part??



posted on Aug, 4 2020 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Lucidparadox

OK, then what do you suggest to fix the issue? What will give these folks a chance?

TheRedneck


1. De-segregate our country's neighborhoods. Using initiatives like the one detailed in this thread. To be 100% honest with you, I dont have any fresh Ideas on how to do that.

2. Increase our education budgets. Somehow the schools in the city with the most students get less funding that suburban schools. Increase voucher programs that allow inner city students to attend suburban schools/private schools... AND create unique, higher education advancement programs in the inner city schools and allow students from the suburbs to participate


3. Create a Federal program for the homeless, wherein they personally are hired to help BUILD public housing. They learn construction trades and after its all done they have job experience, a little cash, and a place to live that they helped build.

4. Bring back public mental health institutions.

5. Laws that make sure residents in gentrifying neighborhoods are treated fairly, are offered fair money for their property, and are offered reduced cost housing in new developments for a time period.



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