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Another ufo researcher bites the dust

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posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 03:57 PM
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A quick question inbetween watching the squabbles over Dolan and comments been said re his wife.

I seem to have read that Tracey was involved with Ramtha School of Enlightenment.

Isnt Ramtha a charleton? So Dolans Mrs is involved or was involved with a charleton/cult school??







edit on 6-8-2020 by Baablacksheep because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 05:28 PM
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a reply to: JimOberg

Sorry, but I fail to understand your point here. I have never said he has made mistakes, or had bad sources. I have made that clear in this thread many times.

My point is, thst their is no evidence that he is deliberatly lying, or a con man, like a few arm chair debunkers have said in this thread.

And you also said you never detected any indication he's not sincere and genuinel enthusiastic. So, I really do not know what you are getting at here.

I quoted you because I knew it would a confuse the arm debunker, and it did.



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 05:31 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris

I think the point is, does he correct those mistakes? Or does he perpetuate them by ignoring them?

edit on 8/6/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Jay-morris

I think the point is, does he correct those mistakes? Or does he perpetuate them by ignoring them?


If he is chosen to be completly wrong, then why would he just ignore it. Define whst is wrong?

Let's use rendlesham as an example. Certain people think part of the sightingbis explained by the light house. To to them, it has been debunked. So if you disagree, or ignore that explanation, does that mean you are lying, or refusing to believe the explanation?

My point is, and always has been thst he is not a con man, and their is no evidence thst he is.



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris




Define whst is wrong?
A claim demonstrated to be erroneous.

Aldrin's "UFO."
Apollo 8 "Santa Claus."


edit on 8/6/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 06:04 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Jay-morris




Define whst is wrong?
A claim demonstrated to be erroneous.

Aldrin's "UFO."
Apollo 8 "Santa Claus."



Have you heard dolan Solana response to this? Do you know if he has a response?



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

You might already be familiar with Kevin Randle's blog( 1 , 2 ) on the issue.

As usual, the comments are entertaining as Klass's little band of merry men try to defend this first rate loser. It appears there is no proof of the claim, although it certainly wouldnt be shocking if true...

Kevin also links to the dark side with their explanation.

More fromBilly Cox(De Void), always a good read..



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris

No.
That's why I asked you.



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: Jay-morris


You try to convince everyone that Dolan is an honest esteemed respectable authority and you avoid to adress any questions posed

We got a saying here, no matter how much sugar you put to fecal matter it doesnt become a chocolate cake


No matter how much you defend Dolan and deflect facts here , Dolan is and will be a conman, a scammer, a snake oil peddler, a bad researcher.



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 08:37 PM
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[Sorry, this reply was longer than I anticipated and somewhat off-topic, but what the hell, eh?]


originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

You might already be familiar with Kevin Randle's blog( 1 , 2 ) on the issue.

It appears there is no proof of the claim, although it certainly wouldnt be shocking if true...


Thanks for the links.

I assume poster NoCorruptionAllowed is either still looking for the evidence of further bribes by Klass, or has silently backed down after reading your post.

Klass had a formidable mind, but an appalling method of dealing with his subjects gracefully - to put it mildly in some cases! He was what one could call ufology's equivalent of a "Shock Jock". If he'd moderated his own attitude, many more may have been drawn to his cause.

In the meantime, throughout 70 years of UFO reports, the 1975 Walton case remains one of the handful that still intrigue me. It is arguably one of the most EPIC cases, and ironically, as a result of that grandness in scope and originality, it is just as easily mocked and attacked, too. The contemporaneous transmission of the Betty & Barney Hill TV movie, 'The UFO Incident', didn't help matters, nor did the photo of Walton and the others proudly displaying a cheque they received from The National Enquirer - but how many other folks would turn down $2500, especially if the story were genuine?

Walton's actual abduction and attendant descriptions of his alleged experiences in a craft, plus his 'return to Earth' some time later, were not the focus of my old thread, rather the veracity of the actual "fire in the sky" reported by the six co-witnesses. I concluded that they did indeed see something strange that night, and I don't discard the 'beam' that hit Walton, although there are early recorded phone calls to UFO researchers from friends of the seven men, that do NOT describe Walton being thrown backwards (as told to them), rather he 'crumpled' to the floor where he was standing. Reason for concern? Or simply misremembered? Does it even matter?

Nevertheless, it's intriguing to speculate about exactly WHAT they saw above the trees. Did Walton, as some allege, set up the entire incident with Mike Rogers, without informing the other five men? Indeed, it seems the men felt extremely anguished since they were genuinely under suspicion for murder whilst Walton was missing. (I can't recall any other case that included a police investigation aside from the classic case of mild-mannered and locally trusted Robert Taylor (1979) in Scotland who claimed to see a large spherical object in woods whilst walking his dog. The object emitted smaller versions of itself that attacked him and tried to lift him upwards. His clothes were damaged and the case remains open, indeed the only UFO case in history that remains open as the subject of a criminal investigation for 'Assault'.)

Was it, as The GUT speculated in my thread, a Military Abduction? Was the beam of light from a helicopter of sorts? There was indeed military activity in the area around that time, but how likely is that theory?

As you can see, it's a wonderful case, packed with so many questions, plenty of answers, even without considering the greater details of Walton's own controversial abduction story.

And this is why I shall miss ATS.



edit on 6-8-2020 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: 111DPKING111
I liked the early stuff I read from him, but he is a little on the gullible side and the alien slide thing didnt help.
I'm not sure how gullible he is. As I mentioned earlier he mentioned people have told him the "UFO" in the STS-51 video was a droplet of water or some liquid inside the craft, yet he's still refusing to accept that obviously correct explanation, seems more like willful ignorance than gullibility.

The Roswell slides event was bad. To me, one of the worst parts of that story, is how Dolan defended the known hoaxer Jaime Maussan, who set up the "Big Reveal" for the Roswell slides in an auditorium and charged from $20-$80 for people to attend in person and $20 to watch on pay-per-view. Jaime Maussan's hoax of the metepec creature was exposed on Forgetomori, FIVE YEARS before Maussan's big reveal on the Roswell slides hoax.

The Jaime Maussan Metepec Creature Confirmed as a Hoax


forgetomori.com...



A “Veterinary Assistant” featured in the whole Metepec Creature brouhaha, “Ángel Palacios Núñez”, is, according to Alejandro Franz, in fact Urso Moreno Ruíz, nephew of Mario Moreno, and a taxidermist.

More importantly, Urso Ruíz apparently confessed in an Internet forum he indeed hoaxed the creature, which is indeed just a squirrel-monkey:

“It’s just the corpse of a skinned squirrel-monkey. I took its ears out and involved it with all the hair and fluids of all animals I could find, then I dried it. All samples they take of it will come out as being of different animals.”

He goes on:

“Mr Mario quickly sold it to Maussán for 300.000 pesos [U$23,000], as you can see after four years they still can’t realize it’s a hoax.”

And tries to defend himself:

“I must say I didn’t claim it was real. That was Maussán who claimed it was real. He believed it. All the show was a hoax that got out of control, but after four years I’m happy to see one of my creations going around the world and through many scientists and tests and they still haven’t figured out what it is. I may have fooled science! LOL”

Nauseating, isn’t it?
There's more, but that should be enough to give the picture that Maussan paid a taxidermist about $23,000 to make this fake alien out of a squirrel monkey corpse with lots of other DNA mixed in so nobody could do a DNA analysis to determine what it was.

Fast forward from 2010 to 2015 to the event mentioned in the opening post of this thread, about the Roswell slides:

originally posted by: IMSAM
Greetings and welcome to the IMSAM show were every week we fight the good fight, Today our guest is Dolan.
1.The roswell slides fiasco

Back in 2015 there was this ufo fair in Mexico called BEwitness hosted by Maussan, with "great" researchers like Bragalia, Schmitt,Carey,Maussan and of course Dolan. The subject was an alien dead body found at the Roswell crash of all places.



What was this though? this was the body of a mummified child .
See that white rectangle covering one of the legs? Advanced photo analysis was able to read part of what that placard says, "MUMMIFIED BODY OF TWO YEAR OLD BOY" and part of the following text could be guessed at also.

So who was the man who set up the conference charging people $20-$80 to attend the event, and charging $20 to watch on pay-per-view? Jaime Maussan!

Those slides never had nothing to do with Roswell, which to Dolan's credit, he did say he thought the link to Roswell was questionable, though he still thought the slides were interesting. So linking the slides to Roswell was the hoax in that case, and Dolan didn't completely fall for that, but he did defend Maussan as if he didn't know what a bad hoaxer Maussan was.

Richard Dolan's Post Regarding the Roswell Slides, 24 May 2015


I do not think any of this is a hoax.
Again the slide appears to be real, it's the claim the slides had anything to do with Roswell that's a hoax, and that's what people were saying, why they were called "The Roswell Slides". The Placard states S.L. Palmer Jr, brought the body to the Park Museum in 1938, and further research shows the probable origin of the child mummy, from an excavation in 1896:

Ruins in the Verde Valley

The excavation revealed, among the skeletal remains of several individuals, a child mummy wrapped in cloth and buried with several artifacts. Palmer recalled removing the mummy and other items he found in the ruins.


So getting back to Dolan's post, even though the placard had already been shown to say "MUMMIFIED BODY OF TWO YEAR OLD BOY" weeks before the event, and Maussan was informed of this so he could cancel the event and not defraud people, Maussan went ahead with the event anyway! So the attacks on Maussan for going ahead were well deserved but Dolan still defended Maussan for a couple of days after the event.


Finally, I suppose I am disappointed by the unprofessional invective that I have seen from so many people (again, solely in the English-speaking research community). They act like this is Armageddon. The attacks in particular on Jaime Maussan are startling. I am not saying anyone in this field is perfect. But I know Jaime and have seen him at work first-hand. I know he cares about the truth.
How can Dolan say Maussan "cares about the truth" 5 years after it was revealed Maussan paid a taxidermist to hoax the metepec creature? The same Maussan who was told weeks before his "Roswell Slides" event that the placard said , "MUMMIFIED BODY OF TWO YEAR OLD BOY", but Maussan didn't cancel the event, and still charged people to attend what he then had known for weeks was a hoax. Dolan comments on fees too:


I suppose the other complaint I hear is that the event charged people to attend. That the slides were not put up for free. Frankly, this is something I expect to hear from children. Research costs money. Jaime and Adam Dew did not simply want to toss the slides out there to the world before they themselves had strong analyses performed on them. How is that unreasonable? Doing so, however, costs time and money. Nothing is for free in this world. And Jaime, believing these slides to be worthy of significant treatment, wanted a major venue for them. He got it in the National Auditorium of Mexico City, one of the premier places for major events in the entire world. Complaining that he charged money at the gate and $20 for pay per view is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in a long time.
So Dolan is defending one of the worst hoaxers in UFOlogy, in the midst of another hoax, where he charged people to see the hoax.

Then the mummified boy text was made public after the event, and Dolan had no choice but to admit it was a hoax, and Maussan got mad at him anyway after that, so that 2 days of Dolan defending Maussan after the event only made Dolan look ridiculous for defending Maussan.

edit on 202086 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Aug, 6 2020 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

You might already be familiar with Kevin Randle's blog( 1 , 2 ) on the issue.

As usual, the comments are entertaining as Klass's little band of merry men try to defend this first rate loser. It appears there is no proof of the claim, although it certainly wouldnt be shocking if true...

Kevin also links to the dark side with their explanation.

More fromBilly Cox(De Void), always a good read..
It's nice to see you actually did some research, even if I don't agree with you calling Robert Sheaffer's blog "dark side", at least you know about it and linked to it.



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 07:45 AM
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Th original question in the OP was actually


"At how many mistakes can we safely say someone is a charlatan? Is one enough? Two? Three?


Many of the comments defending Dolan contain things that save people from having to search details or cite sources and things like real facts. A lot of superficiality and little substance.

So how many mistakes make him incompetent if he's not a charlatan?

1. Roswell slides. Dolan supported them until the bitter end when the "hoax" was eventually proven. Even the involvement of Jaime Maussan didn't stop him. I don't think we even got an apology

2. Buzz Aldrin's comment about UFOs on the moon. Taken out of context to paint a false story.

3. His assertions that the Wilson/Davis memo and contents are "the leak of the century" and absolutely true. Wilson has denied the meeting ever took place. So Dolan's truth is based on the insisitence that Wilson is lying. As Davis refuses to comment then his case is based on weak foundations.

4. Boyd Bushman deathbed confession. This was another 'mistake'. Bushman even showed Dolan a photo of a real alien. The alien could be bought in Walmart as a toy. Dolan obviously never learned a lesson later when he went full in with the Roswell slides until proven fake.



5. Aztec - Yes it Did Happen [with Richard & Judy]

www.youtube.com...

Aztec is a hoax perpetrated by Silas Newton and Leo Gebauer: en.wikipedia.org...

Trying to revive it as anything else really damages credibility. But this is Dolan and ufology in general. Nothing can be let go of. Even hoaxes.

He even milked it with two further episodes.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

A lot of the Aztec mythology hoax cross pollutes into Roswell. The Holy Grail of ufology. Another story that sits on shaky foundations when you consider that the contemporary reports and Jesse Marcel's testimony included no reports of aliens and the debris was in fact made of rubber, tinfoil, paper and sticks. Strange stuff to make a spaceship out of. Another case Dolan pushes heavily on the side of it being 'alien'.



5. Phil Klass Disinformation Agent. Enough said about that one.

www.youtube.com...

But Phil Klass was a horrible, nasty debunker. So he deserves it. Dolan and his wife just make mistakes.


6. Remote Viewing with Dick/Tracey

www.youtube.com...

Remote viewing is basically imagination and guesswork packaged as a superpower by people like Tracey Dolan.

Many experiments have officially been conducted. Some at great expense. However science has rejected it because of the absence of an evidence base, the lack of a theory which would explain remote viewing, and the lack of experimental techniques which can provide reliably positive results. How is it even linked to unidentified flying objects? Well in Tracy's case she communicates with non-human entities too. Allegedly.

Tracey was also involved with the Ramtha School of Enlightment. A controversial cult like organisation that has been accused of brain-washing amongst other techniques.

A few years ago Richard employed a company 'Pursuing-X' to promote him and run his social media accounts.



The company is run by husband and wife Micheal & Lori Moriarty who were convicted of almost $1m worth of securities fraud between 2004 and 2006. But we'll allow a pass on that 'mistake' as they don't appear to have re-offended since serving their time.

But how many 'mistakes' do we allow the Dolans, and anyone else, before we have to question their competency in this field?









edit on 7/8/2020 by mirageman because: ...bring on the hate.



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: mirageman


Roswell slides. Dolan supported them until the bitter end when the "hoax" was eventually proven. Even the involvement of Jaime Maussan didn't stop him. I don't think we even got an apology


Right off the bat, this one is not true. I remember he even made a statement about it. I will try and find it, but if anyone has it, then please post.

And this is the problem. If the first one you post, is wrong, then you have to ask if this is the usual bashing technique that we see so many times regarding people who study ufos getting bashed.

Actually, I do not believe there is any people who study the subject who has not been bashed.



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur
This post needs to be saved for posterity. He used to be such a great researcher, what happened?



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: mirageman

Roswell slides. Dolan supported them until the bitter end when the "hoax" was eventually proven. Even the involvement of Jaime Maussan didn't stop him. I don't think we even got an apology

Right off the bat, this one is not true. I remember he even made a statement about it. I will try and find it, but if anyone has it, then please post.

And this is the problem. If the first one you post, is wrong, then you have to ask if this is the usual bashing technique that we see so many times regarding people who study ufos getting bashed.
Actually, the first thing MM posted was this:


originally posted by: mirageman
Many of the comments defending Dolan contain things that save people from having to search details or cite sources and things like real facts. A lot of superficiality and little substance.
Jay-morris, you certainly seem to prove mirageman's point true, by claiming he is wrong with no quotes or sources to back up your assertion.

You ask someone else to post evidence of your claim, saying "if anyone has it, then please post".
The "Big Reveal" in Mexico City arranged by Maussan and attended by Dolan was on May 5, 2015.
In my prior post, I provided the link to Dolan's comment the very next day, May 6, 2015, saying "I do not think any of this is a hoax."

Richard Dolan's Post Regarding the Roswell Slides, the day after the "Big Reveal" in Mexico City

Dolan bashes critics who said it was a mummified child's body, and then proceeds to bash those critics for not appreciating the so called "scientific analysis" as if that wasn't all arranged by the same Maussan who paid a taxidermist ~$23,000 to hoax an alien body from a squirrel monkey corpse five years earlier.

So even the day after the reveal, Dolan is still saying it's not a hoax and bashing critics who say it's the mummified body of a child, and defending hoaxer Maussan by saying "I know he cares about the truth" even though the same Maussan paid a taxidermist to hoax an alien.


originally posted by: johnthejedi24
a reply to: Arbitrageur
This post needs to be saved for posterity. He used to be such a great researcher, what happened?
I think Dolan did start out as a good researcher with good intentions.

I think the problem happens when the researcher realizes that if the research leads to answers, that can shut down their business, because once you have the answer, why do you need further research? So, for people who try to make a career out of this topic, I think a self-interest develops in NOT finding the answers, so there can still be mysteries to talk about.

So even though Buzz Aldrin tells a story about a mysterious "UFO" and then gives the answer, Dolan re-tells the same exact story, but doesn't include the answer; it's a perfect example. At some point I'm sure Dolan realized a huge part of his target audience "wants to believe" as the poster says, and so he can get away with sloppy "research" and even defending hoaxes, if he's telling them what they want to hear. I think some in Dolan's audience don't really WANT to know the rest of Buzz Aldrin's UFO story, so they can use it to support whatever beliefs they have. Dolan would spoil that for his audience, if he gave them Buzz Aldrin's answer, that Buzz gave on the Larry King show.

edit on 202087 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: mirageman




Trying to revive it as anything else really damages credibility. But this is Dolan and ufology in general. Nothing can be let go of. Even hoaxes.


This is a very astute point.

Ufology is in bad shape by its very nature since known and proven hoaxes, and false events can merely be recycled, repackaged over time by scammers to incite new and naïve people new to ufology. And not all have to be FAKE hoaxes like Serpo. Legitimate and honest researchers can be fooled.

One can just say: I believe in the hoax, or false event and the proof that it isn’t a hoax is that the government covered it up like they did to Lazar by sheep dipping his FAKE history.

So the very nature of government secret activity works to inherently make Ufology difficult to impossible to ever confirm events.

Then the nature of reporting where its legit to quote unamed sources who don’t want to be identified then the reporter can relay anything: such and such said aliens came from the moon.


edit on 7-8-2020 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 01:27 PM
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As far as I know Dolan had nothing to do with the Boyd Bushman, as far as I know the interviews were conducted by David Sereda, but I may be wrong about it.



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur

I was talking about the Roswell slides. He wrote, and I quote.


1. Roswell slides. Dolan supported them until the bitter end when the "hoax" was eventually proven. Even the involvement of Jaime Maussan didn't stop him. I don't think we even got an apology


Dolan has spoken about this a few times. And his explanation was basically someone who made a mistake.

This is what Dolan said about this incident
LINK


Since returning from Mexico City, I have been in communication with many people regarding the so-called Roswell slides. I attended the event in the first place because it seemed to have the potential to unveil important information. I had not seen the slides beforehand, but did have conversations with some of the principals who had. During those conversations, I was also told about the analyses performed on them. So I decided to go, and at no point was I ever asked to endorse the slides.


Yes yes, I know this is not going to make a difference to the people who will refuse to shift their stance, but this show, esp with the Roswell slides, this was a mistake on his part, and nothing to do eith him bring a con man or Charletan.

Problem is fanatical debunkers want him to be a con man and charletan, and that will never change sadly.



posted on Aug, 7 2020 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: IMSAM
a reply to: Jay-morris


You try to convince everyone that Dolan is an honest esteemed respectable authority and you avoid to adress any questions posed

We got a saying here, no matter how much sugar you put to fecal matter it doesnt become a chocolate cake


No matter how much you defend Dolan and deflect facts here , Dolan is and will be a conman, a scammer, a snake oil peddler, a bad researcher.


What are you talking about! You have posted no evidence at all that he is a Charlatan or con man. Not even one bit!
Yes, it shows he has made mistakes, but sorry, thst does not equal con man or charlatan, no matter how much you want it too.




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