What Does Meaningful Law Enforcement And Criminal Justice Reform Look Like?

originally posted by: M5xaz
No, again incorrect.

In 2020, so far this year NYC murders are up 29% over 2019.

I already said your first article said February and that they were down at that time YoY.

But I get that you're pro for profit prisons and support that we have the largest per capita prison population in the world. Most large government fascists are for these things.

All of this defend the police crap is just that, crap. There is a portion of society that does not want to live by its rules. At what point do you decide that a crime isn't worth arresting someone over. Non violent offenders is misleading too. I enjoy looking at the arrest records of local people that make the news. What I've found is drug offenders, besides the drugs, also tend to steal and be violent. The prosecutors are so lenient with their plea deals that felonies get dropped to disorderly conduct with probation only. This means that in the end they are considered non violent because they weren't convicted on the violent charge. Pandering to the criminals is only going to make it worse.

I do agree however that a big city needs to hurry up, defend the police, and get their army of social workers responding to 911 calls. I wonder how many social workers will need to be injured or die before that nonsense comes to an end.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: M5xaz
No, again incorrect.

In 2020, so far this year NYC murders are up 29% over 2019.

I already said your first article said February and that they were down at that time YoY.

But I get that you're pro for profit prisons and support that we have the largest per capita prison population in the world. Most large government fascists are for these things.

No.

I am pro real common sense and public safety as opposed to a superficial virtue signalling supporter of criminals
Enjoy getting robbed !

alphanewsmn.com...

originally posted by: M5xaz
I am pro real common sense and public safety as opposed to a superficial virtue signalling supporter of criminals.

No, you aren't. You're pro-statist, big-government authoritarian. You fauxservatives are comical.

Enjoy getting robbed !

"I'm a hysteric and I approve this message!"

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: M5xaz
I am pro real common sense and public safety as opposed to a superficial virtue signalling supporter of criminals.

No, you aren't. You're pro-statist, big-government authoritarian. You fauxservatives are comical.

Enjoy getting robbed !

"I'm a hysteric and I approve this message!"

A conservative is by definition NOT a statist

Your proposed "reforms" have been tried and PROVEN to be a FAILURE and HARM PEOPLE.

But...you clearly do not care about harm...virtue signaling is more important for you....

originally posted by: M5xaz
A conservative is by definition NOT a statist

No, that's why I said you're a fauxservative.

Your proposed "reforms" have been tried and PROVEN to be a FAILURE and HARM PEOPLE.

My 'proposed reforms' have no occurred with any meaningful effort including ending not for profit prisons which statists like you are for. Feed more people in and turn them into life time criminals, all because of the amount of absurd laws we have on the books to keep the big government advocates like you happy.

I think I'll start in with some general opinion. Here's one of the thoughts that I wanted to express in this type of discussion. It's not so much a point of suggested reform as it is an attempt to describe our problem, at least in part.

I think our recent unrest here is a consequence of our approach to law enforcement, criminal justice, and corrections. Institutions that are contemptuous of the public inspire contempt from the public. This is my opinion, and I'm not going to try to find studies to support this point of view, but I think there's a wealth of anecdotal evidence in the form of individuals that have had the system run roughshod over them and have been left with nothing but contempt for authority as a result of it. This is not as it should be if you want your public to feel like they can trust their institutions.

Excessive use of force, sure. Violating a suspect's rights during an encounter, excessive apprehension and prosecution, and a corrections department that doesn't like to let go of what it gets its hands on don't help inspire respect from the public. In some parts of the US though, some of this behavior that would be considered distasteful by the public is common practice by the authorities.

Whether it is policy and protocol, or simply methods that are part of the culture, I wouldn't know, couldn't tell you. I am not an expert in criminal justice or law enforcement, nor am I or have I ever been employed in such work. Regardless, it doesn't seem like a recipe for success, if you want the public to respect you. If you want more 'repeat customers' in the form of a more unruly public at large, I suppose it might be a good recipe for that kind of stew.

Drug laws that are ultimately victimless crimes, figure into this inspiration of contempt as well in my opinion. By prohibiting these substances in the way that we have, we are socializing anyone who dabbles in them into the criminal element as a matter of course.

What equally concerns me though are the more garden variety 'Intro to Being Institutionalized' courses that are being offered across the nation. Minor offenses that can snowball into other offenses and induct persons into the criminal justice system that might not otherwise be there. I think there was an NPR piece recently on a book about the phenomenon. I think the book was 'Punishment Without Crime'. Perhaps I'll dig up the article.

This post is not meant to be construed as a condemnation of law enforcement or the courts or jails. I'm not trying to make that argument with this post. Lots of our uniformed service men and women do it right all day, every day, I recognize that.

Sometimes it gets done wrong though. In some places in the US, it is consistently done wrong as a matter of procedure. It inspires contempt from those who have been abused by it, and we would do well to recognize and remedy that.

TL;DR: We need way way way more velvet, of a much velvetier quality, on this iron fist of ours.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: M5xaz
A conservative is by definition NOT a statist

No, that's why I said you're a fauxservative.

Your proposed "reforms" have been tried and PROVEN to be a FAILURE and HARM PEOPLE.

My 'proposed reforms' have no occurred with any meaningful effort including ending not for profit prisons which statists like you are for. Feed more people in and turn them into life time criminals, all because of the amount of absurd laws we have on the books to keep the big government advocates like you happy.

They have certainly been tried in multiple places, and failed:
nypost.com...

newyork.cbslocal.com...

www.theepochtimes.com...

alphanewsmn.com...

www.wsj.com...

Anyone coming to harm because of criminal activity is a tragedy.
You would rather take the side of criminals ....speaks to who you are....

a reply to: M5xaz

Take the first one for example, how do you account for the other 90%?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The point is, so called bail reform INCREASES the number of victims.

Take the side of victims, not criminals

a reply to: M5xaz

The point is your data is showing an increase of crime but misrepresenting the data, I expect as much from a paper owned by NewsCorp which is obviously for the status quo, just like you are.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: M5xaz

The point is your data is showing an increase of crime but misrepresenting the data, I expect as much from a paper owned by NewsCorp which is obviously for the status quo, just like you are.

Well, move to Seattle or Portland then and enjoy...Best....

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: M5xaz

The point is your data is showing an increase of crime but misrepresenting the data, I expect as much from a paper owned by NewsCorp which is obviously for the status quo, just like you are.

THIS is the result of your "bail reform":
nypost.com...

"A Brooklyn gang member, released without bail in May on an attempted murder charge, participated in at least three drive-by shootings after he was freed"

Shootings.
Do you even care ?
Or is progressive "virtue signalling" more important than people getting shot ?

I am not the one "misrepresenting"
Throughout this thread, you have not provided sources or references to prove your point.
None.
"Magical thinking" or "because" does not work.

originally posted by: M5xaz
Or is progressive "virtue signalling" more important than people getting shot ?

Funny that you think me, who is a Libertarian, is a Progressive when it was your s****y Republican party which started Progressivism.

I'm for sensible criminal justice reform, the fact that you like to cite the most outlying examples of why it doesn't work shows your are a status quo, big-government authoritarian.

Alison Maynard on Judicial Corruption in the US


It is a long interview. Covers many different topics with the culture, power, systems and issues.

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. Ill try to reply to all of you.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

I think there should be a vehicle or mechanism in place where good cops can speak out about bad cops without retribution. Only someone on the inside would know who is clean and who is dirty. If cops were able to "police" themselves, perhaps they could eliminate the scum that gives them a bad name.

I also think some kind of campaign to let those in poor inner city areas know and understand there is a higher arrest rate there among black kids due to more crime being committed by black kids. If you aren't breaking the law, you should have nothing to fear. (I get that isn't always the case, and that is the part that needs to change) But nobody is without fault here, although some wish it wasn't that way.

I think the infrastructure is already in place to allow police to police themselves, though it doesn't seem to be working as we would hope it might. What needs to change? I don't know. As to the other suggestion, public awareness campaigns aimed at warning minorities, that's an interesting concept. It might be helpful in some areas, though I'm not so sure it would be well received.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

I'll give you a few:

Eliminate police unions
Lower/eliminate sentences for non-violent offenses
Reform the bail process because (hope you like alliteration) it putatively punishes poor people

Perhaps...These seem as though they might be beneficial at first glance, but I'm not so sure that they would as I reflect on them. I'd like to be convinced before I advocated for them.

End for profit prisons
Institute more community policing, i.e. cops walking the beat
Mandatory conflict de-escalation training for all LEO

Totally agree on these last three, though as another poster said, I'd imagine that de-escalation training is already part of most training regimens.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

My view:

- Prison should be a 1 way street. Once you get there, you never get to leave alive
- Death penalty should be abolished. We either value life or we don't.
- The only people who get into prison should be murderers, rapists, child pedos, and people who defraud the economy (Madoff for example)
- The only laws we need in the criminal code relate to violence and loss of personal property. The vice laws are morose. You don't want your man seeing prostitutes, marry someone who wouldn't use a prostitute....but don't tell women "my body my choice" only when it suits you
- Absolutely no military equipment in police hands. The only weapon/equipment available is what civilians can have. Its 2 fold: prevents militarized police, and shuts down the 2A debate
- Most criminal violations should be handled without jails. Violent stuff...jail. Nonviolent stuff....restitution. Thats how it should work.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

De-escalation training may be standard, but its poorly utilized in quite a few cases.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
Somewhere between go stand in the corner and Judge Dread. Different areas and even different individuals will have ideas all along the spectrum and it will be very hard to get a system that we can all agree on. The most important part will be applying it to all based only on the crime committed.

I suppose, but nonetheless there are probably reforms that most could agree on if there were thoughtful discourse taking place on the issue. Instead we've got...well, we don't seem to have much of a thoughtful discourse taking place amongst the public at large on this topic. Society is not having that discussion, though it should be. Sigh.

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

They need to eliminate predatory policing by that I mean when someone gets arrested they tend to get on the radar of the police department and then they tend to keep them in the system by fines and paroles knowing that they do not have the means to pay fines or the discipline to do a parole.

I agree, though I'm not sure what the answer looks like. I'd guess this phenomenon could be encouraged by several factors. Not just police behaving badly, but laws local to the region, departmental policy and/or statewide directives, elements of the culture of law enforcement and criminal justice, and possibly incentives provided by the correctional sector. Also factors that we are overlooking.

What do you think? What's the solution to this? Perhaps it's just as simple as insuring that police are held to the same standards of behavior that any citizen would be held to? I don't know.

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

considering that 'jobs' will change/evolve after COVID19 Pandemic...

there will be a greater 'pool' of Social-Credit-Score-Workers assigned to be 'sponsers or mentors' to thepersons convicted of criminal behavior but released into the community-at-large (sorta like 'tough probation') ...with up to 3 social workers assigned to each release-ee on-the-street

Watch the Movie :
...
www.youtube.com...

i know you got 2 minutes to see Trailer video

or see this: www.youtube.com...
~a 10 minute layout of the guts-of-the-movie, PC absurdity to the nth degree ~

Demolition Man takes place in 2032 --- 12 years after 2020 Pandemic reset the social interactions in Society and all the pitfalls made huge, because of the absurdity

Yes 'Demolition Man', I know the film, but what exactly are you trying to say here? Are you predicting this scenario for the near future, or do you have some other reason for referencing it that I did not grasp?

ALERT - New York Judge asks for Julian Assange to testify in Seth Rich Murder


This looks like a good start to get things back on track. Pull on this thread and things will quickly unravel with all the investments put on this table.

With Seth Rich reopened, it will open up all those emails and other questions remaining.