What Does Meaningful Law Enforcement And Criminal Justice Reform Look Like?

a reply to: Echo007

Look at how UK police do things, do we see them shooting unarmed people running away or pulling up to a kid sitting at a park bench within BB gun, within 15 seconds shooting the kid. Our Military has a ROE, they don't just shoot unarmed people because they felt scared, like US police do nation wide.

There are a lot of cultural differences, but pretending the police just gun people down because they are scared, is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Also, that is a big factor in why some interactions do end badly, false biases on both sides of the isle.

We need PEACE officers, not revenue generators for the state. What harm would it of caused to tell Mr Brooks to park his car in Wendy's parking lot for the night, call uber or have a friend come pick him up. No, the cop was out to arrest him from the start.

I agree with the first part but, what precedent does that set? It's ok to risk the lives of others because you didn't hurt anyone?

I wonder how police would act after going the first three years on the job without a sidearm. I bet shootings of unarmed people would be at a all time low. You would see a night and day difference on how officers treat people.

Yeah, shootings of citizens by police would go down, but shootings of unarmed police would go up. I guess the next logical step would be to disarm citizens right? Who in their right mind would join the police, if you had to engage an armed population, unarmed?

originally posted by: odzeandennz
Ok commie

Wow, sick burn edge lord.

a reply to: M5xaz

Look at you, Captain Hysteria, using Argumentum ad absurdum.

I say lower or eliminate sentences for non-violent offenses and you reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee right into, 'Selling fentanyl is okay!!!!!!!', because you absurdly focus on one word, eliminate.

Let me help you out here buckaroo, most people seem to be agreeing with me because most people see the status quo is broken. But you're cool, keep thinking things are working. Here, let me do some stupid on you now using your method: You must be cool with civil forfeiture in all cases because cops never do anything wrong, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Thats...actually a good list. I'd stand beside that.

Tell the guy who thinks they're all bad.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: M5xaz

Look at you, Captain Hysteria, using Argumentum ad absurdum.

I say lower or eliminate sentences for non-violent offenses and you reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee right into, 'Selling fentanyl is okay!!!!!!!', because you absurdly focus on one word, eliminate.

Let me help you out here buckaroo, most people seem to be agreeing with me because most people see the status quo is broken. But you're cool, keep thinking things are working. Here, let me do some stupid on you now using your method: You must be cool with civil forfeiture in all cases because cops never do anything wrong, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

You know it's an art laying it out like that. I just don't have the patience or the wit to be that polite while calling someone an idiot.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
You know it's an art laying it out like that. I just don't have the patience or the wit to be that polite while calling someone an idiot.

It's just turning their own stupid argument against them. When you run into a raving hysteric the best way to deal with them is to be an even bigger hysteric.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Thats...actually a good list. I'd stand beside that.

Tell the guy who thinks they're all bad.

Theres always one in a crowd of course

But I actually like the idea of people countering everything...its how common sense middlegrounds are reached. Sure, some things sound good on paper but in practice there are pitfalls and issues, so you need agatators and devils advocates that will highlight how even the best of intentions can be corrupted.

Random, recurring drug testing (specifically for 'Roids/PEDS).
Would love to see a working whistleblower process for anonymous reporting of illegal or unconstitutional behavior. It would have to be carefully designed though so as not to be used as a tool for targeting just any cop.
I agree with the items Augustus mentioned earlier in the thread

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: M5xaz

Look at you, Captain Hysteria, using Argumentum ad absurdum.

I say lower or eliminate sentences for non-violent offenses and you reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee right into, 'Selling fentanyl is okay!!!!!!!', because you absurdly focus on one word, eliminate.

Let me help you out here buckaroo, most people seem to be agreeing with me because most people see the status quo is broken. But you're cool, keep thinking things are working. Here, let me do some stupid on you now using your method: You must be cool with civil forfeiture in all cases because cops never do anything wrong, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Back at you using argumentum ad hominem
en.wikipedia.org...

Read my post, again, perhaps slower.
What you promote has been tried and resulted in HIGHER crime and recidivism.

Learn to control your overreactions when clearly wrong.

Unions need to go. No more fishing expeditions..ie need cause/reason to yank someone! No more civil forfeiture(see fishing expeditions)
Probably need to look at drug crimes, also probably need less dumb laws.

How about malpractice insurance?

That is a simplistic start, just scratching the surface..

originally posted by: M5xaz
What you promote has been tried and resulted in HIGHER crime and recidivism.

No it doesn't, it's common sense approaches to crime.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: M5xaz
What you promote has been tried and resulted in HIGHER crime and recidivism.

No it doesn't, it's common sense approaches to crime.

WRONG !
It HAS been tried:
www.washingtonexaminer.com...

Common sense ?
No, only if CAUSING rising crime is the objective.

a reply to: M5xaz

Funny how you leave out that murders were down 20%, but let's keep locking people up for stupid s*** like possession and turn them into criminals.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

To me, it looks like taking the homeless and the mentally ill out of the justice system as much as possible. A lot of youth crime as well.

Send in socialfamily services, with a cop as backup if required, but preferably an EMT.

If there's some old guy acting crazy in the parking lot, he probably needs a detox, or at least somewhere that he can sleep it off and get whatever meds he needs. That shouldn't be something that requires a cop.

The same with some dumb kid running their mouth off at a teacher in class. Cops only make that kind of situation worse.

I've seen instances where kids under 10 have been zip cuffed and taken away in a squad car and spending time in the lockup, when they should be taken to the guidance councilor's office to cool down.

Society has become too authoritarian. Too punitive. Too quick to think that every problem needs a cop involved in the solution. Cops have better things to do than picking up drunks and crazies. Let socialfamily services deal with the social problems and let cops get on with dealing with people who knowingly and willingly break the law.

I blame both sides of politics for this. Liberals want everything to be illegal, if you look at somebody funny then it's assault. And Conservatives want tougher action against people who commit crimes. Put them together and it's a perfect storm.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: M5xaz

Funny how you leave out that murders were down 20%, but let's keep locking people up for stupid s*** like possession and turn them into criminals.

FALSE !
Again !

"...the number of people victimized by gun violence and murder in New York City spiked significantly, when compared to the same period in 2019. Between June 1 and June 30, there was a 130% increase in the number of shooting incidents across the city (205 v. 89) as the number of shootings rose in every borough of New York. The number of people murdered citywide increased to 39 v. 30, (+ 30%) for the month, while the number of burglaries increased to 1,783 v. 817 (+118%) and the number of auto thefts increased to 696 v. 462 (+51%) citywide..."

www1.nyc.gov...

a reply to: M5xaz

True!

Since your first link was citing February. Murders were down by 20%.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Stopping the Police from being dog catchers and doing the job of the social work department's

And not having the largest prison population in the world compared to the size of your population springs to mind.

It does not mean not going after real criminals.

originally posted by: andy06shake
Stopping the Police from being dog catchers and doing the job of the social work department's

And not having the largest prison population in the world compared to the size of your population springs to mind.

But this is good! We need more people locked up for non-violent crimes so people who own shares of for profit prisons can make more bank.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: M5xaz

True!

Since your first link was citing February. Murders were down by 20%.

No, again incorrect.

In 2020, so far this year NYC murders are up 29% over 2019.

On what planet would pandering to criminals not increase the crime rate....so then by that "common sense logic", close hospitals to reduce the number of sick people, right ..?......

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: M5xaz

Look at you, Captain Hysteria, using Argumentum ad absurdum.

I say lower or eliminate sentences for non-violent offenses and you reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee right into, 'Selling fentanyl is okay!!!!!!!', because you absurdly focus on one word, eliminate.

Let me help you out here buckaroo, most people seem to be agreeing with me because most people see the status quo is broken. But you're cool, keep thinking things are working. Here, let me do some stupid on you now using your method: You must be cool with civil forfeiture in all cases because cops never do anything wrong, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

You know it's an art laying it out like that. I just don't have the patience or the wit to be that polite while calling someone an idiot.

Pushing for changes like bail reform that have already resulted in increased crime is what is idiotic. Hope no one you know is ever victimized, and in the meantime keep right on virtue signalling.....after all, crime is OK if it happens to other people but not you....