who say china is not copying

yeah i never said there wasn't going to be but the damage from radioation from a 20kiloton warhead is going to be minimal

with the population desnity in Chinese city's I would not call the human cost minimal...

Essentially you are going to end up with a humanitarian crisis... the survivors will be irradiated... there will be many homeless.

Of course the entire urban region will not be completely wiped out... but the city heart will cease to function.

In one strike you have lost your financial center, government administration,and many many thousands of people.

i think this post is about china's copy tech not for nuclear war .

and about nuclear i asking to all members just pryer that nothing of that kind happen any where if n.war happen in any case i dont have doubt any one could survive .

Well nuclear tech is one thing that china did not copy...

It took them longer but they were original

Originally posted by Lucretius
Well nuclear tech is one thing that china did not copy...

It took them longer but they were original

may be you like this bit old but perfect for your point

26/05/99
US-Sino relations hit new low over stolen nuclear secrets

MAXINE McKEW: America's already fragile relations with China have sunk to a new low following charges that Chinese spies have stolen top-secret information about every weapon in the US nuclear arsenal.

According to a 700-page report from a special congressional committee, the espionage has been going on for over 20 years and still continues to operate in weapons laboratories across the US.


full story

1999 WTF

did you read this

China denies the allegations

may be you like this bit old but perfect for your point

full story

read my starting line you have habit to read post as you want it.
one more thing there is no new major nuke develomeant in 2k so no matter how old is news

I haven't read the article but i think the 99 congressional reports refer the "peacemaker" missile in particular. If i remember correctly, the Americans only got suspicious when the 99 parade showed off the new Dongfeng's and the Americans said that it looks very similar to the peacemaker.

Thats about the crux of their evidence, if i remember correctly, the ethnic-chinese scientists that worked in the America whom the FBI tried to implicate sued the FBI (successfully).

China has had a nuclear program since 1950-60's and the program was originally forwarded by Chinese expats (ditto with the 60's space program).

Is designing a nuke that difficult? Einstein already figured out the basics, all it takes is for some other scientists to get funny and destructive ideas with his work, and apparently a lot of scientists from many individual nations did. Nuclear missiles all look the same anyway, they're just sticks with boosters and a warhead, how original can you get with nuclear missile design

well we're talking about the chinese here..
Naw just kidding..
I think the major irritant to the US was the stealing of SLBM technology from the Los Alamos labs and the acquisition of neutron bomb data as well..
This was carried out by US scientists (of chinese origin) working in those labs..
A slap on the US multi-ethnicity policy..
They were hurt pretty bad.. militarily and politically..
It came on the news say five-ten years back..
I remember watching the BBC report on that..
they kept on showing pressure-launched SLBMs again and again!!
Lucretius.. how old are you??.. I would have thought that you would know this!!..
SLBM launch tech is VERY VERY complex..
If anyone wants a brief explanation I'm sure there are many on this board who can give one (including me )

On a separate note, I actually commend the chinese for their manipulatory/espionage skills..
Just as I think that Al-Qaeda achieve tactical brilliance by strking at the WTC and the pentagon..
I hear the White house was targetted..
despicable agreed.. (after americans, the most number of casualties were indians ).. but I personally till then felt that the arabs were a comparatively 'slow' in the thinking dept.
as compared to other races..no racism intended.. just a point of view from personal experience..

Similarly the methods undertaken in 'coercing' those scientists in supplying the info might not have been so noble though..
There were news reports of the chinese govt./secret service (tewu its called i think) pressurising the concerned with threats of reprisals on family members back home on the mainland..again I remember this from the BBC report..
quite despicable, considerring most espionage is carried out by eihter due to sheer patriotism or 'greenbacks greed'..

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Daedalus3]

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Daedalus3]

hey i find today that chine new small car is also copy of GM/DAEWOO Spark/Matiz

link

GM unit sues Chinese automaker in patents row
Dec 16 '04

DETROIT, United States (AFP) — The South Korean subsidiary of General Motors Corp has sued a Chinese automaker for copying the design of one of its mini cars, the US automaker said.

GM Daewoo Auto and Technology Company accused Chery Automobile Co. Ltd. of Wuhu, Anhui province, of illegally copying the design of its Daewoo Matiz and Chevrolet Spark cars in an intellectual property action filed in a Shanghai court.

GM Daewoo filed a separate petition to invalidate certain design patents held by Chery.

With China' unhelp towards North Korea perhaps China should be removed from MFN - Most Favoured Trade status then inport dutes from their products will be whacked with heavy Duties. It will certainly aloow Mexico and Canada to compete..

Dallas

Not much the US can do now i'm afraid... it's pretty much past the point of no return but higher tariffs would help.

Of course you are going to need a case for them and the WTO will have to approve.

Originally posted by Dallas

With China' unhelp towards North Korea perhaps China should be removed from MFN - Most Favoured Trade status then inport dutes from their products will be whacked with heavy Duties. It will certainly aloow Mexico and Canada to compete..

Dallas

Whats the deal with the MFN staus its seems countries seem to bestow those titles to their 'most certain enemies'!!

US => China
India => Pakistan



Does China return the favour because I nkow pakistan doesn't..

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by Dallas

With China' unhelp towards North Korea perhaps China should be removed from MFN - Most Favoured Trade status then inport dutes from their products will be whacked with heavy Duties. It will certainly aloow Mexico and Canada to compete..

Dallas

Whats the deal with the MFN staus its seems countries seem to bestow those titles to their 'most certain enemies'!!

US => China
India => Pakistan

Does China return the favour because I nkow pakistan doesn't..

MFN is about trading rights. it you have to pay tariffs or how much you can export

Originally posted by Lucretius
Well nuclear tech is one thing that china did not copy...

It took them longer but they were original

lol, the first chinese reactors were based on Soviet designs and to some degree their first warheads. It is suspected that the Chicoms stole theplans to several nuclear warheads including the W-88 which will allow them to minaturise warheads for their current and future generations of ICBM's.

They cannot minaturise warheads using their indigenous technology, they don't have the practical expertise to do this.

Back to nuclear reactors, they are easy to build, look at some of the countries which build them indigenously - Argentina for one, hardly a first world country.

Originally posted by rogue1

lol, the first chinese reactors were based on Soviet designs and to some degree their first warheads. It is suspected that the Chicoms stole theplans to several nuclear warheads including the W-88 which will allow them to minaturise warheads for their current and future generations of ICBM's.

They cannot minaturise warheads using their indigenous technology, they don't have the practical expertise to do this.

arrhhh rogue1 you used the right words

rogue1 when you say practical expertise what is that. china doesn't have the sciencetist or what. chinas program started in the 1950's

but i am wondering arent nuclear reactors the same basic shape. what type of reactors commerical or military.

because the first commerical one was Defiantly built by only china.

also rogue1 i have more information about americas plan to attack china in 1960-1964

"Whether To 'Strangle the Baby in the Cradle'"
find this article on the net

rogue1 is the information that china "stole" any use to chinas nuclear program??
or is it more compromising americas Security.

read this

www.fas.org...
www.rrojasdatabank.org...

The Select Committee judges that the PRC's thermonuclear warheads will exploit elements of the U.S. W-70 Lance or W-88 Trident D-5 warheads. While the PRC might not reproduce exact replicas of these U.S. thermonuclear warheads, elements of the PRC's devices could be similar.

Originally posted by chinawhite
rogue1 is the information that china "stole" any use to chinas nuclear program??

I already said how the warhead information would be useful. The US had spent decades of testing to validate the designs, the Chinese stole the plans to the finished product.
This has saved China billions of dollars and a fair few nuclear tests. The W88 warhead especially will allow China to deploy MIRV's something which would have taken them years or even decades to do by themselves.

rogue1 i must agree it saved china a lot of time and effort but did you read the link i posted the expert doesn't agree