In the Beginning There Was ()

a reply to: Raggedyman


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
All those... moments will be lost...
in time... like tears... in rain.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I've read your comments and may I ask do you go to church or are you the church? Do other non Christians say your a Christian or is because you proclaim that you are one?

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

Thats for you to decide not me

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
All those... moments will be lost...
in time... like tears... in rain.

We are all slaves Pthena, to this system, I just believe some have been redeemed (yet to come) and should offer that hand of help when they can.
I have seen things as well, seen things that makes me value Christs message of love, even to the unworthy. Even if its wrong, it is worth it.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I have seen things as well, seen things that makes me value Christs message of love, even to the unworthy. Even if its wrong, it is worth it.

I'm glad that you aren't a Fundamentalist. Are you free to disagree with Paul?

19If we have only hoped in Christ in this life, we are of all men most pitiable.

1 Cor 15:19

a reply to: pthena

I'm a supporter of the Big Crunch theory as a balance to the Big Bang , as nothing can come from nothing the Big Crunch fixes the problem of the Big Bang happening in a void with no space or time.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

I have seen things as well, seen things that makes me value Christs message of love, even to the unworthy. Even if its wrong, it is worth it.

I'm glad that you aren't a Fundamentalist. Are you free to disagree with Paul?

19If we have only hoped in Christ in this life, we are of all men most pitiable.

1 Cor 15:19

Yeah, absolutely free to disagree with Paul but why. would I

If Christ didnt rise from death what value would there be in believing in Jesus, I believe Jesus rose. I believe Paul is spot on in the context
If Jesus didnt rise I wouldnt believe in Him.

The Risen Christ, Our Hope
12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have [c]fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
I would laugh at christians, they would be a joke if Christ didnt rise, very pitiable.

See, rising from the dead was not common, was not acceptable, was a pretty stupid thing to believe

I read that verse in context like this
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ (WHO DIDNT REALLY RISE FROM DEATH), we are of all men the most pitiable.

I think your context is flawed, I am content with mine
No offence

a reply to: pthena

Yeah, maybe not ''free'' will. ''Will'' at all is the question I guess. I started reading Geoge Lakoff out of the Berkeley nueropsycology studies and their conclusions that most, even up to 98% of what we normally consider to be conscious behavior iis really unconscious behavior, that is just following mental patterns and stuff.

If there really is 'will' it may be that it is not free. It may be that it is earned, or rather developed.

a reply to: gortex

I think when you balance the Big Bang with the Big Crunch you get the Big Bounce. ( I cheated by looking it up on Wikipedia.)

I watched a Bill Nye debate. He's on an Astronomy panel or something. He described this:

The vast majority of evidence indicates that this theory is not correct.[citation needed] Instead, astronomical observations show that the expansion of the universe is accelerating, rather than being slowed by gravity, suggesting that a Big Chill or Big Rip are far more likely to occur.
Big_Crunch

Big Chill? Big Rip?

But then there's this:

Roger Penrose advances a general relativity based theory (called the conformal cyclic cosmology) in which the universe expands until all the matter decays and is turned to light. Since nothing in the universe would have any time or distance scale associated with it, it becomes identical with the Big Bang (resulting in a type of Big Crunch which becomes the next Big Bang, thus starting the next cycle).

Now I'll have to see about conformal cyclic cosmology.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

If there really is 'will' it may be that it is not free. It may be that it is earned, or rather developed.

I just realized how imprecise language can be. I never even thought of 'free' like that. I was thinking of free as in free to walk through walls and fly like Peter Pan or Superman.

I remember watching the classic Peter Pan movie when it was fresh as opposed to classic. The flying looked so easy. It was actually quite painful. I was crying one time and when my older sister asked me why I was crying I said "I was flying like Peter Pan, but I could only stay up for a second, and the floor is really hard."

Then she told me that the actor wasn't really flying; there were wires.

In my dreams though, I cooked up a scheme (mind you this was before hang-gliders were a thing). I would tear the cover off a hard back book, all in one piece, and then just sled off into the sky. That worked just fine in my dreams.

But unconscious is still part of the mind. I don't think it's exactly like muscle reflex. That knee jerk thing seems to not involve the brain. I don't remember. I'm too tired to look it up right now.

a reply to: pthena

These Bible verses are a reference to a time before Gen 1:1. It is a reference about God the Son, Jesus Christ. Notice the cross reference to beginning there? It is not Gen 1:1 but rather John 1:1-2

Pr 8:22-24 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

a reply to: pthena

In my dreams though, I cooked up a scheme (mind you this was before hang-gliders were a thing). I would tear the cover off a hard back book, all in one piece, and then just sled off into the sky. That worked just fine in my dreams.

That's fascinating, using a book cover as a sled. Kind of like a magic carpet too i guess. There might be some symbolism there of reading as a way of flight, you know, learning and stuff.

Peter Pan also moved me, like you say, it was so easy, you just needed the right frame of mind. And Superman too.

As a kid, the first way that I could fly in my dreams was petty simple. I would sit in the yard with my legs crossed, my back as straight as could be with my arms folded in my lap. Getting real still in my head and concentrating I could lift off into the air about 8 feet and then zoom, away I would go. That 8 feet seemed to be some kind of threshold.

That changed in later years Mind you I was still pre-teen at that point. Later I would go out into the street and run in one direction and jump. As I hit the top of the jump I would turn around and use the momentum of coming back down again to propel me back down the street in the opposite direction and then with enough speed, jump again. That second jump would get me a little higher and i would turn around again and run back in the first direction and jump a little higher. Usually a half dozen jumps or so would get me up to that 8 or 9 foot threshold and away i would fly.

As an adult, this changed again and I would use the elevator method. I would need to find the elevator first. It was invisible and much like one of those balancing guys who takes a board and puts it on a ball and then balances. But it was invisible and I couldn't feel it so it took a long time to step onto ''just right'' so as to not slip off.

It was always so disappointing to wake up and not be able to fly. So much so that I would dream that I had woken up and still fly. Then of course I would wake up and realize my dreams had fooled me once more.

Like you, most of that was pre-hang glider.By the time they rolled around, some time in the eighties I guess I was already in my late mid to late thirties with a family to support so that both the age and the money it would take to do it was out of reach. Maybe I should have jumped up to reach it or something but I didn't. Alas.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

so that both the age and the money it would take to do it was out of reach. Maybe I should have jumped up to reach it or something but I didn't. Alas.

Some time in the 2010s there was a girl on ATS that I wanted to impress.

So in my dream I climbed up a tree, not as easy as it used to be*(see footnote, no middle of the text note)

*I was quite a famous tree climber in my youth. You know those rope swings you used to see and wonder "how in the World did somebody get way up there to tie that rope on that branch?" I was that guy. In all my years in trees, I only fell once, but that was from a tree house. Those big flat spaces in a tree just aren't natural.

From one branch, I let the pull of my heart lift me up to a higher branch. When I woke up my breast bone ached, possible hairline fracture. I didn't do that again in my dreams, fears of real osteoporosis! Yeah, try explaining that to a doctor!

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I've thought about the wording used in the graffiti. There seems to be a reason for the there there. It's a matter of respect.

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck
Historic data in the Bible is simple just that... history. There is actually a city or town called Gotham does that mean Batman is real?

a reply to: toktaylor

Historic data in the Bible is simple just that... history.

Ask the Archeologists if there is evidence of Solomon's vast, expansive empire as described in 1 Kings.

If there was such an empire, it was centered somewhere else, and the Emperor wasn't named Solomon.

His story.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

May Brahma overlook my loutishness:

It's a good thing then, that Brahma created the Vedas so that people could know about the Great Kalpas. I just looked at very extensive charts that the scholars labored lifetimes to create. Maybe in the next Great Kalpa those charts should be included in the next Vedas, to save a bit of time.

Who should I talk to about that?

Brahma, please overlook my loutishness, do you receive petitions? suggestions?

originally posted by: pthena

I just re-read the copy of the graffiti posted on this thread. It appears that it can be interpreted that way. I'm not sure what the author intended by ().

I assumed that it did not mean void, because there was no void.
WoW! I don't even know what nothing is.
...
Be you Fullatea.

This Full-Tea-Be-4-You !

Sorta-kinda everything from nothing, eh ?

So here we are : in this space of not knowing the intentions of the graffiti writer.
Other than to possibly instigate a though-experiment, like we are having here ?
Perhaps the writer would be pleased to see all of this hullabaloo ?

And so everyone is trying to guess, what's inside of those parenthesis.
But when reading the graffiti: there's nothing inside of those parenthesis.

Have toyed with ideas like these, in my short-story : Accusations unspoken.

And so here is my introspective question : is my thoughts that there is nothing inside of those parenthesis, due to my bias, and interest in 'nothingness'; just as much as a Christian believes that God is in and of all, and therefore: of course God is inside of those parenthesis ?

Perhaps that is how this thread has become about God ?

So : like the others ; will continue on with my idea that there is nothing inside of those parenthesis.
It doesn't feel like too much of stretch, 'cause, you know : there's like ; literally nothing inside of those parenthesis.

And so my offering to y'all: is that not only has the author of the graffiti suggested the idea of 'Everything outta nothing' within the story itself; but the ensuing thought-exercise we are now having, is also proving to be an exercise in creating 'Everything outta nothing', as evidenced by all of the interpretations.

We fill in the blanks, no ?
We finish other peoples thoughts, and sentences.
We invent formulas and theories, to scientifically explain anything, and then refute other's ideas, by pointing back to our invented rules, and thus believe we have discredited their ideas.
We invent rules for philosophical discussion, then see no problem with using those rules, as if they were some kind of 'truth'.
We have invented laws, and rules of conduct : yet there are no rules in nature.
We have invented religions, to try and formally explain what we feel, but is beyond words.

From the last sentence : change the word 'religion', to : art; New-Age ideas; ...
Change those words to: anything and everything ?

Can nobody else see how we may have created everything outta nothing ?

a reply to: Nothin

Really short short story.

is my thoughts that there is nothing inside of those parenthesis, due to my bias, and interest in 'nothingness'; just as much as a Christian believes that God is in and of all, and therefore: of course God is inside of those parenthesis ?

So I was going to post the video, losing my religion by R.E.M. then the youtube played this video as the add. Instead of clicking ( skip add ) I listened to it.

In the video, Neil deGrasse Tyson calls search engines "Search engines on the internet are the epitome of confirmation bias" 01:21.

But Neil I'm listening to you say that because of Youtube's algorithm!!!

Can nobody else see how we may have created everything outta nothing ?

compare to:

We have invented laws, and rules of conduct : yet there are no rules in nature.

I can only lose so much of my religion. I must retain some grasp on reality. The Sky and Earth predate me by a long shot, and will remain after me.

The first time I saw a person die, I saw a whole universe (of that person's perspective) wink out. After cleaning her in prep for the undertaker pick up, I walked out into the hallway ... people were just going about their normal business as if a universe had not just ended. I've never gotten over that.

but manmade religions:

originally posted by: toktaylor
a reply to: PhilbertDezineck
Historic data in the Bible is simple just that... history. There is actually a city or town called Gotham does that mean Batman is real?

You may want to look into biblical archeology they are finding more and more evidence of proof of biblical refereed to people. How do you account for the prophetic writings, such as the 70 week writing of Daniel, which give the exact date of Jesus entering into Jerusalem.