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You mean see through the eyes of the people of the time?
originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Teikiatsu
Why are you defending the wrongs we now see in history?
The largest white supremacist movement in the history of the US and you are boiling it down to "it was the cool thing to do".
Every industrialized nation back then had already seen slavery as not only counter productive for the rise of capitalism, but it was also growing extremely unpopular among many of the civilized worlds people. Britain and many European nations had abolished or took drastic changes towards slavery already, this is why no European nation even acknowledged the confederacy as a sovereign nation. It was illegitimate in the eyes of literally everyone else.
This whole 'lost cause' myth isn't correct history.
originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: TheRedneck
Its called the American Civil War btw. Don't revise history.
I go off what information and history is given to me. I can go on about how northern industrialists were pushing hard to abolish slavery so they could capitalize off the untapped labor of the south. But no one talks about that.
No, no one talks about it because they are too busy defending the lost cause myth and defending the south for some reason. Its rather pathetic because the amount of information that proves the souths motives revovled around one reason is overwhelming. Yet still try to twist it around and jump through hoops to defend the immoral reason to create a hissy fit nation.
Its called the American Civil War btw. Don't revise history.
I go off what information and history is given to me.
Those who wave Confederate flags as "southern pride" doesn't look like they moved on.
The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.
The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose. By anti-slavery it is made a power in the state. The question of slavery was the great difficulty in the way of the formation of the Constitution.
While the subordination and the political and social inequality of the African race was fully conceded by all, it was plainly apparent that slavery would soon disappear from what are now the non-slave-holding States of the original thirteen.
A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.
A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union.
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association.
THE SECESSION ORDINANCE.
AN ORDINANCE TO REPEAL THE RATIFICATION OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BY THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, AND TO RESUME ALL THE RIGHTS AND POWERS GRANTED UNDER SAID CONSTITUTION.
The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.
Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the *forms* [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.
Sec. 2. (I) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.
(3) No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or labor may be due.
(3) ... In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.
You too know, that among us, white men have an equality resulting from a presence of a lower caste, which cannot exist where white men fill the position here occupied by the servile race. The mechanic who comes among us, employing the less intellectual labor of the African, takes the position which only a master-workmen occupies where all the mechanics are white, and therefore it is that our mechanics hold their position of absolute equality among us.
originally posted by: AceWombat04
a reply to: Cancerwarrior
False equivalency and middleground fallacy are tu quoque arguments. The assertion being responded to was not, "The North didn't have slaves too," or, "Lincoln was a paragon of abolition at all points in his life without fail and had no ulterior motives." It was, "The Confederate States did not fight for the continuation of Slavery," which is an ahistorical assertion, and a burden of proof impossible to meet, already defeated from the moment of secession as demonstrated above.
As stated, acknowledgement of other factors or the failings of the other side of the equation - which were myriad - does nothing to change that reality anymore than acknowledgement of the sociopolitical nuances of how Nazi Germany functioned or the failings of its enemies change what it was
I stand by the above quotes, which speak for themselves.