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Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows

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posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 12:34 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Dr. Fauci is good at what he does, but he is not perfect.


Nope, he's not. Nobody is. What we know for sure, he's certainly a hell of a lot qualified that the people posting on here.


I listen to what Fauci has to say as well,


You listen, but you don't pay attention, hence why you've spending all this time defending the supposed effectiveness of this drug with nothing but your own opinions and personal conclusions.


You can worship him all you want;


Me saying Fauci is more qualified to make judgements on Hydroxychloroquine doesn't necessarily mean I worship the man. We're bordering on ad hominems here. Let's be adults and stay clean of that ok?


You might notice something... I have not posted many supporting links when talking with you. I have when talking with others. There's a reason for that: you are not worth my time assembling and formatting links. Sorry to have to be so blunt, but that seems to be the only way you'll get it. You're not worth the effort.


Redneck, you've spent the last 5 days replying back and forth to myself and this thread. Carry on ya know? I'm not holding you hostage here. We both know this.




posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian


Nope, he's not. Nobody is. What we know for sure, he's certainly a hell of a lot qualified that the people posting on here.

Qualified in what area? You do realize we have researchers, medical experts, and all manner of professionals posting on ATS? I could make Dr. Anthony Fauci look like a fool in an electronics research lab; I'm much more qualified than he is in that field. He could make me look like a fool in an infectious disease lab; that's his forte.

Just saying he's "a hell of a lot more qualified" and then accepting everything he utters blindly is a fool's errand. I accept his qualifications, I accept that there are others who are also well-qualified, and I accept that even the well-qualified should never be taken at face value, especially when his track record on the Kung Flu has been... let's say, less than stellar. It's a new virus, after all, even to him.


You listen, but you don't pay attention, hence why you've spending all this time defending the supposed effectiveness of this drug with nothing but your own opinions and personal conclusions.

Oh, I have much more than personal opinions and conclusions. You want links so damn bad? OK, here ya go... but you'll have to live with a lack of formatting.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5
Lin k 6
Link 7
Link 8
Link 9

There ya go. First page of a Google search for the phrase "hydroxychloroquine success." Knock yerself out.


Me saying Fauci is more qualified to make judgements on Hydroxychloroquine doesn't necessarily mean I worship the man. We're bordering on ad hominems here. Let's be adults and stay clean of that ok?

I would love to "be adult here." How about we start with you not misrepresenting cases, shall we?


Redneck, you've spent the last 5 days replying back and forth to myself and this thread. Carry on ya know? I'm not holding you hostage here. We both know this.

Neither am I holding you hostage.

To be perfectly honest, I am trying to figure out what it is that causes some people like you to hate so much you would rejoice to see innocent people die if it meant the object of your hatred was also harmed in some way. That is one aspect of human nature that I just can't seem to get my head around. I keep hoping it'll make sense at some point.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 02:54 AM
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On another note, it ends up not mattering what a person like Fauci is qualified for when they are caught lying. Being deceptive, misrepresentation and other forms of deception.

Some people are very good at knowing when a lie is being told. Many others are not.



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 04:37 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Qualified in what area? You do realize we have researchers, medical experts, and all manner of professionals posting on ATS?


Oh really? People more qualified than Dr Anthony Stephen Fauci, an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984? The one senior lead on Trump's very own Coronavirus task force?

Who's this medical expert you speak of on ATS?


I could make Dr. Anthony Fauci look like a fool in an electronics research lab; I'm much more qualified than he is in that field.


Ok.

Now, to your sources.

Your first link, from the Association of American Physicians and surgeons.


Though AAPS often takes positions that are associated with conservative groups, it sometimes goes even further, pushing fringe views that most mainstream conservatives do not endorse, such as the belief that mandatory vaccination is “equivalent to human experimentation” and that Medicare is “evil.” Over the years, the group seems to have coalesced around an ethos of radical self-determination and a belief that mainstream science isn’t always trustworthy. It’s the most curious of medical organizations: a doctors’ interest group that seems more invested in the interests of doctors, rather than public health.


No.

Second link, Dr Anthony Cardillo.


Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results with a small group of patients, but he also warns that it's still experimental, not widely-tested and much caution must still be used.


Third link, not a wide ranging study. Just a local doctor's opinion, which he is entitled to.

Fourth link;


scientists argue that relying on observational, uncontrolled evidence can be misleading and that the only way to truly prove a drug is working is through carefully controlled clinical trials. And, contrary to Armstrong's assertion that hydroxychloroquine "has virtually no side effects," it is known to have serious negative health impacts. That is why so many in the medical community worry about prescribing it without such proof.

Among them is Katherine Seley-Radtke, who is a medicinal chemist at The University of Maryland, Baltimore County. She specializes in antiviral drug research, including coronaviruses.

"This is really disconcerting," Seley-Radtke told NPR.

NPR

Fifth link, Henryford Study, already addressed in the OP;

Others have pointed out to the one Henry-Ford study out of the several major studies in regards to this drug. That study was done from an observational standpoint and concluded there appeared to be benefit from Hydroxychloroquine. Observational studies mean you're going back and looking at patients as opposed to folllowing them and going forward in time. With that particular study, when closely reviewed, 80% of those patients in that study that were given Hydroxychloroquine were also receiving a steroid medication which had been shown to be beneficial, this conflicted with results given the mix of the two treatments.

Sixth, you're referring to the National Institutes of Health starting a trial on hydroxi. they've already been clear on it ever since;

NIH halts clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine


A clinical trial to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of adults hospitalized with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has been stopped by the National Institutes of Health. A data and safety monitoring board (DSMB) met late Friday and determined that while there was no harm, the study drug was very unlikely to be beneficial to hospitalized patients with COVID-19.


Seventh link; that study from Turkey;

Turkish study attributed to sudden death in patients

Eight, promising ongoing study but not conclusive. This was back in early May by the way.


So overall we have one positive report (very positive indeed, and an outlier in that respect) and two safety warnings. Make of this what you will. We have more controlled trial data coming, and the arguing can re-commence when it hits.


Nine, same source, but a month back. Refer to my comments on your eighth link.

I took the time to look through each of your links Redneck, because I care enough to factcheck. Likewise, I didn't find any conclusive study that this drug is indeed a proper treatment to COVID19. You say you wonder why I'm not supporting this drug and it's use. My reasons are simple, there's nothing out there to substantiate it as a true treatment to the virus. Your reasons for supporting it? Well I posed this question earlier. Would you be here defending Hydroxychloroquine had Trump not mentioned it?


edit on 23-7-2020 by Southern Guardian because: Link broken!



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

You don't care all that much about sources. Yesterday you were citing a single person in Florida not recovering. I've seen a constant stream of sources on this, on masks, and on lockdowns. What has become abundantly clear is that very few people read and understand the studies they link and even fewer understand what conclusions (usually not many) one can make from them.



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian


Oh really? People more qualified than Dr Anthony Stephen Fauci, an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984? The one senior lead on Trump's very own Coronavirus task force?

Who's this medical expert you speak of on ATS?

So now you claim Dr. Fauci is always correct and is above reproach. The exact opposite of what you were insinuating earlier.

What was that about not worshiping him? Sounds like worship to me...

As to your time spent going through all those links... I didn't. I didn't need to to prove my point; you did that for me. Every one of those posted links had information that supported more research into hydroxychloroquine treatment; some also had information that cautioned against certain uses of hydroxychloroquine. You specifically took the time to search out the cautions and ignored the support for more research in each one.

We call that "bias" around here. And, to use a cultural phrase, you, sir are "et up with it."

I especially like how you keep pointing out that results are "inconclusive." It's obvious that you got one thing correct in all these pages: you are not a doctor! I doubt you have even the most basic knowledge of medical procedures. A study in the medical field is always "inconclusive" until it has repeated over and over, practically ad infinitum for years, simply because that wording shields the researchers from the stunningly expensive prospect of medical malpractice. Warnings about potential side effects are always exaggerated, because in any test group there will always be those who experience symptoms which are unrelated to the medication being tested, but which exhibit themselves at random during the test. There have been tests on aspirin where test subjects have died! The aspirin had nothing to do with the death, but the death still happened during the test.

That means that there will be no treatment for the Kung Flu that does not carry an official warning that it can be fatal anytime in the next decade probably. Someone will expire during the testing, be that expiration from the treatment or a a car wreck. Either way, a test subject died and that death must be reported.

My complaint is that people like you will look for any study that mentions a failure in hydroxychloroquine and latch onto it without the slightest examination of the facts. Did the test use the full treatment? Was the test performed on a specific stage of disease progression? Was the test performed on people of the same symptomatic severity as the claims of success you are refuting? So far, the answer has been "no" to all of the above in every case I have seen.

Djarums made a valid point above: is your concern here that the treatment doesn't work or that it will hurt people? If the former, then where is the harm in trying it? For all we know for certain, just the fervent hope that the treatment will work might make the difference; any physician will tell you that attitude is half the battle. If the latter, then you have completely failed, not only to provide evidence that points to excessive death from the treatment, but to even show evidence based on what is being touted as successful.

No, let's be adults again and place our cards on the table for all to see: I want to see a safe, effective treatment for this damn virus. I want the lockdowns to go away; I want to be able to go to town without worrying about being mugged by an angry mob because I am medically unable to wear a face mask. I want my friends who have legitimate reasons to be scared of this thing to not be scared any more. I want local stores to be able to open up again.

You apparently want to see people die, based on everything you have said here so far.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: TheRedneck
...
Oh really? People more qualified than Dr Anthony Stephen Fauci, an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984? The one senior lead on Trump's very own Coronavirus task force? ...


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Hushhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Don't say that too loudly, lest TPTB see how ready the folks are to defer to anyone with 'qualifications'.
Why: they could usurp the entire process, from owning or funding the leading organizations, controlling the 'education' system to purposely select, and groom candidates willing to do their bidding, dictating public policy to the politicians and their lackeys, controlling the narrative, and bringing the whole system in line with their agendas.

Please: we all need to hope now, that no profit-greedy corporation ever figures-out how ready the population is, to totally suspend their critical-thinking caps, and meekly genuflect to anyone with some fancy letters before, and/or after their name.

Since Dr. Falsi has been in the same chair for about 36 years, he must surely be super tough on big pharma, eh ?
Bet he's real big on educating the public on natural cures and treatments eh ?



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 03:56 PM
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My fundamental problem with your arguments here is that you're seeking to validate your engrained beliefs that this drug will work, as opposed to seeking the facts behind it. Hence one of your sources from the Association of American Physicians and surgeons, a well known partisan front. That's not the way true research is supposed to work. You seek to find the answer, not validation.

a reply to: TheRedneck


So now you claim Dr. Fauci is always correct and is above reproach. The exact opposite of what you were insinuating earlier.


I didn't claim any of this. Made it pretty clear that he's just as human as the rest of us. Something you can't seem to wrap your head around for some reason.


I especially like how you keep pointing out that results are "inconclusive"


These are facts. You can't point to research in it's early phases and proclaim proof of something working when we haven't allowed the appropriate time and elements to take place. You don't have to be a doctor to know this. I'll note, I'm saying knowing full-well this isn't some minor error on your part. Again, you're seeking validation to a pre-conception of yours.


That means that there will be no treatment for the Kung Flu that does not carry an official warning


Why do you feel the need to call it Kung Flu virus? I understand this is what our president called it, but we're individuals, we don't have to follow his every step.


No, let's be adults again and place our cards on the table for all to see: I want to see a safe, effective treatment for this damn virus. I want the lockdowns to go away; I want to be able to go to town without worrying about being mugged by an angry mob because I am medically unable to wear a face mask. I want my friends who have legitimate reasons to be scared of this thing to not be scared any more. I want local stores to be able to open up again.


Me too. I have chronic asthma. This is definately a concern and I want to see it go away too Redneck. But if we are to see any success, we need to ensure we're taking the appropriate actions and working together. My concern about those pushing hydroxi for example, it creates a false hope for people who are eager to jump back into some normality. We have to be careful about how we approach this virus, and put some trust and faith in our fellow human medical experts. That's the only way we'll get through this. New Zealand has practically rid this virus through careful planning, social distancing measures, restrictions. It's very possible for us to do so as well. Pushing false narratives on medical cures will make it difficult for us to get to this level. This is something you need to put aside what biases you may have, and understand.

edit on 23-7-2020 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
On another note, it ends up not mattering what a person like Fauci is qualified for when they are caught lying. Being deceptive, misrepresentation and other forms of deception.

Some people are very good at knowing when a lie is being told. Many others are not.

Practice makes perfect.

“For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Hebrews 5:13,14)

Synonyms for right and wrong are true and false.



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
...keep people off ventilators, AND THAT IS THE KEY...You go on a ventilator and you are basically dead...

Has someone already linked this publication (preprint):

COVID-19 Outpatients – Early Risk-Stratified Treatment with Zinc Plus Low Dose Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin: A Retrospective Case Series Study

Martin Scholz * , Roland Derwand , Vladimir Zelenko
...
Abstract

... 141 patients (median age 58 years, IQR 40-67; 73% male) got a prescription for the triple therapy for 5 days. Independent public reference data from 377 confirmed COVID-19 patients of the same community were used as untreated control. 4 of 141 treated patients (2.8%) were hospitalized, which was significantly less (p < 0.001) compared with 58 of 377 untreated patients (15.4%) (odds ratio 0.16, 95% CI 0.06-0.5). Therefore, the odds of hospitalization of treated patients were 84% less than in the untreated group. One patient (0.7%) died in the treatment group versus 13 patients (3.5%) in the untreated group (odds ratio 0.2, 95% CI 0.03-1.5; p=0.16). There were no cardiac side effects. Conclusions: Risk stratification-based treatment of COVID-19 outpatients as early as possible after symptom onset with the used triple therapy, including the combination of zinc with low dose hydroxychloroquine, was associated with significantly less hospitalizations and 5 times less all-cause deaths.

Less hospitalizations is less intubation. Add some vitamin C and D3 and optionally also melatonin to that regime and you'll have even less hospitalizations. Do all the things I mentioned in my first post in this thread under the description "HCQ + quality care" (or "a proper HCQ treatment"), such as continuing the treatment longer than 5 days if the patient needs it or starting it up again if the patient has a rebound of the disease*, and you can bring that number of hospitalizations down even further (*: notice the publication above limiting the treatment to 5 days max.; Dr. Ban in one of his videos explains his experience of a rebound of the disease when the treatment was stopped after 5 days already in one of his patients, this patient ended up in the hospital, the virus was allowed to regain a foothold; note that it's not Dr. Ban that stopped the HCQ treatment after 5 days in this patient, there are often other factors at play in those situations. Such as other doctors intefering, or apothecaries not filling prescriptions, someone being hospitalized somewhere where they don't continue with the HCQ treatment, etc.).

I think Dr. Ban's experience with the rebound (a hint that 5 days max. is not always enough) is discussed in this interview:

Hydroxychloroquine treatment for Covid 19 patients OAN interview part 1 Doc Talk w Dr Ban Ep 33

6 parts, I think it's somewhere in part 3 or 4. Otherwise, it's in the "case studies" series earlier in the playlist linked above (ep. 26).
edit on 23-7-2020 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic


You do not understand...it doesn't work because the study that only used HCQ in high doses for patients already critically ill didn't recover.

Ya that is a no #...

And so with your post and many others from hospitals doing the same with the triple therapy early in the illness all suggest it helps a good deal.



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 07:14 PM
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Here's a little something for perspective. This is from 2005. Trump wasn't president back then so it wasn't controversial.

virologyj.biomedcentral.com...

Dr Fauci approved this. That should be enough of an appeal to authority.



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 10:04 PM
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LAHORE: The preliminary results of the country’s largest drug trial on the coronavirus — Pakistan Randomized and Observational Trial to Evaluate Coronavirus Treatment (PROTECT) — has not only established the safety of hydroxychloroquine, a drug generally used for malaria, in terms of mortality but has also shown significant recovery rates in Covid-19 patients when used in combination with two other drugs- azithromycin and oseltamivir.


Study claims hydroxychloroquine is safe, effective to cure Covid-19

He said the study found that the coronavirus patients, who received the three drugs combined, had a recovery rate of 86pc.



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: TheAiIsLying

Said it earlier in this thread: Either they're lying to us now that HQ is ineffective and dangerous: or they were lying to us before saying it was safe.

Either way: big fat lairs.
Totally beyond me why anyone would listen to these tainted 'authorities'.



posted on Jul, 23 2020 @ 10:31 PM
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Observational Study of the Efficiency of
Treatments in Patients Hospitalized with
Covid-19 in Madrid



Conclusions
In this multicenter study of patients admitted with COVID-19 hydroxychloroquine and
prednisone administration was found to be associated with improved outcomes.


from a
discussion video



posted on Jul, 24 2020 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian


My fundamental problem with your arguments here is that you're seeking to validate your engrained beliefs that this drug will work, as opposed to seeking the facts behind it.

Let me fix that for you:

I am seeking to validate my engrained hope that this drug will work, based on the facts behind it.

There is no belief there. I performed scientific experiments for a living; still do on a (very slow) personal level. The facts are the facts. But I see nothing wrong with having hope that those facts will bear out the best possible outcome. Hope is what drives people; hopelessness has never improved anything.


I didn't claim any of this. Made it pretty clear that he's just as human as the rest of us. Something you can't seem to wrap your head around for some reason.

The problem is you make that claim, then turn right around and trust his statements implicitly. I trust that Fauci believes what he says (so far) and that he has greater knowledge and experience than I do; I do not implicitly trust that everything he says is factually accurate. As you say, Fauci can be (has been) wrong.


These are facts. You can't point to research in it's early phases and proclaim proof of something working when we haven't allowed the appropriate time and elements to take place. You don't have to be a doctor to know this.

That sword cuts both ways. An inconclusive test is simply that: inconclusive. It may not be able to provide "proof" of efficacy, but neither does such a test provide proof of inefficacy.

You are pointing to "inconclusive" as being the same as "negative." That's not how it works. We will not have "proof" of any treatment for years to come due to the amount of evidence required in medical research to establish such "proof."

And no, one need not be a doctor to know this.


Why do you feel the need to call it Kung Flu virus?

Because it came from Wuhan, China; also because the Chinese government has tried to claim it did not. I have also called it the "WuFlu" (based on the source being Wuhan), but that seemed to fly over people's heads. I have also called it the "Democrat virus"... based on a rant I made about how intelligent this virus seems to be based on reports, and that those same reports seem to indicate it votes Democrat. That one seems to go over people's heads as well, so I am resorting to "Kung Flu" as of late.

My choice of names has nothing to do with what the President says. Last I heard, he calls it the "Chinese virus." Works for me, but "Kung Flu" is easier to type and has a humorous element I like, and gets the point across: CHINA CAUSED THIS MESS.


Me too. I have chronic asthma. This is definately a concern and I want to see it go away too Redneck. But if we are to see any success, we need to ensure we're taking the appropriate actions and working together. My concern about those pushing hydroxi for example, it creates a false hope for people who are eager to jump back into some normality.

A false hope is still hope.

if you take away hope from people, all you will accomplish is complete social chaos. We're almost there now. If society breaks down into chaos, all your social distancing and face masks are gone... this thing will spread out through the entire population unchecked and all of your fears will have come true.

Nowhere have I said that this virus should be ignored because we might have found a treatment. In fact, I have said just the opposite: the virus is real and under certain conditions is fatal. We should all be careful about unnecessary exposure and take steps to help minimize our exposure (washing hands regularly, PPE around at-risk populations and individuals, a little common sense in personal interactions (don't lick your friends face, especially after they cough), that sort of thing. If it is as contagious as is claimed, it will move through the entire population at some point, but we can minimize death using whatever shows promise, continuing research, slowing infection rates as much as practical, and using a little common sense.

Incidentally, I just found out my daughter is under quarantine for exposure; she is awaiting her test. I just talked to her, and my advice was simply: ensure you have a high intake of C, D3, and Zinc; watch for any symptoms of the disease (shortness of breath, fever, sudden cough) and get to a doctor stat if those are detected; otherwise socially isolate and don't worry. That's the advice I gave my daughter... if I was in any way being insincere about my position, do you really think I would give her advice consistent with what I have been saying on here?

If you have asthma, I would give you the same advice: C, D3, Zinc, and reasonable caution. I know she has a strong immunity already, so I am pretty sure she is starting off at an advantage; I do not know your immunity, so I would suggest you get some supplements and start building up your defenses if you're not already immunologically strong.

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 24 2020 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: puzzled2

Prednisone?

Interesting.... need to check that out...

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 24 2020 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


I am seeking to validate my engrained hope that this drug will work, based on the facts behind it.


Hence your need to get your sources from partisan fronts and the odd local doctor. We have the nation's top medical professionals and the world's leading medical experts, completed studies, firm about the ineffectiveness of this drug. But you feel the need to ignore. It's telling.


I performed scientific experiments for a living;


I'm an amatuer astronomer Redneck. I built my own telescope and I've run a small blog (it's a few years outdated now) about my experiences, findings. I know a lot more than the average person when it comes to this, but I still humble myself when I'm wrong about something. We can't know everything and anything.


I do not implicitly trust that everything he says is factually accurate.


Of course you don't have to trust everything he says implicitly. With that said, many of his comments and views, including those on hydroxi, can be consistently matched by the research and consensus of the medical community out there. He's just another piece to this.


And no, one need not be a doctor to know this.


When I'm sick and I'm uncertain of what to do or what to take, I go see a doctor. Simple. I don't go onto WebMD or whatever else there is on google because I understand that I'm incapable of getting the nuances, subtleties, histories behind certain treatments, symptoms. It would take me days, at the least to, comprehend a fraction of these. Days I do not have, and cannot afford, if I'm sick. So I go see a doctor. Somebody trainined in that specific area. I'm both humble and wise enough to do this.


Because it came from Wuhan, China; also because the Chinese government has tried to claim it did not. I have also called it the "WuFlu" (based on the source being Wuhan), but that seemed to fly over people's heads.


I'm trying to have a serious debate about whether or not this drug is really an effective treatment against COVID19, putting aside the politics and the rhetoric we're getting out there by the politicians and the establishment. You however feel the need to parrot what the president said as part of your arguments. It just shows where you're getting your beliefs from at core about this drug. It's evidently got nothing to do with finding the core facts at hand. Whether or not this virus came from China is irrelevant to whether hydroxichlorquine is an effective treatment. Your politics is clouding your judgement, evidently.



posted on Jul, 24 2020 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian


Hence your need to get your sources from partisan fronts and the odd local doctor.

And this is the guy who just tried to chastise me for not being "adult." In my world, adults don't try to put words in the mouths of others. I never said, nor have I indicated such. I actually stated the opposite.

You want to be adult, or you want to roll in the muddy sandbox like a 5-year-old? Pick one and stick with it.


We have the nation's top medical professionals and the world's leading medical experts, completed studies, firm about the ineffectiveness of this drug. But you feel the need to ignore.

I ignore nothing. The parameters of the tests matter.


I'm an amatuer astronomer Redneck. I built my own telescope and I've run a small blog (it's a few years outdated now) about my experiences, findings. I know a lot more than the average person when it comes to this, but I still humble myself when I'm wrong about something. We can't know everything and anything.

When I heard that, I went out to my shop and tried something. I set up two lenses and tried to see the rings of Saturn during the day. Not sure what the focal length on them was, so I just set them a little ways apart. My experiment failed... I couldn't see anything but blurry sunlight! So I guess you didn't really build a telescope after all, since it's obvious from my experiment that it's not possible.

That's what you sound like.
    Parameter fail 1: Doctors who have reported success are reporting success with early administration of the treatment. The test was conducted on patients who were already in critical condition.

    Parameter fail 2: Doctors who have reported success are reporting success when a cocktail of several different drugs and supplements are used in combination. The test was conducted using only one of the reported drugs.

    Parameter fail 3: Doctors who have reported success used dosages of all the drugs used which fall into the "safe" region based on previous use against other diseases. The test used various dosages, some up to and including fatal levels.
3 fails on parameters. By contrast, my telescope experiment only failed twice... used in the daytime instead of at night, and focal length was not set properly.


Of course you don't have to trust everything he says implicitly. With that said, many of his comments and views, including those on hydroxi, can be consistently matched by the research and consensus of the medical community out there. He's just another piece to this.

You're still believing science works by consensus?



When I'm sick and I'm uncertain of what to do or what to take, I go see a doctor. Simple. I don't go onto WebMD or whatever else there is on google because I understand that I'm incapable of getting the nuances, subtleties, histories behind certain treatments, symptoms.

I do both. I go to a doctor and get his opinion, ask him what the best treatment is in his opinion, express any concerns I have about that treatment, get the needed prescriptions, and return home. Then I do pull up WebMD and search for what he told me, as well as alternative treatments. Sucks to be you if he makes a mistake.

Case in point: My mother fought Schleraderma for 30 years, the last several with me as caretaker as it weakened her. She had already lost a finger to the disease when I took over. Another finger started looking very bad and hurting her. We went to her rheumatologist, who suggested she have him take her second finger. She didn't want to. Back home, I was speaking with her sister, who also had similar issues. She suggested soaking the finger in betadine solution, since that is what her rheumatologist had suggested. So we did, after I verified that betadine would not be harmful. The finger stopped hurting and after a few days the scab broke off the end to reveal a clean, fresh, vibrant finger underneath.

Had I not questioned the doctor, who is a well-known and highly respected rheumatologist, she would have either lost another finger or been in excruciating pain for the rest of her life. Yeah... sucks to be you.


I'm trying to have a serious debate about whether or not this drug is really an effective treatment against COVID19, putting aside the politics and the rhetoric we're getting out there by the politicians and the establishment.

Oh, bull shavings!


You however feel the need to parrot what the president said as part of your arguments.

If I am parroting anyone, I am parroting what medical doctors who have actually treated patients are saying. Just because the President says something, it does not automatically make the statement false. That seems to be your problem... if Trump said it, it must be false, right? How is that any different than what you are accusing me of?

You go ahead and base your opinion on whatever disagrees with the politician you hate the most... but DAMMIT, man, do NOT start trying to scare others into dying over your damn biases!

TheRedneck



posted on Jul, 24 2020 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

Obviously, if you read the research it's completely flawed. HCQ does not work without zinc and obviously they did not use zinc in the study and are armatures that didn't do their research. Another failed study conducted by idiots. This is the most basic application if you look at the studies that were effective.
edit on 24-7-2020 by ambassado12 because: (no reason given)



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