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Seattle Police union leader sounds the alarm - They are coming through the door

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posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: Echo007

Who elects those city leaderships??

So who really bears the responsibility of curbing police over-reach??

Obviously you feel its someone other than you, and other like minded individuals working together??




posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: seagull

Police over reach has 2 avenues of recourse:

- Executive branch exerts control over its employees and creates guidelines and measurements that ensure appropriate actions
- Legislative branch legislates few laws for police to enforce, and possibly legislates a leash for the executive branch if over reach continues

In each of these, the ultimate responsibility is The People. But you know how elections go. Especially local elections.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I do indeed.

Doesn't change the fact that the only time change, for the better obviously, will occur is when people, enough of them, of goodwill willing to work together do so, and change things.

Whining about it does nothing.

I've had far too many encounters with police over the years...mostly due to my chronic condition--Lead foot. I've had two that were severe over-reach, harassment really, and required action.

It took a lot of work, over a space of several months, but I got them both fired. All the others were professionals who I treated as such, and had no issues.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: SKEPTEK

President Bush made a correct statement when he said, 'Either your with us, or with the Terrorist'. Then spelt out how Justice would be a reality.

Nowadays Justice is mentioned from time to time, but as a few years drift by, Nothing seems to happen.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

I have friends and relatives in Seattle.

Our closest friends who live in Seattle proper have decided to flee the city. Their children are grown and gone.

Now that the announcement was made about the 50% reduction they have decided to leave and never come back.

They were thinking about it before and felt unsafe in their middle class neighborhood already, but this clinched it for them.

We visited them last summer and Seattle was a hell hole then. There was feces and urine all over the downtown streets. The airport was the filth ridden and most graffitied I have seen and I have been to 3rd world airports. The underpasses in the city were littered with trash several feet deep.

Seattle was a dangerous, filthy and nasty city before CHAD/CHAZ and their little killing spree of 2 of their own black men and a child. Now my friends are terrified living there and are fleeing as fast as they can.

Their employer has a big office in my town, a conservative town in a conservative state and they are considering our town as a major possibility to move to.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: The2Billies
a reply to: JBurns

I have friends and relatives in Seattle.

Our closest friends who live in Seattle proper have decided to flee the city. Their children are grown and gone.

Now that the announcement was made about the 50% reduction they have decided to leave and never come back.

They were thinking about it before and felt unsafe in their middle class neighborhood already, but this clinched it for them.

We visited them last summer and Seattle was a hell hole then. There was feces and urine all over the downtown streets. The airport was the filth ridden and most graffitied I have seen and I have been to 3rd world airports. The underpasses in the city were littered with trash several feet deep.

Seattle was a dangerous, filthy and nasty city before CHAD/CHAZ and their little killing spree of 2 of their own black men and a child. Now my friends are terrified living there and are fleeing as fast as they can.

Their employer has a big office in my town, a conservative town in a conservative state and they are considering our town as a major possibility to move to.



Sounds familiar.

I have a buddy I went to High School with. He dreamed of moving to Seattle because of the music scene. He's a musician, and generally a pretty Liberal dude. He moved there in 1992, two years after graduation.

He's moving next month to get away from the "insanity" as he put it. He's completely torn up about it too. Feels like his dream was ripped from him.

He was very happy until about 2004. That's when things started going downhill (to him). I told him, to stop voting the way he does when he gets to Texas or he'll see the same thing happen. Never thought I'd hear him say it, but he says he's no longer voting Democrat, and considers himself an Independent since moderate Dems are being forced out of the party by the radical left.

I hope so. Good dude. Feel sorry for him, but maybe it will take losing the productive members of society for Seattle to wake up.
edit on 12-7-2020 by poncho1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

You have to admit those numbers are pretty important. The point is calling out the hypocrisy of those screaming for total & fundamental change over a phenomenon that causes far fewer deaths than murders of private citizens by other private citizens (typically of the same race)

We should all be concerned about any organization that espouses seismic and fundamental change based on a false premise while totally ignoring the much larger & glaring issues.

To your point, no one here (present company included) has excused the handful of officers who decided to dishonor the badge and become common criminals/murderers. Most, and I do mean a vast 99.9%, will never go down this road. Some won't because they truly enjoy their job and live up to the badge. Others won't because they know they'd face punishment (think of a cop who thought they could use their position to smuggle drugs, for instance). And a much smaller number (counted in the tens) will actually become criminals and sometimes even murderers.


Some cops are cruel and sadistic cold-blooded murderers, and you're okay with that. In fact, you're defending it. You actually seem to be good with it -- not just "okay" with it. Okay. Good to know.


I don't think anybody disagreed with that. In fact many here (myself included) explicitly agreed with this point.

Let me just get this straight though. Do you think police officers somehow setup & induce private citizens into committing crimes specifically so they can then turn around and murder them? Or is it more likely they come across a volatile criminal caught in the act of doing something illegal and things spiral out of control from there? Most of these murders you refer to are in fact manslaughter and even accidental not cold blooded murder.

You must know very little about law enforcement or the ridiculously high standards cops are held to. Cops are people with badges. They make mistakes. They have "off" days. They get scared. They worry. They dread certain situations and interactions. They have husbands, wives, kids and parents. They are members of their community just as you and I are. They have real life worries and concerns, and all of this is mixed in with the fact that doing a very low paying job will often result in people wanting or actually trying to kill them. Every time you go on duty, you have to live with the knowledge that someone somewhere doesn't want you to go home to your family and wants to put you down like an animal without any regard for your existance

How about working to reduce their workload/stress while simultaneously prevent erroneous interactions by not electing morons to public offices to write a law for each of their buddies, their lobbyists, their donors and everything they disagree with personally. This would go a long way to reducing those interactions

edit on 7/12/2020 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 07:17 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Look boadicea, just to be fair I will say I have read many of your posts and have always found you to be a well informed ATSer. I assume you are sincere when you say this. To give you the benefit of the doubt, what stats are you referring to by saying you are more likely to die by LEO than by a stranger? I assume the wording here is specifically to exclude close relatives/partners/etc?



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 08:20 PM
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originally posted by: SKEPTEK
a reply to: Boadicea

If I have to choose to side with the Police or Antifa / BLM, I'd side with the Police every day of the week and twice on Tuesday.


truth!!

we need our police. they are an important part of our society. without them, our nation is in for a world of trouble.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: hangedman13
a reply to: a325nt

Its ironic you blame the police for enforcing laws our "leaders" create. Is it the cops fault they have to deal with the blowback from laws they didn't create? Meanwhile the idiots who pass those laws get a pass. Maybe it time we start holding the law makers accountable?


^this^

There are many good cops out there who surprisingly obey by the rules, however lawmakers keep shifting the goal posts, it's hard to enforce the law when you don't know what the laws are anymore.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 09:06 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns


"Socialists" on Seattle's City Council are holding a "reasonable majority" of residents hostage by threatening to slash police spending by 50 percent, a union leader said Saturday.


"It's absolutely a travesty," said Seattle Police Officers Guild President Michael Solan, appearing on "Fox & Friends Weekend."


"They are no longer at the door - they are coming through the door"

"This is coming into your neighborhood if we don't wake up and stop this socialist threat immediately."

www.foxnews.com...

I know what side I'm on folks. I am with our police no matter what. They are holding regular Americans hostage with their radical and nonsensical efforts to defund police departments and bring their particular brand of AmericanCarnage to the suburbs, rural areas and your front yard.

Thin blue line all the way. These are brave men and women of outstanding moral character. Don't listen to the liars, they are good people doing a difficult, dangerous and thankless job. If you don't have their backs then you deserve the chaos and mayhem heading your way.


I've had my share of run in with the long arm of the law in years gone by...I can't remember a single time I didn't deserve what I was given or the way I was treated...



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 01:12 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

I was almost executed by an off duty officer who thought I might be driving a stolen car, at least that’s what he said with his gun to my head. Not the first or last over reaction not a fraction of the stories cops have told me about things they did, still I’m not dumb enough to axe the police department, the opposite, we should double there pay, double there training and maybe hire a few less. We should also revert to preventative measures like stiffer sentences Especially the death penalty and not purse victimless self harm like drug use in private.


edit on 13-7-2020 by circuitsports because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 01:31 AM
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originally posted by: circuitsports
a reply to: JBurns

I was almost executed by an off duty officer who thought I might be driving a stolen car, at least that’s what he said with his gun to my head. Not the first or last over reaction not a fraction of the stories cops have told me about things they did, still I’m not dumb enough to axe the police department, the opposite, we should double there pay, double there training and maybe hire a few less. We should also revert to preventative measures like stiffer sentences Especially the death penalty and not purse victimless self harm like drug use in private.



Agree on all counts


I'd love to see fewer legislators, ability to pass laws limited to something resembling "proven neccesity and Constitutional compatibility" and far, far fewer laws.



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 02:38 AM
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a reply to: a325nt

"I'm not a socialist"



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 06:43 AM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Boadicea

You have to admit those numbers are pretty important.


They are important in their own context... not in every context.

Every single death has to be considered on its own merits or lack thereof. Every single one. Officer John Doe doesn't get a free pass for unjustifiably killing one person because Joe Gangbanger unjustifiably killed three people across town. We don't tally up deaths at the end of the year and say, "Well, golly gee, gangbangers killed 100 people and cops only killed 10, so all the cops get a free pass."

No. Everyone is completely responsible and liable for their own actions in each and every incident.


The point is calling out the hypocrisy of those screaming for total & fundamental change over a phenomenon that causes far fewer deaths than murders of private citizens by other private citizens (typically of the same race)


I don't see their hypocrisy. All unjustifiable murders are wrong. That's why they're called "unjustifiable." And it's not hypocrisy to hold officers to the same standards of the law that they are charged with holding the rest of us to. The hypocrisy comes when folks don't hold cops to same standards as we hold everyone else.


We should all be concerned about any organization that espouses seismic and fundamental change based on a false premise while totally ignoring the much larger & glaring issues.


We should be VERY concerned about Marxist and Anarchist and AntiFascist groups exploit and propagandize and weaponize legitimate complaints for sinister purposes.


To your point, no one here (present company included) has excused the handful of officers who decided to dishonor the badge and become common criminals/murderers....I don't think anybody disagreed with that. In fact many here (myself included) explicitly agreed with this point.


Hmmmmm.... maybe... maybe not. You can read anything into it, and I can read anything out of it. I will say, however, that your OP did not make any distinction, but expressed complete loyalty to all cops -- good or bad. Hence my initial question.


You must know very little about law enforcement or the ridiculously high standards cops are held to.


Please. I don't need a lecture to know that cops are human. We are not talking about cops doing their jobs with honor and integrity. We are talking about cops who DON'T.


How about working to reduce their workload/stress while simultaneously prevent erroneous interactions by not electing morons to public offices to write a law for each of their buddies, their lobbyists, their donors and everything they disagree with personally. This would go a long way to reducing those interactions


I'm very happy to discuss police reform to improve the conditions for police. And I'm very happy not to vote for jackass critters. Those are exactly the discussions we should ALL be having -- not just on ATS, but nationally -- to both address the problems we have to address, and to take the wind out of the sails of the rabble rousers weaponizing the public's outrage. As well proper and necessary steps to hold bad cops accountable for their actions.



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 07:12 AM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Boadicea

Look boadicea, just to be fair I will say I have read many of your posts and have always found you to be a well informed ATSer. I assume you are sincere when you say this. To give you the benefit of the doubt, what stats are you referring to by saying you are more likely to die by LEO than by a stranger? I assume the wording here is specifically to exclude close relatives/partners/etc?


Yes, I am specifically saying "stranger" because the vast majority of homicides are committed by someone the victim knows. In the case of women, it is most likely their boyfriend/husband.

My apologies -- I cannot find the article I read that broke down the numbers now. At the time, I had actually been trying to find statistics on police killings of known gang members as opposed to the general population. I never did find the information I was looking for. And I'm apparently not using the right words to search, because the original article I read is not coming up again. Very frustrating!

Here is another article that crunches the numbers, with disturbing results, but not the stranger vs cop scenario:


They determined that police violence is one of the leading causes of death of young men in the United States. Overall, it’s estimated that the mortality rate is about 1.8 per 100,000 for men between the ages of 25 and 29. This ranks police use-of-force as the sixth leading cause of death for young men, placing it behind other public health issues like suicide and “accidents” — a category that includes drug overdoses and car accident deaths.

“Police are a substantial cause of death in the United States across groups,” first author Frank Edwards, Ph.D., tells Inverse. “They are contributing to early mortality for lots of people. Prior to this study, we didn’t fully appreciate the scale of that.”


As this article points out, we do not have complete and accurate numbers for all police-involved killings, so even the numbers cited are low. How low is unknown. I won't even pretend to guess.



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 09:12 AM
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He's a union leader. He is afraid there will be less officers and therefor less income for his union.

I'm skeptical about this

Deny ignorance.



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 09:15 AM
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I'm no rocket surgeon, but I figure. . .

. . . . the only way to reduce the number of cops would be to reduce the number of criminals and crimes.


Want to get rid of the police force?

Stop breaking the law.

*shrugs*



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: penroc3



Also if your not breaking the law you will not have interactions with the police.


First, I agree with everything else you wrote, however that sentence is not mirroring the reality. I respect the police and the important work they do each day.

However you do not need to break the law to have forced interactions with them. Just thinking about how often I got the cops called on my car. Each time they were respectful and one time they could have gone so far and impound it until the situation was cleared. Instead they gave me the benefit of the doubt and agreed to follow me home where I could show them evidence that proofs my innocence (readout the ECU and camera, show there was no burnout but cold tires in a roundabout at a very cold morning).

Just one time I got in a tense tango / argument with them. But that was regulated after they revisited their video and saw that the digital speed sign changed right after I went past it and the next one was not even in sight.

One time I had tires bordering on not good but had new ones ordered already. I told the policeman upfront. Gave him my papers and was like "oh btw all my tires are no doubt on the end of their road legal life but new ones are ordered". Policeman checks them anyways but gives me the thumbs up. They were still good by measurement but if that last mm was gone, they would reach the safety marker and not good in rain anymore.

Anyone want to avoid lengthy police encounters, stay legal, stay friendly, drive car with steering wheel on wrong side. Most just waive through after they see the headache coming. Some power through like badgers, though.



posted on Jul, 13 2020 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: JBurns
It’s funny the support that weirdo guy on his ranch got a ew years ago on this site, but no love for Seattle. I can’t remember the nuts name but there was a whole standoff and there was a huge circle jerk here in celebration. It’s time you guys admit your biases, we’d respect you more.



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