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originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Biology can not be denied. But if a person says they feel like a man/woman/tree inside then who am I to say they are wrong?
originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: SaturnFX
To be fair, most people follow dictionaries and the widely accepted use of the word woman. This is where "woman" means adult female and (for instance) "man" means adult male. “Female” is the sex and determined biologically by having two X chromosomes. This is the accepted scientific wisdom and differentiates sex in all mammals between male and female.
Gender politics is a comparatively new invention. Most people accept that gender is the characteristics or traits that refer to masculinity or femininity. If a man/male wants to dress up and look feminine, or a woman/female wants to look masculine then there are words for those situation too, and that’s not a problem.
But a female is a woman, but could make themselves look like a man by having massive surgical intervention hormones for life, but they cannot change their underlying biology so will never be a male. Similarly, a male can be made to look like a woman, but can never be female. There are edge cases, but these are comparatively rare.
Everyone forgets that in this ridiculous debate that trans people have much higher chances of mental illness and suicide. It’s one complex field and won’t be addressed by crapping on the English language, alienating normal people, and cancelling people who dare to hold different opinions.
But a female is a woman, but could make themselves look like a man by having massive surgical intervention hormones for life, but they cannot change their underlying biology so will never be a male. Similarly, a male can be made to look like a woman, but can never be female. There are edge cases, but these are comparatively rare.
originally posted by: paraphi
originally posted by: scraedtosleep
Biology can not be denied. But if a person says they feel like a man/woman/tree inside then who am I to say they are wrong?
I think that's the nub of the problem. A person can call themselves a tree, but they should not expect everyone to slavishly change their idea of what a tree is to pander to their on individual wants. Rearranging the English language to pander to a person who wants to be called a tree would be silly, eh?
Altering the english language to suit a small amount of people is silly.
But, these people exist, so what words then can catagorize?
originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: SaturnFX
Altering the english language to suit a small amount of people is silly.
Yes, it is, but that's exactly what has happened and is happening.
But, these people exist, so what words then can catagorize?
Yes, they do... and as this is a new reality, new words are appropriate and proper -- NOT appropriating words that already have specific meanings and apply to specific people. Biological females, including both child, pubescent and adult females, also still exist. Taking the words which define and describe the female reality is stealing someone else's identity, and leaving those persons (females) undefined... or, worse, re-defined in a male's image. And that's the problem.
Men who identify as "women" are still men -- NOT women. They are a subset of men -- NOT women. Their descriptors should reflect their male reality -- NOT female. To be specific, they are "trans men", NOT trans women.
of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.
An adult human female.
originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: SaturnFX
You don't know? Or are we playing some kind of "gotcha" game?
Female:
of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.
Oxford English Dictionary
Woman
An adult human female.
Oxford English Dictionary
To elaborate, "female" applies to all bodies whose reproductive systems are designed to produce eggs or large gametes, and "male" applies to all bodies whose reproductive systems are designed to produce sperm or small gametes.
Female and male applies to all such animals, woman and man refers to humans specifically. So whereas "woman" refers to adult human females, "ewe" refers to an adult female sheep, "mare" refers to an adult female horse, "doe" refers to an adult female deer, etc.
But somehow I'm pretty sure you knew this already...
distinctively feminine nature
originally posted by: Boadicea
Or are we playing some kind of "gotcha" game?
gender vs sex lets answer that What is sex of a person (dictionary) what is gender of a person (dictionary) Why will nobody answer this outside of what they "feel" it means? what is the difference?
Sidenote, I figure calling a trans a "fem" might be a thing, but hasn't yet caught on...
originally posted by: SaturnFX
originally posted by: scrounger
originally posted by: SaturnFX
originally posted by: scrounger
gender/sex in biological terms is THE SAME THING.
I guess I will repeat since you seem to like to repeat also
sex is biological
gender is personal/social identity
Sorry if you missed this class in school, but its easy to brush up on your education.
Not to worry though, at least 50% of the population is around the same level as you appear to be, so don't feel too bad.
um which part of
XX chromosomes your a BIOLOGICAL FEMALE
XY chromosomes your a BIOLOGICAL MALE
is wrong and up for debate
what part of we are HUMANS that only have one sex / gender is wrong..
again I pointed out with your example by picture if you take a blood sample and test it ..
it will show either XX or XY.. not anything other
that humans have male and female
you can name call and repeat your rants till doomsday.
if I send any "transsexual" blood sample to a SCIENTIFIC TESTING SITE that is the ONLY TWO OPTIONS that will come out..
dressing , body surgery, hormones, and "identity" will not change that..
scrounger
Like debating with rainmain
so your debate style is to make snark childish personal attacks instead of adressing the issue(s) at hand.. not only does that harm if not destroy any crediblity on your discussion. but it shows a lack of civiilty required for adult discussion.. BTW notice only you are acting this way.
I am not talking about male and female, I am talking about man and woman
no your trying to change the BIOLOGICAL definition to match what you want it to
I am not talking about transsexual, I am discussing transgender
no your trying to change the definition of the word to match your opinion/view when it doesnt match biological facts
Since you can't debate in good faith to even discuss what is being discussed, to include giving you definitions of what gender is vs sex,
no I gave you the BIOLOGICAL definitions of not only male/female but of what a human is. to which in BIOLOGICAL facts gender and sex are identical. i provided FACTS that contradict your VIEW.. you cant accept that so to you "debate" isnt happening.
then you aren't here to debate,
no you are not debating.. because the debate isnt going your own way.. so you resort by this comment to the old propoganda tactic "accuse others of the sins your committing"
you are here for typing practice and to air your proud ignorance it seems.
again with a personal attack.. along with accusing "ignorance" when the facts do not support your claim.. an emotional rant .
Feel free to write back when you decide to start debating the topic.
no what you want is for me to agree with your point and accept a reality that is not supported by facts... that isnt debate btw thats an agreement.
The discussion is about apples. stop bringing up oranges.
originally posted by: schuyler
Try meditating on whether or not you have a "Y" chromosome in every cell of your body. That's all you really need to know. If you can't figure it out, see a shrink; you are mentally ill.
originally posted by: scrounger
no your trying to change the BIOLOGICAL definition to match what you want it to
I am not talking about transsexual, I am discussing transgender
no your trying to change the definition of the word to match your opinion/view when it doesnt match biological facts
originally posted by: SaturnFX
originally posted by: scrounger
no your trying to change the BIOLOGICAL definition to match what you want it to
I am not talking about transsexual, I am discussing transgender
no your trying to change the definition of the word to match your opinion/view when it doesnt match biological facts
What is the dictionary definition of gender?
what is the dictionary definition of sex?
What is the differences when you compare the two...from a dictionary
Boadicea ALREADY DID THAT in his posts. but now you want it repeated? common clearly anyone can see your trying to deflect or at least IGNORE what you dont want to read .. much less accept
You are disingenuous and debate in bad faith.
the only "bad faith" as it were is i WONT agree with you or change FACTS/DEFINITIONS to meet your emotions.. if i agreed with your opinions over facts you be all for that.. however that is not a discussion but an agreement..
There is nothing more to discuss since you reject the very basic rooted definition
EXCUSE ME? i provided the "definitions" (along with Boadicea) of BIOLOGICAL SEX/GENDER. you continue to ignore it because it doesnt fit what you want.
and demand your opinion trumps reality of the differences in the words.
again you accuse me of the "sins yourself are doing" (propoganda 101).. the REALITY (for the 10 or more time) is GENDER/SEX is in HUMANS MALE OR FEMALE . determined if you have XX chromosome (biological female) or XY chromosome (biological male) that is DETERMINED IN GESTATION and SET AT BIRTH. period...
If you reply back, I will only answer when you provide the actual definition of the two things...not definition according to you, but real definitions
originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: Boadicea
what poeple sharing this view are attempting is to change the definition of something (in this case gender) to match what they want it to be (aka emotion).
anyone who points this out, no matter how respectfully and/or refuses to change reality/definitions to match what they want become targets for ranting, personal attacks (like the responses to me) .
I suspect its because they cannot handle the truth and want the rest of us to accept their PERCEPTION of reality.
originally posted by: scrounger
im sorry but i and Boadicea have provided OVER AND OVER definitions .
originally posted by: SaturnFX
originally posted by: scrounger
im sorry but i and Boadicea have provided OVER AND OVER definitions .
Nope, hasn't happened yet, so I will do it for you
Sex: either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.
Gender: either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones
now, I want you to study the gender section. take a day or two and reflect on the bit at the end where is says "social and cultural differences rather than biological ones."
These are two different meanings. sex and gender are not the same word.
You are not debating in good faith. There is no debating until you start, so either we go from here with your acceptance that you were wrong as per definition, or you can just go shout your opinions over facts to a wall, knowing you are either willfully ignorant, or just flat out lying at this point.
originally posted by: SaturnFX
These are two different meanings. sex and gender are not the same word.