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Native Americans travelled to East Polynesia

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posted on Jul, 14 2020 @ 12:27 PM
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I have read of a list of new world plants in a book on New World anthropology, but had not been able to find one, but here is one.





When we look at other plants on the islands, the American connection cannot be ignored.

A large gourd or calabash (Cucurbita maxima) is cultivated in Hawaii and is used for; storage, water containers and ceremonial helmets. It is a North American plant. The plaiting of nets around the gourds was done in almost exactly the same manner by Californian tribes who made fish hooks and sewn planked canoes in a similar manner to Hawai'ians.

Wild 26 chromozome cotton is found throughout the Pacific - 13 chromozomes originating from America and and 13 from Africa, yet despite its wide trans Pacific distribution, Pacific islanders of today do not use it for making rope or fabric. It was most likely spread during an earlier period of global seafaring between three and ten thousand years ago.

Geneticists may one day be able to put a date on its arrival in the Pacific.

The Kumara or sweet potato (Ipomoea Batatas) is a South American plant. The Kechua dialect of north Peru name for sweet potato is Kumar. As the general name for the plant is Kumara throughout the Pacific, the tuber must have been obtained from an area that used the name Kumar. More recent studies indicate that another variety of sweet potato arrived from Central America and was different to the Peruvian variety.

A small but tasty pineapple as well as a tastless paw paw (both S. American plants) is found amongst ruins in the Marquesas. Incidentally, skulls found in burial mounds as seen by Thor Heyerdahl in the Marquesas were distinctly Caucasian, suggesting their origins were from people related to the red haired Paracas mummies of Peru and not rocker jawed individuals from Taiwan via Canada.

The totora reed of Lake Titicaca is used for raft building, this same reed is also found growing in abundance in the crater lake Rano Raraku on Rapa nui. There is a legend that the God Ure brought it there.

Is it mere coincidence that Maori also make their canoes out of the Totora tree? It appears to be so named because of its importance as a boat building material.




New World Plants of the Pacific Basin



posted on Jul, 14 2020 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10
I have read of a list of new world plants in a book on New World anthropology, but had not been able to find one, but here is one.





When we look at other plants on the islands, the American connection cannot be ignored.

A large gourd or calabash (Cucurbita maxima) is cultivated in Hawaii and is used for; storage, water containers and ceremonial helmets. It is a North American plant. The plaiting of nets around the gourds was done in almost exactly the same manner by Californian tribes who made fish hooks and sewn planked canoes in a similar manner to Hawai'ians.

Wild 26 chromozome cotton is found throughout the Pacific - 13 chromozomes originating from America and and 13 from Africa, yet despite its wide trans Pacific distribution, Pacific islanders of today do not use it for making rope or fabric. It was most likely spread during an earlier period of global seafaring between three and ten thousand years ago.

Geneticists may one day be able to put a date on its arrival in the Pacific.

The Kumara or sweet potato (Ipomoea Batatas) is a South American plant. The Kechua dialect of north Peru name for sweet potato is Kumar. As the general name for the plant is Kumara throughout the Pacific, the tuber must have been obtained from an area that used the name Kumar. More recent studies indicate that another variety of sweet potato arrived from Central America and was different to the Peruvian variety.

A small but tasty pineapple as well as a tastless paw paw (both S. American plants) is found amongst ruins in the Marquesas. Incidentally, skulls found in burial mounds as seen by Thor Heyerdahl in the Marquesas were distinctly Caucasian, suggesting their origins were from people related to the red haired Paracas mummies of Peru and not rocker jawed individuals from Taiwan via Canada.

The totora reed of Lake Titicaca is used for raft building, this same reed is also found growing in abundance in the crater lake Rano Raraku on Rapa nui. There is a legend that the God Ure brought it there.

Is it mere coincidence that Maori also make their canoes out of the Totora tree? It appears to be so named because of its importance as a boat building material.




New World Plants of the Pacific Basin



Howdy Punkinworks10

A bit busy today (odd for being under lock down but helping my wife do online courses) will comment in detail later. however too items I know off the top of my head




The Tamil Bell: This broken bell was obtained by the late Rev. W. Colenso in the early days of European occupation of these isles; he found natives using it as a cooking vessel, and they informed him that, some time before, a large tree had been blown down and its fall exposed the bell. It is said at p. 40 of vol. 4 of the Transactions of the N.Z. Institute to have been so found ‘in the interior of the North Island.’ In Te Ika a Maui, p. 34 of second edition, the Rev. R. Taylor states that it was found at Whangarei. It was discussed in the Weekly News of Auckland, issue of 12th November, 1903. Inside the bell, now in the custody of the Dominion Museum, is a paper, signed W. C., stating that it was found in the interior of the North Island in 1836. An inscription on the bell is in Tamil script, and has been rendered as “Mohoyiden buks ship's bell.” On 2nd June, 1923, the Bishop of Dornakal, South India, examined the bell and observed that it is not an artifact of great antiquity, inasmuch as the name Mohoyiden is a Mahometan name. Both forms of the Tamil script given at p. 40 of vol. 4, Transactions N.Z. Institute, are comparatively modern, neither represents the really ancient form of Tamil script.


www.jps.auckland.ac.nz...

Tortora reed: The folks on Rapa Nui call it nga'atu, it is currently thought it has been on that island for 30,000 years.

Fischer, Steven R. Drought, vegetation change, and human history on Rapa Nui Reaktion Books, 2005 ISBN 978-1-86189-245-4 pp. 7-8




But what is no less important is that Heyerdahl is assuming that the Chilean wine palm is indeed identical to the Easter Island palm, and John Dransfield of Kew Gardens in England has reported that, while the Chilean wine palm and the extinct Easter Island palm are quite similar to one another in some ways, the differences are significant enough that he named the Easter Island palm Paschalococos disperta. It is in fact a different species. This is instantly reminiscent of Heyerdahl’s bold and erroneous comparison between totora reeds on Easter Island and those on mainland Chile. They are both totora reeds, yes, but the Peruvian reed is Scirpus tatora, while the Easter Island variety is Scirpus riparius. Moreover, despite Heyerdahl’s initial assumptions that the Easter Island reed came from South America, whether it did or not is not relevant in so far as it is both a different genus and was present on the island 30,000 years ago — long before humans ventured into the Pacific (from west or east).Text


web.archive.org...://www.islandheritage.org/faq.html

I'm always wary of mainstream sources that attack the fringe and equally of fringe sources who attack academics. It usually means their egos are involved and they aren't always doing due diligence.



posted on Jul, 21 2020 @ 02:20 AM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10
Ima leave this right here
Datura(Jimson weed) presence in the Old World by the 1st millenium CE.





Datura
(Solanaceae) is a small genus of plants that, for long, was thought to occur naturally in both the New and OldWorlds. However, recent studies indicate that all species in the genus originated in the Americas. This finding has prompted the conclusion that no species of Datura could have been present in the Old World prior to its introductionthere by Europeans in the early 16th century CE. Further, the textual evidence traditionally cited in support of a pre-Columbian Old World presence of Datura species is suggested to be due to the misreading of classical Greek andArabic sources. As a result, botanists generally accept the opinion that Datura species were transferred into the OldWorld in the post-Columbian period. While the taxonomic and geographic evidence for a New World origin for all the Datura species appears to be well supported, the assertion that Datura species were not known in the Old World priorto the 16th century is based on a limited examination of the pre-Columbian non-Anglo sources. We draw on old Arabicand Indic texts and southern Indian iconographic representations to show that there is conclusive evidence for the pre-Columbian presence of at least one species of
Datura in the Old World. Given the systematic evidence for a NewWorld origin of the genus, the most plausible explanation for this presence is a relatively recent but pre-Columbian(probably first millennium CE) transfer of at least one Datura species, D. meteL, into the Old World. Because D. metel is a domesticated species with a disjunct distribution, this might represent an instance of human-mediated transportfrom the New World to the Old World, as in the case of the sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas)


I would note that it is likely Datura has been in Eastern India for up to 4000 years as it is an integral part of Munda rituals, and an analysis of the datura used by them shops a close relationship to species from California, where datura has its highest diversity.
The Munda also have a North American derived story as part of their creation mythos.
There is also a species of wild potato, related to the 4 corners potato that has been in the news as of late, used by New Guinnea highland tribesman.
Throw in the the wild tobacco of northern Australia(catalogued by the first English botanist to explore the interior in the 1830's) and it is pretty hard to argue against New World incursions into the old world.



The thing about Jimson Weed is that it grows fairly well in even temperate climates and the seeds are incredibly hardy, being able to go to sleep and nap until environmental conditions are again conducive.

We know that there were extended temperate periods in Beringia that not only allowed for prolonged habitation and tons of edible herbs and vegetation but it sat in the middlw of a now interrupted migration route from West to East and back again. I think you and I bkth agree in early adaptation of seafaring and that hugging the Pacific Coast was the most likely method of travelling south.

And this next part is pure hypothetical speculation on my part, but what if there was some sort of early, preliminary trade occurring? Nothing of such magnitude that it would necessarily be dredged from the Bering Sea But things like seeds are easily brought along by accident. If this route went both ways before transoceanic currents were understood to the degree we see with the Polynesians and their a systematic colonization on nearly every inhabitable rock from the Eastern Pacific to the Western portion, then it's not unrealistic for plants at least to make it from.thw New World to the Old or vice versa. Sorry. Your OP got me brainstorming and that never leads anywhere good!



posted on Jul, 21 2020 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: punkinworks10
Ima leave this right here
Datura(Jimson weed) presence in the Old World by the 1st millenium CE.





Datura
(Solanaceae) is a small genus of plants that, for long, was thought to occur naturally in both the New and OldWorlds. However, recent studies indicate that all species in the genus originated in the Americas. This finding has prompted the conclusion that no species of Datura could have been present in the Old World prior to its introductionthere by Europeans in the early 16th century CE. Further, the textual evidence traditionally cited in support of a pre-Columbian Old World presence of Datura species is suggested to be due to the misreading of classical Greek andArabic sources. As a result, botanists generally accept the opinion that Datura species were transferred into the OldWorld in the post-Columbian period. While the taxonomic and geographic evidence for a New World origin for all the Datura species appears to be well supported, the assertion that Datura species were not known in the Old World priorto the 16th century is based on a limited examination of the pre-Columbian non-Anglo sources. We draw on old Arabicand Indic texts and southern Indian iconographic representations to show that there is conclusive evidence for the pre-Columbian presence of at least one species of
Datura in the Old World. Given the systematic evidence for a NewWorld origin of the genus, the most plausible explanation for this presence is a relatively recent but pre-Columbian(probably first millennium CE) transfer of at least one Datura species, D. meteL, into the Old World. Because D. metel is a domesticated species with a disjunct distribution, this might represent an instance of human-mediated transportfrom the New World to the Old World, as in the case of the sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas)


I would note that it is likely Datura has been in Eastern India for up to 4000 years as it is an integral part of Munda rituals, and an analysis of the datura used by them shops a close relationship to species from California, where datura has its highest diversity.
The Munda also have a North American derived story as part of their creation mythos.
There is also a species of wild potato, related to the 4 corners potato that has been in the news as of late, used by New Guinnea highland tribesman.
Throw in the the wild tobacco of northern Australia(catalogued by the first English botanist to explore the interior in the 1830's) and it is pretty hard to argue against New World incursions into the old world.



The thing about Jimson Weed is that it grows fairly well in even temperate climates and the seeds are incredibly hardy, being able to go to sleep and nap until environmental conditions are again conducive.

We know that there were extended temperate periods in Beringia that not only allowed for prolonged habitation and tons of edible herbs and vegetation but it sat in the middlw of a now interrupted migration route from West to East and back again. I think you and I bkth agree in early adaptation of seafaring and that hugging the Pacific Coast was the most likely method of travelling south.

And this next part is pure hypothetical speculation on my part, but what if there was some sort of early, preliminary trade occurring? Nothing of such magnitude that it would necessarily be dredged from the Bering Sea But things like seeds are easily brought along by accident. If this route went both ways before transoceanic currents were understood to the degree we see with the Polynesians and their a systematic colonization on nearly every inhabitable rock from the Eastern Pacific to the Western portion, then it's not unrealistic for plants at least to make it from.thw New World to the Old or vice versa. Sorry. Your OP got me brainstorming and that never leads anywhere good!


Good speculation.

Having once walked into a datura 'patch' I can say they are rather prickly.

Its something could stick to a bird or log and move along without human help




posted on Jul, 21 2020 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: Hanslune

Yes, they're sticky, prickly annoying buggers for sure. And as you point out, easily dispersed if stuck to the fur of migrating animals or the belongings of early first nations people. But all ive got is hypothetical speculation, nothing close enough to resembling enough evidence to nring Occam and his razor into the discussion. But thanks, I appreciate the compliment!



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