I was reading some guy rolled out a phrase do you not know that we are to judge man

a reply to: highvein

Everything you are saying is based on your assumptions... beliefs... opinions... etc. You have absolutely no proof of anything Saul said being true. If that's what you want to believe and choose to believe, okay.

But I have no reason to think Saul was doing the Lord's work... I do have good reason to think otherwise though, due to the very fact that Saul's teachings contradicted Jesus' teachings in so many ways. This alone is a very clear indication that Saul is NOT doing the Lord's work. And that Saul may very well have interfered in the activities and ministries of those who were actually sharing Jesus' lessons.

You don't know what Christianity would be today without Saul. It might be BETTER.

a reply to: Boadicea

Hmm some Christian, ever heard of the Church of Antioch in the East or better known as Syriac Orthodox Church, back before it was even the state religion of the Roman empire the king of Syria had made it his state Religion, they even still hold there ceremonies today in Aramaic a dialect of the ancient language very close to the actual language that was common throughout the middle east two thousand years ago that allowed merchant's and travellers to converse even more than Greek and Later Latin did as they were also prevalent in the region.

The Syriac orthodoxy is also often referred to as the Church of St James among other titles.

Now like the Ethiopian Orthodoxy and to a lesser extend the Coptic Orthodox (whom had a war with the heretics whom were believers of a twisted version of Christianity filled with gnostic alchemical reinterpretation and additions from paganism) there own version's of the Scriptures so closely match those of the Catholic church (the Church of St Peter and Paul) in the west that that they are actually identical, there handed down traditions including venerations of the virgin Mary (Miriam) are so close as to be almost identical also and in fact the Syriac Orthodoxy within the last two hundred years JOINED the Catholic church, there was a schism over this and the remnant of the independent church may be almost extinct with the persecution of these Christian's by the Islamic factions that dominate there nation but of course you have heard of the oldest Christian city in the world Maaloula well that is in Syria as well.
en.wikipedia.org...

What I am pointing out is that THEY whom were not even the Church of Paul have nothing bad to say about him, neither have the Ethiopian Orthodox, the Coptic or the Greek Orthodox so why do you, what makes you so wise that you can challenge and defeat with your opinion the facts of Christianity for nearly 2000 years, Islam in it's infinite error and blasphemy has tried and failed to do likewise.

N.B.

The anti Paul scholars have tried over the course of the history of the Church to push there argument, they failed because they were Wrong, you have stepped into there shoes knowing less than they did?.
If you accept that Christ Jesus is the son of God and indeed God incarnate as man - the living word of God then you will go by faith and trust in his word, if you don't?.

a reply to: LABTECH767

If you accept that Christ Jesus is the son of God and indeed God incarnate as man - the living word of God then you will go by faith and trust in his word, if you don't?.

Of course I accept Jesus is the Son of God, and of course I have faith and trust in His word...

And Jesus' words and teachings were quite different than Saul's words. Such as those regarding judgment, which is reserved for the Lord. I do not have faith and trust in Saul's words.

Jesus did not recommend Saul to his Apostles or to us. Jesus did not tell us anything about Saul. All we know about this came from Saul -- not Jesus.

a reply to: Boadicea

As long as you put your trust and faith in Jesus I am no one to judge your point of view, ever since the scriptures were compiled from a much great body of writing's, many of which have been long since lost or else locked away perhaps only then to be lost when the city of Constantinople fell or hidden within the Vatican archives were they can not be read or are simply too fragile to read - and many of those have probable been lost due to there age even there in the past before modern preservation techniques, scholars have debated, some have rejected Paul and some have defended him.

My faith is that Jesus said this.
biblehub.com...

17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now to me that mean's that if someone has taught wrongly then Jesus will have little respect for them BUT did Paul teach wrongly, I personally do not believe he did.

The LAW is definitely still in affect, we live under grace and Jesus took the weight of the law unto himself to spare us, his blood the blood of the lamb of God has payed for our error's and we only have to truly turn to him to be forgiven.

And with God there is great mercy - for the repentant (But it has to be genuine and full repentance - God know's some of us are screwed up really badly and have battles within that we sometime's lose).

20For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” 21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!

So I very much believe in the salvation through faith - though I also believe that if we have faith we will do good work's when the opportunity show's itself or we are in the situation to do so and I have always to remember this non biblical masterpiece that is oft quoted on this site - courtesy of Wikipedia.
en.wikipedia.org...
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

a reply to: LABTECH767

Excellent scriptures -- and beautifully said. Everything.

There is always so much to consider, especially what we may not know and what we cannot know. This is where I default to "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak," and of course that if we cannot understand earthly things, how can we hope to understand Heavenly things?

Faith tells us that there is hope because Jesus knows and Jesus understands, and He came to suffer the unimaginable in order for us to reach the impossible, because with God all things are possible.

For what it's worth, I do not condemn Saul. Because it's not my place -- for all of the above and before. I can only do my best to reserve my judgment to direct myself. All the while knowing that I have and will fall short and hope that a little of that divine grace and mercy you spoke of comes my way...