Who started the next Art phase after Stick Figures?

Originally posted by Byrd
My passion is "rock art"; petroglyphs and pictographs of the ancients... and I'm particularly interested in the American Indian material of the Pecos region in Texas
www.rockart.org...

A very nice layed out site, Byrd. Thanks for posting that. I really loved the fact the pictures has some translastion text, as I'm not very familiar with North American art.

In other matters, I'm pleased that folks here were able to prove that my friends theory of possible art intervention is likely unfounded. Plus, some really interesting historical data has appeared in the thread. Those of us who don't have an art degree are probably missing a huge slice of world history.

-VW

"Those of us who don't have an art degree are probably missing a huge slice of world history"


There are traveling museum cultural expositions pretty regularly in most major US cities, and the world over. these are excellent resources to see art and crafts that are thousands of years old. The musuem of Natural History in Mexico City is awesome, the smithsonian in DC is great also.

I was in Washington DC , a Peruvian Indian gold exposition was there. Dont know if we would be capable of reproducing some of the art they created 4000 years ago. Incredibly intricate Gold work, paper thin full size masks embedded with Gems and polished minerals, tiny statues holding tiny weapons made from gems, it was incredibly humbling.

Could someone U2U me with instructions how to post those Bold red links? i am link challenged. thank you !

Something that I've found interesting as I write about culture is to reframe unusual/unknown/lesser known cultures in terms of "what happened in our history."

So, in talking about the Peocs River style and the Jumano Indians (and their ancestors), I mention that the White Shaman was painted (we think) during the time of the Egyptian Pharoahs... that the Anasazi civilization was declining due to a long drought during the time of Henry II, Richard the Lionhearted, and the Crusades.

Originally posted by toolmaker
There are traveling museum cultural expositions pretty regularly in most major US cities, and the world over. these are excellent resources to see art and crafts that are thousands of years old. The musuem of Natural History in Mexico City is awesome, the smithsonian in DC is great also.

Well I meant that unless one took old or ancient art as a major hobby or career, it would be hard to manage all the data that is available to us.

For example, what if I wanted to know details (pics, dates, cultures, locations), of all ancient art that depicts possible aliens, how would I find it all? There is so much of that kind of art, scattered around the globe, mentioned in books, tv articles, etc.

Could someone U2U me with instructions how to post those Bold red links? i am link challenged. thank you !

I did send you an U2U, but it really messed up the code I was trying to explain. Better way?......Use the post toolbar to insert links. Click the little blue/green earth icon in the toolbar, and follow the prompts. After you have done this a few times, the actual code you need to use will be apparent. I never use the toolbar anymore, I just insert the code manually.

-VW

Originally posted by Byrd

So, in talking about the Peocs River style and the Jumano Indians (and their ancestors), I mention that the White Shaman was painted (we think) during the time of the Egyptian Pharoahs... that the Anasazi civilization was declining due to a long drought during the time of Henry II, Richard the Lionhearted, and the Crusades.

Interesting. Was this found through carbon dating, or some other test?

Things like this that I find the most fascinating:

1. When a same piece of ancient art is found in 2 places, very far from each other (not sure if all of those reports have all been de-bunked or not).
   
   
2. When ancients created art that included topics that another culture, halfway across the world, also created.
   
   
3. And what time frame these creations occurred.

-VW

Originally posted by VisionWithin
Interesting. Was this found through carbon dating, or some other test?

Archaeologists don't date a piece by a single method. In this case, the date was established by other dating methods and by dating "cultural material" (artifacts) and by dating other sites with similar art. There's not a lot of this around... perhaps a few hundred sites. This Period 2 type Pecos River art is my favorite.

When a same piece of ancient art is found in 2 places, very far from each other (not sure if all of those reports have all been de-bunked or not).

Depends on the report. In some cases, there is good documentation for how it got there (American Indians would travel long distances to exchange goods and at least one Texas tribe (the Jumanos) functioned as traveling traders between the Caddos and the more eastern tribes over to the Puebloan tribes of New Mexico and so forth. I was looking at a piece of hematite (used for paint) that had been brought up from a lake near Mason, Texas (several hundred miles away) to the site called Paint Rock (near San Angelo.)

So it's possible for artifacts and goods and ideas from one culture to travel to another that's quite a distance away.

When ancients created art that included topics that another culture, halfway across the world, also created.

That speaks more of human nature than anything else. Rain gods are very common and rain gods with clouds and lightning are also very common. Goddesses for birth protection are common... and so forth.

Certain concepts are also universals... taboos against marrying your kinfolk, for instance, are almost universal. Taboos against murdering others in your social group are also an almost universal concept.

Originally posted by Byrd
Something that I've found interesting as I write about culture is to reframe unusual/unknown/lesser known cultures in terms of "what happened in our history."

So, in talking about the Peocs River style and the Jumano Indians (and their ancestors), I mention that the White Shaman was painted (we think) during the time of the Egyptian Pharoahs... that the Anasazi civilization was declining due to a long drought during the time of Henry II, Richard the Lionhearted, and the Crusades.

That really is so helpful, I would LOVE to see that context in all historical writing. It seems so boxed in and one dimensional at times.

I've been looking for timeline summaries pertaining to things like that. Civilizations, religions (would be excellent), or even animated world maps and such that show the spread of things simultaneously.

Any resource suggestions? Yikes, sorry.. not about stick art.

I must say, I have thoroughly enjoyed this post/topic. I love all things art- for me it's the purest expression of the soul. This topic has certainly opened my eyes to ideas that I have previously overlooked or took for granted. (thanks toolmaker, good insights )

Anyhow, lets keep it up!

Side question: anyone have Illuminated manuscripts? or know a good place to find them?


peace

me too serum.

love discussing ancient cultures and their history.


Art is so highly undervalued, rated, etc. If you think about what we find regarding ancient cultures, it is most often their Art that tells us their history and information regarding same.
Its their Art that we find, even after 30,000 years. It is a shame our culture does not support the arts more; NEA, etc.

( hate to think 30,000 years from now someone finds the Golden arches in front of buried mcdonalds and thinks that was Art).

lol your "golden arches comment"- hysterical! Totally agree... imagine a future culture debating over whether or not the "arches" are a cosmic stargate... or whether they hold they key to the "digital hall of records!"

But your right... its a shame art is usually one of the first things to go when the budget machette comes a' swinging...

And I dont believe enough parents encourage their kids artistically speaking. Just because "johnny" cant draw a still life doesnt mean he lacks imagination and creativity. In our home EVERYONE is encouraged to create. Just create....


Peace