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Meet the Philosopher Whom Invented Fascism. Giovanni Gentile.

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posted on Jul, 3 2020 @ 10:26 PM
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(In a final attempt at bringing clarity to a topic which has divided ATS members so much I am re-posting this in this forum to start a discussion)

Most people know next to nothing about Giovanni Gentile, because to know him is to know how fascism was born, and what doctrines were used as it's basis. But first, a little bit of history about Giovanni Gentile. Giovanni Gentile was born on May 29, 1875. He was an Italian neo-Hegelian philosopher, and educator whose principles were idealistic. He was also a fascist politician, the philosopher whom invented fascism, and he was the ghostwriter for part of Mussolini's doctrines of fascism, which they both wrote.

In the mind of Gentile Liberal Democracies like the U.S. gave too much power to the individual, and thus were selfish in nature. In his mind the perfect "democracy" was a democracy in which the people gave themselves completely to the state. A state which controlled everything, everyone, and every part of people's lives. In fact, Gentile thought that the state should resemble a family. A family which controls even adult children.

Some of the main influencers of Gentile's fascist philosophy included the socialist ideas of Karl Marx, and Sorel among some others. But you don't have to believe me. You can read it from Gentile himself.


Fascism as a consequence of its Marxian and Sorelian patrimony... conjoined with the influence of contemporary Italian idealism, through which Fascist thought attained maturity, conceives philosophy as praxis.“ — Giovanni Gentile Origini e dottrina del fascismo, Rome (1929) p. 58, A. James Gregor, The Ideology of Fascism: The Rationale of Totalitarianism, New York: NY, The Free Press (1969) p. 317

...


Source: quotepark.com...

Gentile was in fact against individual liberty and personal rights, as in his opinion this made men/women selfish.


„The merit of Fascism was that it courageously and vigorously opposed itself to the prejudices of contemporary liberalism—to affirm that the liberty proposed by liberalism serves neither the people nor the individual.“ — Giovanni Gentile Orgini e dottrina del fascismo, Rome: Libreria del Littorio, (1929). Origins and Doctrine of Fascism, A. James Gregor, translator and editor, Transaction Publishers (2003) p. 31
...


Source: quotepark.com...


In Fascism, as in Communism, the idea of the future was based on a critique of bourgeois modernity… It rose from a variety of currents and from authors of very different origins, all of whom demonized the bourgeoisie. The doctrine was cast as post-Marxist, not as pre-liberal.“ — François Furet French historian 1927 - 1997 Source: The Passing of an Illusion, The Idea of Communism in the Twentieth Century (1999), p. 175
...


Source: quotepark.com...

Some of you are going to once again proclaim "but what of nationalism? Isn't that a right-wing philosophy?" It is not. There is national Socialism and there is national Communism. Neither of which are "right-wing."

If being nationalistic means being right-wing then Stalin, Mao, the castro brothers, and so many others in the left were "right-wing"?

There will be others, whom as they have done in the past, will proclaim that because the nazis were against other forms of socialism that it means they were not socialists, and this is a false premise.

You don't have to believe me, you can read it from Gentile yourself...


It is necessary to distinguish between socialism and socialism—in fact, between idea and idea of the same socialist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fascism. It is well known that Sorellian syndicalism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fascism emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Marxist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.“ — Giovanni Gentile
...


Here is what some other philosophers have to say about fascism.


„As have been indicated, many Fascist theoreticians, throughout their active political lives, acknowledged the affinities between Fascism and Marxist-Leninism. There were even Italian Marxist-Leninists--including Nicola Bombacci, one of the founders of his nation's Communist Party--who conceived of Fascism as the only viable form of Marxism for economically retrograde communities.“ — A. James Gregor American political scientist 1929 - 2019 Source: The Faces of Janus: Marxism and Fascism in the Twentieth Century, (2000), p. 168
...


Source: quotepark.com...



„There were two modern ideas of the State which, they believed, had the same tendency to set up a despotic administrative system. One was the deification of the State and the absolute subordination of the individual to it. That was the solution of Fascism and, as they added later, of National Socialism. The other was the State of the common weal, or, as would be said today, the State of social services. It was the modern form of the ‘philanthropic’ State, in which the individual was controlled for his good by the State, down to the smallest details of life. The Bolshevist State, they considered, lay in the line of this conception.“ — Hermann Rauschning German politician 1887 - 1982 Source: Men in Chaos (1942), pp. 138-139


Source: quotepark.com...

But for some unexplained reason, "fascism is right-wing." When those of us whom lean to the right are against big government, and are pro-liberty, pro-individuality, and pro-individual/personal rights. The people are only free, when everyone has individual rights. When you take away those individual rights, for the good of x you favor a dictatorship in which the state controls it all, including your thoughts and ideas.




posted on Jul, 3 2020 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sound like he was the original Alt-Left.



posted on Jul, 3 2020 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

Yep. But the left won't accept it, even when Giovanni Gentile, and many others knew this to be true.

BTW, notice that the socialist elites of today want a new form of socialist world government "derived from corporate governance..." AKA FASCISM... Which is what the UN, and the socialist elites are pushing for.



edit on 3-7-2020 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 12:00 AM
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I would have figured that by now there would have been a lot of people getting pissy in this thread.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: AutomateThis1

They will just ignore it because they can't refute facts. Just like they ignore how liberals start using racial slurs against minorities whom dare be conservative/right-wing, and pro-Trump.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 12:17 AM
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originally posted by: AutomateThis1
I would have figured that by now there would have been a lot of people getting pissy in this thread.


Which one of use are getting pissy? The ALt=LEft has been pushing this collectivism for years. They .have just married Big Teck and all that money. They have been pushing the collectivism since the socialist FDR.
edit on 4-7-2020 by PhilbertDezineck because: added thought.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 01:30 AM
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Why HASN'T this happened here, yet?

The 2nd Amendment.

The socialists will never gain control, over a gun bearing populace. Why do you think they want them so bad?
edit on 4-7-2020 by madmac5150 because: comma crazy



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: madmac5150
Why HASN'T this happened here, yet?

The 2nd Amendment.

The socialists will never gain control, over a gun bearing populace. Why do you think they want them so bad?


Ifn you asking me I would say the fruit needs to ripen and it needs to rot. The fruit of socialism has been ripening for 100 years while the fruit of independence has been slowly withering in our society. So it will happen here.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 02:18 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So the State controls the people, but who controls the State?

Absolute power corrupts absolutely



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 02:18 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Does it matter? If you call it left or right, what difference does it make?

If you got a solution for the fact that there are more people each year for less and less jobs, because of automatisation of the workplace that keeps the US in the price race of the free market, that would be something.
That keeps people fed without some socialism.
Let's talk about that, focusing on a solution for the future instead of blaming a ghost from the past.
You got something?

I believe subconsciously that's what pushes us towards a bottleneck event, the Elite wants to reduce the population and you blow the horn for them.
Be sure you know your enemy, ElectricUniverse lol



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 03:29 AM
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When those of us whom lean to the right are against big government, and are pro-liberty, pro-individuality, and pro-individual/personal rights.


Oh, please. That is an idealist view that has little to do with reality.

The reality is that many right wingers are also nationalist, xenophob, supremacist, bigot and wouldn't mind applying fascist methods against anyone opposing their views.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 05:46 AM
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originally posted by: moebius

When those of us whom lean to the right are against big government, and are pro-liberty, pro-individuality, and pro-individual/personal rights.


Oh, please. That is an idealist view that has little to do with reality.

The reality is that many right wingers are also nationalist, xenophob, supremacist, bigot and wouldn't mind applying fascist methods against anyone opposing their views.


I smell the dog whistle of a non theistic religion filled to the brim with racists and bigots! hue hue



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
...
That keeps people fed without some socialism.
Let's talk about that, focusing on a solution for the future instead of blaming a ghost from the past.
You got something?


Yes, stop all CO2 sequestration and instead allow atmospheric CO2 to increase. This will cause an increase in all haversts, and all plant life will use less water with higher concentrations of CO2...



originally posted by: Peeple
I believe subconsciously that's what pushes us towards a bottleneck event, the Elite wants to reduce the population and you blow the horn for them.
Be sure you know your enemy, ElectricUniverse lol


What in the world are you talking about? So, because I show the reality that fascism is left-wing I blew the horn for the global elites?... How does that make sense?...



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 11:17 AM
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How is it reality? Both Mussolini and Hitler called themselves right-wingers and killed/imprisoned the left wing socialist and communist opposition in their countries starting in 1922. Mussolini swore by the far-right tennents of nationalism, populism and republicanism and had the deputy leader of the socialist party kidnapped and murdered by paramilitary forces.

It's possible to get extreme left wing as much as it is on the extreme right wing. For example ecology and ecosystems were part of left wing fascism in the late 17th to early 18th century but calling Hitler or Mussolini left wing is a complete fabrication of history. Neither have anything to do with normal left or right wing policies.

I think you've misunderstood the quotes, especially the parts about liberalism. Liberalism means liberal in Europe, not Libertarian. True liberals believe in freedom, human rights and a live and let live approach to life, it's far closer to the US version of Libertarianism (but with a welfare state) than the corrupted US 'left' where the Democrats are actually in the extreme right wing and bordering on authoritarianism on the political compass the rest of the world outside the US uses.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 11:23 AM
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Then we have this and how "they" got the monkey off their backs....
😎


BIG LIAR How Theodor Adorno redefined Fascism


Fascism and Nazism are both phenomena of the left. This makes ideological sense, because at their core they represent ideologies of the centralized, all-powerful state. Moreover, fascism grew out of Marxism, and fascism’s founder Benito Mussolini, was a Marxist and lifelong socialist. Hitler, too, was a socialist who headed the National Socialist Party and in fact changed the name of the German Workers Party to make it the National Socialist German Workers Party.

How, then, did progressives in America re-define fascism and Nazism as phenomena of the right? This sleight-of-hand occurred after World War II, once fascism and Nazism were discredited with the reputation of Holocaust. Then progressives recognized it was important to cover up the leftist roots of fascism and Nazism and to move them from the left-wing column into the right-wing column.

The man most responsible for the progressive redefinition of fascism is Theodor Adorno, a German Marxist intellectual and a member of the influential Institute for Social Research, otherwise known as the Frankfurt School. The Frankfurt School scholars were leftists and most of them were refugees from Nazi Germany. Some settled in Europe; others like Adorno and Herbert Marcuse came to the United States.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: bastion

Either they didn't call "themselves" right wing, or it was a red herring 😎

Vetted quotes might help



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You keep feeding the beast. There's no left vs right outside your head.
It's all one game.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: bastion

First of all, the first thing that hitler did was to ask the international socialists and communists to join the national socialists. When they didn't he knew they were a threat, which is the same thing other socialists and communists did with other branches of socialists and communists... After all Stalin ordered the death of Trotsky, and it is believed he had a hand in the poisoning of Lenin. The castro brothers turned against socialists whom realized that communists were being allowed to join "the Cuban revolution," and most were executed, etc, etc... Not to mention the fact that Hitler also assassinated hundreds of top NAZI SA's because they were a threat to his power...


...
When we think of Nazi killing, genocide immediately comes to mind, particularly that of "6,000,00 Jews." But they also murdered for reasons other than race or religion. For one, the Nazis slew those who opposed or hindered them, whether actually or potentially. This was why Hitler assassinated hundreds of top Nazi SA's (Sturmabteilung)4 in June and July 1934, who under Ernst Rohm were becoming a strong competitor to the SS (Schutzstaffel); or executed perhaps 5,000 Germans after the 1944 plot on his life and attempted coup d'etat. Indeed, it is why critics, pacifists, conscientious objectors, campus rebels, dissidents, and others throughout the twelve-year history of the regime in Germany, were executed, disappeared, or slowly died in concentration camps. The Nazis thus killed some 288,000 Germans, not counting Jews, homosexuals, and those forcibly "euthanized." If these are included, then the Nazis murdered at least 498,000 Germans, probably 762,000. As shown in table 1.2, this was one out of every hundred Germans.
...

www.hawaii.edu...


It is not Germany that will turn Bolshevist, but Bolshevism that will become a sort of National Socialism. Besides, there is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separate us from it… The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communist always will.

Adolf Hitler

...

But first, there will have to be national socialism. Otherwise the people and their governments are not ready for the socialism of nations. It is not possible to be liberal to one's own country and demand socialism among nations.

Adolf Hitler

...

After all, that's exactly why we call ourselves National Socialists! We want to start by implementing socialism in our nation among our Volk! It is not until the individual nations are socialist that they can address themselves to international socialism.

Adolf Hitler

...

The party is all-embracing. It rules our lives in all their breadth and depth… There will be no license, no free space, in which the individual belongs to himself. This is Socialism… Let them then own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the party, is supreme over them, regardless whether they are owners or workers.

Adolf Hitler

...

In socialism of the future…what counts is the whole, the community of the Volk. The individual and his life play only a subsidiary role. He can be sacrificed—he is prepared to sacrifice himself should the whole demand it.

Adolf Hitler
...

libquotes.com...


edit on 4-7-2020 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You keep feeding the beast. There's no left vs right outside your head.
It's all one game.


Nope, I clarify whom the "beast" truly is. Those whom keep yelling "you are right-wing, you are pro-Trump you are a nazi" are many of the same people whom would have joined the nazis to begin with, and could be the next "nazi problem", or the next "marxist problem" if they are left unchecked. Look at the demands, and chants being made by radical groups like BLM, and Antifa calling for the death of whites as in the case of BLM, or for the subordination of whites to the "progressive/socialist/communist" goal. Not to mention their calls to murder police officers, which some of them are already doing.





edit on 4-7-2020 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.



posted on Jul, 4 2020 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Nope, I clarify whom the "beast" truly is. Those whom keep yelling "you are right-wing, you are pro-Trump you are a nazi" are many of the same people whom would have...


It's 'who', not 'whom'. Your grammar's as wonky as your politics.



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