It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Black-on-white violent crime much worse than I thought

page: 4
54
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 12:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Scapegrace
Ok I think I got your points.
You aren’t blaming skin color, because if I get a tan I probably won’t commit more crime.

Seems like you could be blaming certain ethnicities?

So where does this come from?
Are some people excused from crime due to skin color and money,

Are others arrested and convicted at higher rates,
Or arrested and convicted at young ages, creating a rap sheet that looks great on a resume?

There are a lot of factors, some are very hidden that point to the American culture of institutionalized racism.




posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 01:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: bender151
a reply to: Scapegrace

Never mind, did the homework. Might help to look at table 15 as well. Not sure I'm seeing the disparity that's being pointed out here. It seems all races commit violent crimes at comparable rates given their population, and the rates at which the offender is a different race than the victim are also relatively proportionate. That being said, each race is significantly more likely to commit a violent act towards someone of the same race, at the same rate as other races. Please point out where I'm wrong, but the numbers clearly dont show what the OP is trying to say.... which is basically just a bunch of "whatabout" nonsense.



You are completely wrong.

First lets go to table 12.

The first thing worth looking at is the percent ratio of population to offender.

you see the number is .8 for whites, and 1.8 for blacks. This means on average, blacks are about 2.25 times more likely to commit violent crimes than whites. This also happens to be almost the exact amount more blacks are more likely to be shot by police, something that is not a coincidence i am sure.

Now lets look at the total population of whites from that table. 171,493,180 Population of blacks, 33,132,390

You are correct most crimes with all ethncities occur within the racial group, ie black on black, white on whoite, etc.

But when comparing black on white crime vs white on black, it is clear black on white is far far more common.

So we can see from this table whites were the victims of violent crime 3,581,360 times in 2018. 15.3 percent of those crimes were committed by blacks, which would round out to about 547,948 violent crimes by blacks committed against whites.

There were a total of 563,940 violent crimes committed against blacks. 10.6 percent of those were committed by whites, which rounds out to 59,777 violent crimes of whites on blacks.

Now we take the population numbers, and figure out the chances of an individual of each race attacking the other race.

547,948 instances of black violent crimes on whites, divided by the total population of blacks, 33,132,390, gives us a percentage 1.654% on average of a black person committing a violent crime on a white.

59,777 violent crimes of whites committing them against blacks, divided by the total population of whites of 171,493,180, gives us a percentage of whites likelihood on average to commit a violent crime against blacks of .035%.

Lastly, we take the percentage likelihood of blacks to commit violent crimes against whites, divided by the likelihood of whites to commit crimes against blacks to give us the finalk number of how much more likely a black person is to committ a violent crime against whites.

so .035% divided by 1.654%, gives us 47.257


So in 2018, blacks are 47.257 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites than vice versa




I did these numbers from the same bureau stats in 2015 i believe, and the numbers came out to blacks were 23 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites than vice versa.

So that percentage has increased significantly.



So I am afraid to say you are completely wrong in saying the OP was wrong.



edit on 22-6-2020 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 01:17 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

The relevance of the stats outlined in the OP are to show the narratove being shoved down our throats about plice disproportionally abusing unarmed blacks is completely bogus. It ignores these populations committ more violent crome, and hence are more likely to have violent interactions with police.

You are right the focus should be less on race, and more on communities. In other words, a black person in my area of rural PA is not very likely to be shot by police. Why? because the most important factor isnt race, its the communities policing is occurring in, and how violent they are

So all of the rioting, destruction of property, calls to disband the police, and marxist agenda we see occurring right now is based on a lie.

Now i know someone like you whose first comment i saw on the riots were that the tree of liberty needed to be refreshed with the blood of tyrants would try to downplay these stats and just shout systemic racism, but for those of us who dont want bloodshed and violence, its important to look at all of the data and get a clear picture of what is happening.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 01:51 PM
link   
I now that I think on it more, i think the most relevant number to look here may be one that hasnt been discussed.

Lets go back to table 12.

Go over to the percent ratio column, and find offender to victim.

What this shows his how much more likely a particular group is to be a victim vs. offender.

So lets look at men to women.

Women were the offender of violent crimes 1,000,560 times, but the victim 3,181,960 times. This gives a offender to victim ratio of .3 to women.

Now this is confusing but follow me. For this ratio to be exactly 1.0, it would mean a group was equally likely to be an offender as victim.

So what this means is that a .3 ratio of offender to victim means women would have to commit more than 3x more crimes to get that ratio to 1.0

Hence women are over three times more likely to be the victim of violent crime than to commit it.



Ok so lets look at this based on ethnicity

Whites were offenders of violent crime 2,669,900 times, and victims of violent crime 3,957,720, giving them an offender to victim ratio of .8

This means whites were more likely to be victims of violent crime than commit it.



Now lets look at blacks. Blacks were offenders in 1,155,670 violent crimes, but were victims of violent crimes 644,710 times.

This means that blacks are twice a likely to commit violent crime than be the victims of it.

This doesnt mean all blacks, its just an average. And certainly even with these high numbers, this is still a very low percentage of blacks committing violent crimes, and so anyone using these stats to smear the entire black community is egregious and wrong.

But there is certainly a huge problem with crime in certain communities that are predominantly black, particularly in the inner city, so much so that blacks are the only listed ethnicity more likely to commit a violent crime than to be a victim of it, and its a factor of 2 to 1 which is staggering compared to other ethnicities.

We need to find out why this is the case (fatherlessness, culture, extreme poverty in high population density areas, and many many other factors) to make sure we as a country are doing all we can to help these communities.

But sadly we live in a time where its taboo to discuss the actual data, and we must just bow to BLM and yell racism at everything they claim we must.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 01:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Boadicea

Now i know someone like you whose first comment i saw on the riots were that the tree of liberty needed to be refreshed with the blood of tyrants would try to downplay these stats and just shout systemic racism...


LOL! Is your nose still tweaked about that?

Also, I can't help but notice your willful failure to quote my preceding quote: When peaceful revolution is made impossible, violent revolution is inevitable. Convenient that... you'll cry a river about the tree of liberty but play dumb to everything leading up to it.


...but for those of us who dont want bloodshed and violence, its important to look at all of the data and get a clear picture of what is happening.


Your virtue signalling is quite sad. If you really don't want bloodshed and violence, don't make pathetic excuses for the bloodshed and violence that comes from corrupt government critters -- including cops. Then stop focusing like a laser on skin color while REFUSING to recognize, acknowledge and condemn the many factors leading up to those numbers and statistics is exactly why it continues, and has been propagandized and weaponized. Looking at racial demographics certainly is not "all of the data."

Do you condemn the Boogaloo Boys for wanting/provoking armed revolution in our streets? For their declared war on cops? Do you like their flavor of bloodshed and violence in our streets? Or does their White skin give them a pass in your book?

You champion -- without exception -- cops who have already declared you, me and everyone else a mortal threat, who will kill first and ask questions later, playing judge, jury and executioner... and then are surprised that your approved brand of tyranny (and murder) results in people fighting back?

It is exactly because of the many people that REFUSE to recognize, acknowledge and condemn bad policing that helped create this chaos to begin with. It is exactly because of the many people that REFUSE to recognize, acknowledge and condemn bad policing that White victims are ignored while only Black victims are publicized, propagandized and weaponized -- leading people of all races to believe it's only a "Black" problem. It is exactly because of the many people that REFUSE to recognize, acknowledge and condemn the historic and continued political corruption that feeds the cycle of violence in the inner cities that it not only continues, but is perpetuated and escalated. It is exactly because of the people who REFUSE to recognize, acknowledge and condemn the environmental factors -- such as lead poisoning -- in the inner cities, that this cycle of violence and poverty and poor decisions thrives.

But you go ahead and keep talking trash about Tom's prescience, and I'll keep calling out ALL bad behavior.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 01:59 PM
link   
a reply to: spacedoubt

No. it's actually not.

But thanks for playing.

This is the false dichotomy.

The left looks at stats, and decides that if there is a disparity disfavoring blacks, it's racial animus from whites. But if you look at the stats and see they tell a different story as in this case, the left looks at the numbers and decides that it can't be a cultural flaw, but is instead ... wait for it ... racial animus from whites.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck



Originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
I grew up in the era of MoTown music and the 70s image of blacks, but it seems something went wrong in the late 70s and early 80s about the time Hip Hop and then Rap music emerged in the black culture.



originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I think it's pretty obvious what changed around that time. The War on Drugs. It disproportionately targeted young, black, men.

If your government is enacting policies designed to put your people in cages what motivation do you have to play by their rules?


I had always thought of the war on drugs as a big joke back then, a cover for the CIA operations. But you have an interesting and valid point, one that makes sense now that you've stated that, thanks.

Also Edumakated makes additionally good points as well and can tie in with my observations and your statement.



Originally posted by: Edumakated
The issues we see in the black community with crime are highly correlated with the War on Poverty in the 60s. Welfare programs kept fathers out of the home. This drove the out of wedlock birth rate in black community from around 24% to nearly 75% today. It is widely known that on average kids raised without fathers do worse on practically every metric. When you have three out of four black kids starting off disadvantaged from day 1, it isn't going to end pretty. Another unintended consequence of liberal Democrat policies. In large swaths of lower income black communities you literally have feral black teens who are being raised by the streets. Their own role models of hustlers.


I can concede that the war on drugs has not helped police relations in some communities. The militarization of police is not good.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:06 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

No we get it, the 15 unarmed blacks that were killed by polie last year, justifies these riots and marxist takeover of the country.

As long as you get your blood, right?

Let me know when you have seen enough deaths that you will feel the tree of liberty is refreshed.

Ironic we are now allowing the statutes of the very men who made those comments to be tore down in this "revolution"

Here are some facts for you.

Cops are necessary. There will always be bad interactions with cops.


Ok, so what, and bad cop action requires this sort of rioting and marxist revolution?

If you say yes, welcome to hell and anarchy ruled by marxists fascists.

If you say no, then what is the number of bad instances with police that require this sort of revolution led by racist who condemn people based on skin color, beat shop owners and sometimes kill them, and seek to end capitalism?

15?


Its a power grab from a bunch of fascists marxist who are racist, and its sad to see people like you cheer it on as necessary.

Do I cheer boogallo boys? Nope, i dont cheer for racial supremacists like you apparently do, so long as they are your type of racial supremacists.

im against rioting, i dont glorify it ever saying its refreshing the tree of liberty, thats what you have done.

I also was against the death of george floyd, and wanted the officer brought to justice, lik 99 percent of all people. But thats not good enough. Nope, tear down washingtons statiue, beat shop owners, demand repartions of white people, because this is all about vblack lives matter, and condemn anyone who actually shows the data who shows their narrative is a lie.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Be careful what you wish for.

Violent revolution? And what are these wonderful children going to give us?

Consider the NYT 1619 project which wants to teach everyone that the country *really* started when the black slaves were imported. It's not far from there to the belief that they built the whole country, so whites really stole every thing. That's an actual position some blacks hold, especially when you start getting into Black Israelites and Nation of Islam.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck



Originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
I grew up in the era of MoTown music and the 70s image of blacks, but it seems something went wrong in the late 70s and early 80s about the time Hip Hop and then Rap music emerged in the black culture.



originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I think it's pretty obvious what changed around that time. The War on Drugs. It disproportionately targeted young, black, men.

If your government is enacting policies designed to put your people in cages what motivation do you have to play by their rules?


I had always thought of the war on drugs as a big joke back then, a cover for the CIA operations. But you have an interesting and valid point, one that makes sense now that you've stated that, thanks.

Also Edumakated makes additionally good points as well and can tie in with my observations and your statement.



Originally posted by: Edumakated
The issues we see in the black community with crime are highly correlated with the War on Poverty in the 60s. Welfare programs kept fathers out of the home. This drove the out of wedlock birth rate in black community from around 24% to nearly 75% today. It is widely known that on average kids raised without fathers do worse on practically every metric. When you have three out of four black kids starting off disadvantaged from day 1, it isn't going to end pretty. Another unintended consequence of liberal Democrat policies. In large swaths of lower income black communities you literally have feral black teens who are being raised by the streets. Their own role models of hustlers.


I can concede that the war on drugs has not helped police relations in some communities. The militarization of police is not good.


Not it's not. And culture on all sides is part of the problem.

We have people who think drugs are toys to be used and dropped, but that doesn't happen for far too many which creates a need. Even legalizing it doesn't help. You still have addicts, and who supports them when they can't handle their addictions and remain productive?

That's a bit too far for the social welfare state to stretch. Back in the day, laudanum was legal, sure, but back in the day, no one lived on state assistance if you were an addict, either.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:18 PM
link   
a reply to: Grambler

Shall I call the wahmbulance for you??? Is there a house # on your river of denial???

You know damn well that I'm not glorifying or cheering anything on. I'm just quoting one of our Founding Fathers' warning to us... a very timely warning. But it sure makes you feel good about yourself to take my words out of context and accuse me of the worst so that you can puff your chest out a little more, eh?

Understanding and recognizing patterns of human behavior -- including the inevitability of an oppressed and abused people fighting back -- is not glorifying or cheering anything on.

Understanding and recognizing patterns of human behavior -- including that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely -- is not glorifying or cheering anything on.

Finally, the definition of insanity (and stupidity) is doing the same thing again and again and thinking you'll get a different outcome. What we've been doing HAS NOT WORKED. We need new answers... not the same old racist crap from BOTH sides.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Yes we do need new answers.

Glorifying or attempting to rationalize these riots as anything other than the corrupt power grab they are does nothing to help.

Making this about race and ignoring data that doesnt fit your narrative does nothing to help, and is how we have approached this for thirty years or more.

I propose we try the new strategy of having an honest conversation about race that doesnt start with the falsehood cops are hunting and killing socres of unarmed blacks because they are racist, but sadly we are farther from the point than ever, and all the while some people feel the need to tell us the important of spilling the blood of tyrants.

tell me, which one of the over dozen people killed since these riots started was the tyrant whose blood needed spilled?



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Be careful what you wish for.


Be careful of what you presume. Do you believe Thomas Jefferson was "wishing" for the tree of liberty to be refreshed with the blood of patriots or tyrants?

I don't believe that of Tom... and I sure as hell know that don't wish for any such thing.

But as I already noted, understanding and recognizing patterns of human nature and behavior is a thoughtful and practical approach to the human condition, and its issues.

What I do wish is that my words would be considered in context and that we had ALLOWED peaceful revolution when we had the opportunity, so that this violent revolution would not even be NECESSARY.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:24 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea


Finally, the definition of insanity (and stupidity) is doing the same thing again and again and thinking you'll get a different outcome. What we've been doing HAS NOT WORKED. We need new answers... not the same old racist crap from BOTH sides.


This is the only part of what you said I actually agree with.

The problem is that they demand. They explain how horrible we are to them. We give and give and give.

It never gets better.

So what are we giving this time, and how do you think this time, it will actually get better? Why will it actually change this time? Because so far, you're following the playbook of the insane.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Boadicea

Making this about race and ignoring data that doesnt fit your narrative does nothing to help, and is how we have approached this for thirty years or more.


So just stop. Right here and now. With me. I am the one refusing to address this in racial terms. I am the one saying that there is absolutely nothing inherent in Black people that is the problem. I'm the one saying that this is much bigger than race. I'm the one trying to bring other factors and causes and issues into the equation. And all you can do is keep accusing me of wanting blood spilled and glorifying and cheering on lawlessness.


I propose we try the new strategy of having an honest conversation about race that doesnt start with the falsehood cops are hunting and killing socres of unarmed blacks because they are racist...


And there it is again. I have never bought into that scenario. I have made very clear distinctions. I have pointed out many many times that it is a very small handful of law enforcement agencies that are out of control. I have very specifically pointed out the specific police training -- Killology and warrior-style training -- that puts a target on EVERYONE'S BACK. I have several times posted links to the police executions of Tony Timpa and Danny Shaver. I have pointed out the significant role police unions/federations have on bad policing.


...but sadly we are farther from the point than ever, and all the while some people feel the need to tell us the important of spilling the blood of tyrants.


No. That's an outright deliberate lie on your part. Neither I, nor anyone that I've seen, has told us the "importance" of spilling the blood of tyrants. I won't speak for anyone else. And I very clearly and distinctly said MANY TIMES that when peaceful revolution is made impossible, that violent revolution is made inevitable, THUS resulting in the tree of liberty needing to be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Why do you keep insisting on misrepresenting my words and my intentions???

How the hell are we supposed to have this "honest conversation" when you insist on misrepresenting my words and my motives???


tell me, which one of the over dozen people killed since these riots started was the tyrant whose blood needed spilled?


That's your freaking delusion -- not MINE -- so answer your own self.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: spacedoubt
a reply to: Scapegrace
Ok I think I got your points.
You aren’t blaming skin color, because if I get a tan I probably won’t commit more crime.

Seems like you could be blaming certain ethnicities?

So where does this come from?
Are some people excused from crime due to skin color and money,

Are others arrested and convicted at higher rates,
Or arrested and convicted at young ages, creating a rap sheet that looks great on a resume?

There are a lot of factors, some are very hidden that point to the American culture of institutionalized racism.
I don’t see how racism can account for so many blacks committing so many violent crimes. Do white people love Nigerians, Hispanics, Indians and Chinese? All have lower rates of crime than African Americans. Blaming it on racism is self-delusional and won’t help to solve the problem. I think African Americans have to solve it themselves, because we’ve already spent trillions to end poverty, and thereby crime, and it hasn’t worked worth a damn. It will require African Americans to do some soul searching. Hopefully, the percentage of unwed mothers will decline; that seems an obvious place to start. Whites also have problems, just not as bad as African Americans.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 02:57 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Yes it was a vey salient point for you to mention the quote of spilling the blood of tyrants about these riots killing innocent people and trying tp overthrow our country as wee know it.

Meanwhile despite the importance you and i may put on ourselves, the actual important believes are those rioting and those controlling them.

They are making this about race, hence the need to have anj honest conversation about race and the data behind it, like this op.

You coming in saying you dont care about race in reference to the OP is either irrelevant to why discussions about the data listed in the op is important to discuss in context with those supporting the riots, or its deflecting for them.

Either way, it fits right in with the establishment that is controlling this "revolution" and trying to silence anyone against the fascist marxist agenda of black lives matter.

Oh and eta, the first comment i responded to you about this whole thing was you defending colin kaeprinick, and saying because we didnt listen to him and have a peaceful revolution, violence became inevitable.

But hey kaepernick wasnt making this about race, right?

Lol! at least be honest with your race hustling.



edit on 22-6-2020 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 03:01 PM
link   
a reply to: Scapegrace

Thing is that it's not even African-American girls who have this problem as much as the boys.

But look at how society as a whole is structured right now. We have tailored schools to support girls because it didn't used to be that way. Now our schools have gone so far toward nurturing girls, that they are hostile to boys. Both black and white boys suffer in the school system (to say nothing of young boys from the other races - it's hostile to boys period). But because the schools are explicitly designed to support girls, African-American girls are more likely to come through the challenging environment of the inner city, make to college and make it through college rather than fail out.

Remember, because of the desirability of diversity on campuses right now, colleges are willing to overlook a great deal in the way of college readiness in order to fill their quotas.

None of that means that black students are not capable, only that they are unprepared, both due to factors in their public schools and factors in their home life.

Black boys who are often from fatherless homes and then put into school systems hostile to boys in general suffer the worst which sets them up for the criminality we see.

But no one talks about that because it lays a decent portion of the blame at the feet of black culture as much as it does any of the other popular factors.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 03:05 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko


This is the only part of what you said I actually agree with.


So you do think Tom was "wishing" for violent revolution in the future? Okay...


The problem is that they demand. They explain how horrible we are to them. We give and give and give. It never gets better. So what are we giving this time, and how do you think this time, it will actually get better? Why will it actually change this time?


I've listed a dozen factors that contribute to the problem and that need to change... no one has addressed even ONE of those factors. Not even ONE!!! Including you... How about you address any one of those things, rather than accusing me of "wishing" for violent revolution???


Because so far, you're following the playbook of the insane.


Bull#. I have listed other factors and causes. I'm not the one stuck competing in the "Black vs White" Victim Olympics.



posted on Jun, 22 2020 @ 03:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ketsuko



Bull#. I have listed other factors and causes. I'm not the one stuck competing in the "Black vs White" Victim Olympics.


Some quotes of yours in the past on this.


Race is always an issue because people always make race an issue. And it started with white people and continues with white people -- as well as black, brown and purple polka dot people. It doesn't have to be, but it sure as hell is.

...

It's the refusal to address the increasingly brazen use of lethal force that created this environment, predominantly against black men in too many communities.

...

Any LEO that has no respect or compassion for black lives has no respect or compassion for life at all. Any person who has no respect or compassion for black lives has no respect or compassion for life at all.


Weird.

You seemed to be very interested in race right up unto the point someone wanted to show data that showed why police may be having more violent interactuions with black people.

Then suddenly you claimed you dont care about race.

Almost like you are deflecting or something.

Surely not....



new topics

top topics



 
54
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join