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What's wrong with the God of the gaps that Darwinist like to say when losing a debate

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posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: Phantom423

Cooperton just destroyed your regurgitated nonsense so I will not rehash it.

I will say, you havn't provided a shred of evidence that self assembly can encode DNA sequence with information that tells amino acids how to form in a polypetide chain.

Also, how did self assembly encode information in DNA that regulates the expression of coding sequences?

How did self assembly encode the information to build machinery to decode this information?




posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic

Here's the difference. I post peer-reviewed research papers. You two post nothing by your own opinions which are based on crap. And that's a fact.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: rom12345

Here's the problem. Science isn't ruling out the possibility of a Supreme Intelligence, but it's not going to attribute things to it until it has proof such is the case. Wheras you want to take anything you don't have immediate proof or understanding of and attribute it to a Supreme Intelligence and then just stop there.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:04 PM
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intelligence is a word humans use, when they have a glimmer of the nature of truth. Let's hope they do not erroneously believe that they are the primary creative force of 'intelligence'.

The more science I see, the more impressed I am by the intricate nature of things.
edit on 0000006030763America/Chicago21 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: Phantom423

You blindly post from papers you don't understand like the one that talked about "strings of energy" in 11 dimensions.

Here's more:

Tell me how self assembly encoded information in the sequence of DNA that builds proteins that attach themselves to a Ribosome. These subunits then assemble together on a strand of mRNA. A long chain of amino acids emerges as the ribosome decodes the mRNA sequence into a polypeptide, or a new protein.

Tell me:

How did self assembly encode the sequences of DNA that build Protein subunits that are the right size, shap and come together at the right angles on Ribosomes to carry out functions during transcription/translation?



Here's a gif of a Ribosome.

The blue in this case is 30S subunit Proteins that attach themselves to the single brown ribosome in exactly the way needed and the right size and shape to carry out a task.

Again, how does a medium encode it's sequence with information to build the machinery subunits that's the right shape and size to attach to a Ribosome for transcription/translation?



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:12 PM
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The biggest problem, as always, is that "God" is completely undefined. It has no definition that doesn't inherently carry with it a nullifying paradox or contradiction, making it utterly useless as an explanation for anything (or everything).

Try it. Come up with one. Define God. See if you can do better than 7,000 years of religion and philosophy. I'd be curious to see what you come up with that could be a reasonable, useful explanation for something.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift
The biggest problem, as always, is that "God" is completely undefined. It has no definition that doesn't inherently carry with it a nullifying paradox or contradiction, making it utterly useless as an explanation for anything (or everything).

Try it. Come up with one. Define God. See if you can do better than 7,000 years of religion and philosophy. I'd be curious to see what you come up with that could be a reasonable, useful explanation for something.


You can only define God in terms of what he is not.
I would say that God as I understand, is the only thing to exists, as the substate and a cause of all properties to come in to existence, including the human phenomena of intelligence. The paradox of enumeration is an illusion.

Is this useful ?
For me perhaps only to ponder the infinite with good cheer.
edit on 0000006032463America/Chicago21 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic



RNA Folding Pathways and the Self-Assembly of Ribosomes
Sarah A Woodson 1
Affiliations expand
PMID: 21714483 PMCID: PMC4361232 DOI: 10.1021/ar2000474




Abstract
Many RNAs do not directly code proteins but are nonetheless indispensable to cellular function. These strands fold into intricate three-dimensional shapes that are essential structures in protein synthesis, splicing, and many other processes of gene regulation and expression. A variety of biophysical and biochemical methods are now showing, in real time, how ribosomal subunits and other ribonucleoprotein complexes assemble from their molecular components. Footprinting methods are particularly useful for studying the folding of long RNAs: they provide quantitative information about the conformational state of each residue and require little material. Data from footprinting complement the global information available from small-angle X-ray scattering or cryo-electron microscopy, as well as the dynamic information derived from single-molecule Förster resonance energy transfer (FRET) and NMR methods. In this Account, I discuss how we have used hydroxyl radical footprinting and other experimental methods to study pathways of RNA folding and 30S ribosome assembly. Hydroxyl radical footprinting probes the solvent accessibility of the RNA backbone at each residue in as little as 10 ms, providing detailed views of RNA folding pathways in real time. In conjunction with other methods such as solution scattering and single-molecule FRET, time-resolved footprinting of ribozymes showed that stable domains of RNA tertiary structure fold in less than 1 s. However, the free energy landscapes for RNA folding are rugged, and individual molecules kinetically partition into folding pathways that lead through metastable intermediates, stalling the folding or assembly process. Time-resolved footprinting was used to follow the formation of tertiary structure and protein interactions in the 16S ribosomal RNA (rRNA) during the assembly of 30S ribosomes. As previously observed in much simpler ribozymes, assembly occurs in stages, with individual molecules taking different routes to the final complex. Interactions occur concurrently in all domains of the 16S rRNA, and multistage protection of binding sites of individual proteins suggests that initial encounter complexes between the rRNA and ribosomal proteins are remodeled during assembly. Equilibrium footprinting experiments showed that one primary binding protein was sufficient to stabilize the tertiary structure of the entire 16S 5'-domain. The rich detail available from the footprinting data showed that the secondary assembly protein S16 suppresses non-native structures in the 16S 5'-domain. In doing so, S16 enables a conformational switch distant from its own binding site, which may play a role in establishing interactions with other domains of the 30S subunit. Together, the footprinting results show how protein-induced changes in RNA structure are communicated over long distances, ensuring cooperative assembly of even very large RNA-protein complexes such as the ribosome.


I don't expect you to read and understand the article. But it answers the question. Information is inherent to everything in the universe - particles, atoms, molecules, structures. The wave function of the universe is information. You just fail to understand what information really is. You think it's some gift from Buddha or some creature that no one can observe.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:26 PM
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God is the voice in peoples heads, that make them emerge from caves and build civilization.
The utility of which is yet to be revealed.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: Phantom423

Is this a joke?

You quote abstracts from papers you don't understand and you never explain how the paper answers the question LOL.

You must think people are stupid. It's obvious you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. Explain exactly how this paper shows how a medium can encode itself with inforfmation and build the machinery to decode that information.

Information can be found throughout the universe but information encoded on the sequence of a medium and also encodes the information to decode that information isn't.

So again, explain exactly how the paper you blindly posted shows how a medium can encode it's sequence with information then build the machinery to decode that information.

Waiting......



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:34 PM
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originally posted by: rom12345

originally posted by: Blue Shift
The biggest problem, as always, is that "God" is completely undefined. It has no definition that doesn't inherently carry with it a nullifying paradox or contradiction, making it utterly useless as an explanation for anything (or everything).

Try it. Come up with one. Define God. See if you can do better than 7,000 years of religion and philosophy. I'd be curious to see what you come up with that could be a reasonable, useful explanation for something.


You can only define God in terms of what he is not.
I would say that God as I understand, is the only thing to exists, as the substate and a cause of all properties to come in to existence, including the human phenomena of intelligence. The paradox of enumeration is an illusion.

But how is that much different than something like a Turning pattern that arises spontaneously from quantum fluctuations in the basic medium (reality, spacetime,what have you)? No motivation to create? No "love?". Nothing to worship or fear?

So in your way of thinking, God is the "lowest turtle?". The turtle at the bottom of the turtle stack? Interesting. Of course that's not what most religions think, but at least you're trying to think outside the box.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: a325nt

Tell me:

How did a series of random events encode sequence with information and also build the machinery to decode that sequence?

How did random events evolve parts that just happen to be the right size, shape and come together at the right angles to build things like molecular machines with 50 different parts?

This isn't about a gap in knowledge. Tell me how this is possible for randomness to achieve. Tell me how a medium can encode itself with information and build the machinery to decode this information without intelligence.

Waiting........



Interesting thread neoholographic, makes one pause and think.

Idk, how it could be possible.

Looking back I always suspected an intelligence at work, even if it felt incredibly vague.

I often got the impression while exploring this area with others in more materially-minded debates, that intelligence arose as the byproduct of natural evolutionary forces at work. Intelligence as a reflection of a particular form of order. Time being the medium for consciousness to evolve.

Imo, the more we are learning about the world around us the greater the suspicions that higher intelligence is at work on every scale. A more fractal perspective of the universe. Brings to mind timewave zero and the singularity.

In a material sense, I build things at work. If I carry on where something was left off, I can often walk into the area, study the work and continue by carrying on further over. With experience, it can become second nature.

Most often though, you study the prints and go from there. Intelligence preceding action in either case.






Good points and I agree!



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:40 PM
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originally posted by: rom12345
God is the voice in peoples heads, that make them emerge from caves and build civilization.
The utility of which is yet to be revealed.

The voice (voices from various personality fragments) is unfortunately my own. But it does work well with the idea that this reality and existence is literally nothing without me in it, and my death will end everything. So I guess I'm as good a God as anything.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

Thou art God.

Grok it, dude.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:46 PM
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I don't fear God, I fear physics. You can't pray your way out of blunt force trauma.
Physics was created by God for time to unfold.
But God it is not about physics, aka Super Natural.
that's why proof is not really a thing when it comes to spiritual matters.
consider love, or mathematics.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: neoholographic


You're supposed to read it, idiot.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: Phantom423

You sound like a nut.

First off I read it and it has nothing to do with this thread.

Secondly, I asked you to explain to illustrate my point that you're just blindly copyin and pasting. You said:

I don't expect you to read and understand the article. But it answers the question.

LOL, this shows you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. If it answered the question you would explain how it answers the question but you can't.

I understand your frustation. If I held an asanine view like a natural interpretation of evolution I would blindly post abstracts and explain nothing!




posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 03:55 PM
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There are experience that in my view prove categorically that the spectacular intricacies of the natural world, exists also in an 'etherial'/ information state.
Obviously the word Ineffable is all can really say.



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: rom12345

As opposed to infallible?



posted on Jun, 21 2020 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rom12345

As opposed to infallible?


Obvious entirely subjective.
I have observed the substrate of my subjectivity.
edit on 0000006040464America/Chicago21 by rom12345 because: (no reason given)



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