Careful....Police could go on a national strike.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
You folks do realize that police forces weren't a thing at all until the later half of the 19th century, right?

In fact, most of the parts of government we "can't live without" we've only had the last 100 years.

The more you know.

Early police in the United States
The United States inherited England’s Anglo-Saxon common law and its system of social obligation, sheriffs, constables, watchmen, and stipendiary justice. As both societies became less rural and agrarian and more urban and industrialized, crime, riots, and other public disturbances became more common. Yet Americans, like the English, were wary of creating standing police forces. Among the first public police forces established in colonial North America were the watchmen organized in Boston in 1631 and in New Amsterdam (later New York City) in 1647. Although watchmen were paid a fee in both Boston and New York, most officers in colonial America did not receive a salary but were paid by private citizens, as were their English counterparts.
www.britannica.com...

You are like 200 years off amigo
Considering the the U.S. did not declare itself independent till 1776 that means there were Police before there was a Country.
The More you know indeed.

a reply to: Punisher75

Well, maybe ... but again.

The development of policing in the United States closely followed the development of policing in England. In the early colonies policing took two forms. It was both informal and communal, which is referred to as the "Watch," or private-for-profit policing, which is called "The Big Stick” (Spitzer, 1979).

The watch system was composed of community volunteers whose primary duty was to warn of impending danger. Boston created a night watch in 1636, New York in 1658 and Philadelphia in 1700. The night watch was not a particularly effective crime control device. Watchmen often slept or drank on duty. While the watch was theoretically voluntary, many "volunteers" were simply attempting to evade military service, were conscript forced into service by their town, or were performing watch duties as a form of punishment. Philadelphia created the first day watch in 1833 and New York instituted a day watch in 1844 as a supplement to its new municipal police force (Gaines, Kappeler, and Vaughn 1999).

Source

So your references are actually more like our modern "security guards" than police. Also ...

These informal modalities of policing continued well after the American Revolution. It was not until the 1830s that the idea of a centralized municipal police department first emerged in the United States. In 1838, the city of Boston established the first American police force, followed by New York City in 1845, Albany, NY and Chicago in 1851, New Orleans and Cincinnati in 1853, Philadelphia in 1855, and Newark, NJ and Baltimore in 1857 (Harring 1983, Lundman 1980; Lynch 1984). By the 1880s all major U.S. cities had municipal police forces in place.

The bolded portion is what I remembered reading. Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I wasn't aware it was a matter of contention. Thanks for your citations though. It's actually fascinating.

So your references are actually more like our modern "security guards" than police.

Not exactly remember this is prior to the War of Independence.
England was far away, and not prone to sending police across the atlantic to police around 500 people. in Boston en.wikipedia.org...

While they they did not recieve a salary they were still vested with court authority. The stipend was given to them for service rendered.
How much salery can you really pay someone with a population of only 500 to Tax?
New Amsterdam? 700 souls give or take.

If they felt like they needed police with a Populaton of less that a thousand, how much more do you suppose it is needed with populations of 700,000 in Boston and 8 Million in New York?

a reply to: Punisher75

Your article references "the Watch" ... which is certainly paid security, usually maintained by the wealthy (as further described in my reference). These people were not in any way officers of any Court. In fact, they were often assigned to the Watch as punishment. (The Constables were paid to serve warrants).

You chose to focus on 1630 in your second article was the approximately the year the colony was FOUNDED. In ten years (as shown again by your second reference) the population of Boston was nearly 9000.

What's that? An average increase of 850 souls each year?

My point was that Americans or perhaps I should say MOST Americans lived without municipal police forces for almost 100 years. (into the 1880s)

The last part of your argument is ... pretty incredible. You're basically claiming that the needs for police in 1630's Boston should inform our understanding of modern law enforcement needs in 2020?

That's a leap that I'm not sure is backed up by what you've shown so far ... but you are at least developing an argument based on evidence, which if I may say so, is a wonderful departure from the norm. Thanks.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
You folks do realize that police forces weren't a thing at all until the later half of the 19th century, right?

In fact, most of the parts of government we "can't live without" we've only had the last 100 years.

The more you know.

Hells Yea, Bring on the wild wild west! I'm your huckleberry.

a reply to: network dude

Okay Doc.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
You folks do realize that police forces weren't a thing at all until the later half of the 19th century, right?

In fact, most of the parts of government we "can't live without" we've only had the last 100 years.

The more you know.

See, now and then, you really impress me.

a reply to: Punisher75

You are conflating mercenaries with actual city-organized, tax-payer supported police forces. Two totally different things amigo.

time.com...

In fact the UKs first police force wasn't until 1822.

Why strike when you can retire or resign en masse...

originally posted by: Ahabstar
Why strike when you can retire or resign en masse...

As Romantic as that looks, most Officers love their jobs...

a reply to: Gryphon66

en.wikipedia.org... police have been a thing since BC times in various flavors through out antiquity

Duties The gangs of Titus Annius Milo, Publius Clodius and others which were used by rival politicians during the Republic had been eliminated mostly due to the efforts of Pompeius Magnus. Although political gangs were a thing of the past since effective power no longer resided in the competing factions of the Roman Senate and elected officials, some kind of police force was necessary to maintain public order and prevent civil disturbances. To fulfill this purpose Augustus established three urban cohorts (cohortes urbanae) under a newly appointed prefect of the city.[1] Their primary role was to police Rome and counteract roaming mobs and gangs that often haunted its streets during the Republic. The urban cohorts thus acted as a heavy duty police force, capable of riot control duties, while their contemporaries, the Vigiles, policed the streets and fought fires. As a trained paramilitary organization, the urban cohorts could, on rare occasions, go to battle if necessary. This role, however, was only called upon in dire situations. Unlike the Vigiles, who mostly operated at night as firefighters and watchmen, members of the urban cohorts were considered legionaries, though with higher pay than the regular legions—if not quite as much as the Praetorian Guards—and tended to receive slightly higher donatives though, again, not as much as the Praetorians.[2]

so not quite a match for our modern police but close enough they operated from 753 bc-ad 476 of note the major italian cities had mostly italian "cops" and the far away places used mostly locals to police their own

en.wikipedia.org... china did it differently and if we did it this way now i bet people would be even more mad

Historical background However much the public security system may have been influenced by communist ideology and practice, it remained rooted directly in the traditional Chinese concept of governmental control through imposed collective responsibility. Even in the pre-imperial era, a system was proposed to organize the people into "groups of families which would be mutually responsible for each other's good behavior and share each other's punishments." The Qin (221-207 BCE) and Han (206 BCE-CE 220) dynasties made use of the concept, and the Song dynasty (960-1279) institutionalized it on a nationwide basis in the bao jia (tithing) system. It entailed the organization of family households into groups of ten, each unit being organized successively into a larger unit up to the county level of administration. Each family sent a representative to the monthly meeting of its unit, and each unit elected a leader to represent it at the next higher level. Since the head of each unit was responsible to the next higher level for the conduct of all members of his unit, the system served as an extension of the central government. Eventually, each group of families also was required to furnish men to serve in the militia. Bao jia, which alternately flourished or languished under later rulers and usually existed more in theory than in practice, was reinstituted during the Qing dynasty (1644–1911).

i wonder how different policing would be if the locals were responsible for the failures of their community and had to share in punishments for wrong doing?

www.hurstpublishers.com... this link cites a book on the history of policing in africa an often over looked area of police history least per the source but you would have to buy the book to find out

en.wikipedia.org... general link on police in general but ill focus on the maya

Pre-Colombian Mesoamarican civilizations also had organized law enforcement. The city-states of the Maya civilization had constables known as tupils, as well as bailiffs.[24] In the Aztec Empire, judges had officers serving under them who were empowered to perform arrests, even of dignitaries.[25] In the Inca Empire, inspectors known as tokoyrikoq (lit. "he who sees all") were stationed throughout the provinces to keep order.[26]

link covers all areas of the globe though and goes on to talk about the concept of modern policing started in france at around the 1600s but in most of the ye olden times they oddly were more militarized then our current police as often they had to share militia duties

If you live in a busy town or city, go pick up a copy of the daily police log.

How long do you think your town would last if there were no one around to do the hundreds of incidents and calls on that log?

Then, go pick up a state police log, and take a guess on how long your state would be able to hold on until there was complete anarchy in the streets.

The stupidity for de-funding police is worse than the mentality involved in destructive rioting and looting.

As far as I am concerned, they do not get paid enough for what they have to put up with, especially now.

Instead of de-funding them, they should get a raise.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

They love the job but hate the #-# games. And yes that is a military term.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Truth. I actually had a poster arguing with me yesterday that, in the middle of a life or death altercation, cops should be considering the political ramifications of their actions. Someone actually said that to me, and was 100% serious about it.

It's crazy how so many people can become this naive.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

originally posted by: Gryphon66
You folks do realize that police forces weren't a thing at all until the later half of the 19th century, right?

In fact, most of the parts of government we "can't live without" we've only had the last 100 years.

The more you know.

See, now and then, you really impress me.

Well , you know in a Perfect World , the Lawyers would go on Strike . I could Live with that .

In that case, I'm going to live off the grid for a while. With plenty of food/water stock up.

www.zerohedge.com...

"Every department, every officer you talk to is looking to leave," Maj. Travis Yates told Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight," adding that he is "extremely concerned" for the future of law enforcement.

Yates told Carlson that held felt morale among law enforcement officers "was really low" following the 2014 shooting of Michael Brown by then-Ferguson, Mo. police officer Darren Wilson.

"As everybody knows, President Obama's administration found no evidence of wrongdoing in Ferguson even though the narrative is quite different ...," he said. "We were making a resurgence in recent years and this [George Floyd's death and the aftermath] has been devastating. This has been Ferguson times 1,000. Every department, every officer you talk to is looking to leave." -Fox News

www.lawofficer.com...

The mentally ill used to get treatment and now they just send cops. Kids used to be taught respect and now it’s cool to be disrespectful.

Supervisors used to back you when you were right but now they accuse you of being wrong in order to appease crazy people.

Parents used to get mad at their kids for getting arrested and now they get mad at us.

The media used to highlight the positive contribution our profession gave to society and now they either ignore it or twist the truth for controversy to line their own pockets.

There used to be a common respect among criminals. If they got caught, they understood you had a job to do but now it’s our fault they sit in handcuffs rather than their own personal decisions.

If someone attacked a cop, they were seen as such. Now we martyr them and sue for millions.

We used to be able to testify in court and we were believed. Now, unless there is video from three different angles, no one cares what you have to say.

With all this talk about racism and racist cops, I’ve never seen people treated differently because of their race. And while I know that cowards that have never done this job will call me racist for saying it, all I’ve ever seen was criminal behavior and cops trying to stop it and they didn’t give a rip what their skin color was.

www.foxnews.com...

Atlanta cops had no reason to use deadly force.It was a drunk guy running away from them, not some serial killer ffs. They could of caught him another day or when he comes to claim his car out of impound.

How police are trained in the US needs overhauled big time. I think every new officer should go the first two or three years on the job without carrying a sidearm. That would teach them how to handle issues without the use of deadly force. We don't see UK cops shooting unarmed people left and right.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

That is their problem.

Where i live the cops are pretty easy to get along with so long as you dont speed....we have tens of thousands of deer and they take their safety pretty seriously.

City folks and their problems are for them to figure out

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What about the other critters...do they take their own safety pretty seriously too, or only the deers?