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Atlanta Police Chief resigns after Black Man shot

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posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Granby

Cool. Let me try to break this down one more time.

Yes, the DA said they’re non lethal. That’s one DA. That’s not “the state of Georgia classifies them as non lethal.” That’s the claim you made. That’s what I’m asking you to source. I’m not asking you to source the DA saying they’re non lethal. I know he said that. Which is why I find it curious that he says they’re non lethal in this case, but charged cops with aggravated assault for using tasers. Aggravated assault requires the use of a deadly weapon or an object likely to cause serious bodily injury.

So to summarize: you claim tasers are classified as non lethal in Georgia. Source that. Don’t source it by giving me a DA that says they’re non lethal in one case and lethal in another case, because he doesn’t classify weapons in Georgia, which is what your claim is.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Edumakated
It isn't the movies


This is the single biggest thing folks need to get through their head in order to understand these incidents.

The naivety is astounding.


Cops are highly trained individuals and are trained specifically in crisis situations and the use of deadly force.

This argument fails on that fact.


Training is not the real world... when the sh*t goes down it is entirely different. Higher adrenaline. Nothing is exactly like the manual.


So training is useless then?

BS. Part of the justification for giving peace officers the right to use lethal force and qualified immunity is that they are highly trained experts. You can't justify poor judgement because these officers were placed in a situation that they exist to control and resolve.


Not it isn't useless but it also doesn't reflect the real world. Officers have to deal with fluid situations that cannot be replicated 100% in a training manual.

While it not entirely related, the scene from Sully explains how the real world is different. THE HUMAN FACTOR.



You incorporate a clip from a movie in a claim that I'm fallaciously arguing like this situation was in a movie?

Oookay.

You don't define what the real world is. You are not an expert on suspect restraint and takedown (neither am I). At this point, as I've said, the matter will be adjudicated in court.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: Granby

I hear you. Fallacious arguments are frustrating.

As I said, at this point, we can argue the obvious facts all day long. The matter will be taken up by the court system, and that will be the conclusion. Not any opinion being put forth here.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Wake forest did a study that showed a 99-ish% non-lethality rate for taser usage. I don’t know when that study was done or what their methodology was.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Gryphon66

Wake forest did a study that showed a 99-ish% non-lethality rate for taser usage. I don’t know when that study was done or what their methodology was.


That squares up with what I'd found; thanks for adding your confirmation.




posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Tasers are non-lethal. Anything can kill someone on rare occasion. I'd say a taser will typically only kill when you have a condition that makes it lethal.

Of course, for the purposes of the public and whatnot, that doesn't mean they should be used frequently. Policing is still a customer service job, even if no one sees it that way.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I've referred to LEOs several times here as "peace officers" which is sadly archaic.

Weren't most PDs mottos "To protect and serve" when we were kids?



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

DA is not a good enough source for you
hahahahaahah

ok



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

That was the motto. I think its always been misplaced in fact, but a great concept to aspire to.

The thing is that no one should ever outsource their protection. Sure, you can try. But it will fail, and it will ultimately be your responsibility.

The role of investigator and code enforcer seems to be good enough to allow society to continue. This crap with high speed pursuits, though...risking the lives of hundreds to catch someone who would eventually run out of fuel anyway? So i guess even code enforcement needs to be revisited.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I've come to the same conclusions.

I argued in my teen-aged years that everyone should be REQUIRED to carry a side-arm, LOL.

If the last few months have taught me anything it is that we must be self-sufficient and self-reliant as much as possible.

We cannot depend on the government for any rationanl decisions or support from here on out (if we ever could.)



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: Granby

A DA isn’t the state of Georgia. Especially not a DA that claims one device is lethal and non lethal at the same time.

You can’t source your claim that the state of Georgia classifies them as non lethal. That’s fine, all you had to say.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Tell that to Axon. They seem to think their product is less lethal.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: Granby
a reply to: Shamrock6

DA is not a good enough source for you
hahahahaahah

ok


A DA in a single district has no influence over the happenings in state court.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 11:25 AM
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The difference between non-lethal and less-lethal is around 1%.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I mean...honestly...its all a semantic play on words. They'd probably create less confusion giving it a numbering system for lethality (words would be 0, a gun is 10, everything else is in between).

But even then, misuse make less lethal solutions deadly. a rubber bullet will still kill if not bounced off the ground when fired. Even a paintball gun can kill.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

With sufficient strength, I'm sure a taser could effect death if shoved into an eye socket.

Taser Lethality 1

Taser Melee Lethality 95

Yeah. I know. The conversation is apparently going to have to center around why it's wrong to kill anyone at any time unless it's necessary to protect life and or property.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

With sufficient strength, I'm sure a taser could effect death if shoved into an eye socket.

Taser Lethality 1

Taser Melee Lethality 95

Yeah. I know. The conversation is apparently going to have to center around why it's wrong to kill anyone at any time unless it's necessary to protect life and or property.


Ok lets shock you with a taser for 30 minutes see if you are still alive after to see if its non lethal hmm?
(im kiddin btw) People with pace makers,can die from taser shocks,or underlying conditons.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: SKEPTEK
Justified shooting.

You'd have to be a complete and total clown to think, shooting a criminal that had resisted arrest, assaulted police, stole a police taser, and shot the taser at the cop, it wasn't justified.

100% agree with this statement.

I would hope my kids are smarter than that guy.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

Would you? I usually have to pay for that ... (j/k)

Yes, that's why the lethality is 1 instead of 0.

There are very rare instances in which being hit with a taser could be fatal. Estimates around 1% of the time.



posted on Jun, 16 2020 @ 01:45 PM
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This is some serious mental gymnastic for the CCP team.

No you cannot have it both ways.

It is a POTENTIALLY Lethal weapon and that is all there ever will be to say about it.

Stealing a weapon from an officer and pointing it back at him is called "Suicide by Cop" by quite probably 99.9% of us.



originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
If the cop tased him and he died the argument would be it wasn’t use of lethal force. The moment it was pointed at the officers it was considered lethal. Can have both. The officer had reasonable cause to cuff him while he was sleeping but was lazy. If you here him he said he didn’t want to deal with it so he called another officer. That one could have arrested him while he was seated. He screwed with him and made him do stupid human tricks to get him to provide information against himself. The taser wasn’t lethal for either in that instance. The cop nor the suspect.

Poor training. Poor character. Racists? No. Cops like power. They are the law, or so they always say. They hide behind a veil of invincibility and they become lazy assholes with god complexes. More need to be charged. More need to quit never to return. Many things need to be done to change the culture within law enforcement.

The guy was stupid enough to die. The cop that shot should be charged and the one that was lazy should be fired.







 
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