Are We Punishing People the wrong way.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: spacedoubt
Judging by interviews I’ve heard, read.
Blacks are much less likely to call the police.

And cultural viewpoints like "no snitchin'" and "snitches get stitches" has nothing to do with that?

I expected someone to bring that up.
I do think they are somewhat related.
Snitches don’t do well in high crime areas.

But poor people can have a fender bender in rich neighborhoods, on their way to work.
Who is more likely to fear a police encounter?

a reply to: JAGStorm

Apologies for going on a sidetrack there.

I think there would be big issues with shaming in a non homogenous society.
Who shames who? And if you have money can you purchase a get out of shame card?

On the other hand we already do it a little bit here.
We publish lists of names of people that have not paid their property taxes. (Do they do that in all states?)

We also publish mugshots of arrested people.
Even if you are found not guilty, that mugshot is still out there.

originally posted by: spacedoubt
But poor people can have a fender bender in rich neighborhoods, on their way to work.
Who is more likely to fear a police encounter?

The poor person, because this is entirely a class issue. If you can't pay to play, you're hosed.

I've been hate crimed several times throughout my life. By people of ALL colors. Its been hard for me to deal with. But you know what? I'm not calling for people to be shut up, or have laws enacted because of it. I've found that most of the people who start off with name calling usually do so from a distance. So, cowards. And TBH most of them dont want what would come down on them if they got close and said and did the same things to me. To the OP, there are some places that still practice public shaming, usually in small towns. I've also thought in extreme cases of murder, rape where the victim has been found guilty and doesnt dispute his/her crimes...heck if a family member is up to it and agrees to it, hell yeah let them loose in the same room as the perp and let it happen. Blanket eye for an eye is to far....especially when you consider how civil and how far we've progressed as humans(sarc).

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: spacedoubt
But poor people can have a fender bender in rich neighborhoods, on their way to work.
Who is more likely to fear a police encounter?

The poor person, because this is entirely a class issue. If you can't pay to play, you're hosed.

Forgive the expression, but that view is extremely black and white.
It’s not just a class issue, that’s why people are protesting.
The system is rigged alright, and it’s worse for some racial groups than others.

a reply to: JAGStorm


Hmm..... Be Careful . Do Not Shame Lest Ye Be Shamed .............

originally posted by: JAGStorm

Maybe we need to go back to an eye for an eye.

You may be correct.
But why did we ever stop?

I'm assuming someone has already mentioned the world going blind.

But... That requires 50% of people being victims of eye theft and 50% perpetrators of eye theft.

A world like that should be punished with blindness, or at the very least a lack of depth perception.

I think removing "eye for eye law" allows people to do criminal acts without fear of equal retribution.

But with "eye for eye law" you can also take 3 eyes and come out on top.

I've got no answers but it's an interesting question.

I can only add that spitting on cops in many US sates if you're HIV-positive can land you in prison for 35 years or more:
www.vox.com...
I think there's still people languishing in prisons from the ACT-UP protests in the 1990's.

In Western Australia over 300 people have been forced to take HIV tests after spitting on police and paramedics.
www.sbs.com.au...

I'm HIV-poz and while I think spitting at people is disgusting (doesn't exactly do much to fight stigma), but clearly it has never led to any HIV transmission, and the law hasn't had much interest in updating with the science.

However, now with Covid-19?
In South Africa tobacco and smoking paraphernalia sales are still banned since the lock-down began on the 26 March, partially due to the spit on potentially shared cigarettes (although many people think that is outrageous overkill, since people never shared cigarettes before the current black market made then ridiculously expensive). There no specific law against spitting but there certainly is against knowingly exposing another person to Covid-19.
I believe some Chinese cities already began fining spitting in the streets with the first SARS outbreak in 2003.

Well, I'm just saying, know the law before you do something stupid.

a reply to: halfoldman
Are they purely testing for HIV, or are they testing for a whole bunch of stuff... Including HIV?

If it's purely HIV then that's just silly.

But if I'm being tested for 100 other things you may as well chuck it on the list.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
I think in the US they probably knew the person had HIV because it was notifiable before the time (I guess), or maybe they were open activists.

Oops my original link from Australia has suddenly gone "lost in space" (so it says, it was fine just now).

But in 2016, the furor was specifically about HIV, although the article also mentions "diseases", but they don't specify any others. www.hivjustice.net... -remain/

I'm from South Africa, so maybe somebody from the US or Australia could have more information, but it seems to vary state by state.

But there's a lot of these strange local laws "about non-disclosure" used for all kinds injustices in the US where HIV positive people ended in prison (in one case for inadvertently biting a man's finger during a scuffle), and to my knowledge they still haven't been updated since the 1980's.

I've heard of similar cases of people being deliberately exposed to Hepatitis C, for example, but only HIV seems to be prosecuted even where no transmission occurred.

a reply to: halfoldman
I think I understand, it's not really malice but a holdover from when Karl Malone's views on HIV were accepted.

this 'eye for an eye' talk could be valuable, what are we going to do to the vicious plunderers at the top of our society dismantling our public institutions to their own gain, profiting off the labour and misery of the working class, taking over and gutting respected businesses to make off with the insurance money, destroying the environment and outsourcing jobs just to get extra $$$$? what's the eye for an eye there?

JAGStorm

Why do you think that Asians are called the "model minority".
It is not so much the act of shaming, as much as the FEAR of shaming.

First of all, sorry that i made assumptions about your character. I know next to nothing about you. You can be very nice and polite person, i don't know that but that is a possibility and i verbally vomited my frustrations straight into your face. I promise to avoid that in the future.

Asians, called model minority? Never heard that but i believe if you say that it is common knowledge. What have they given to us? Global Plandemic (the L was not a typo). Bad location for a nuclear plant which pollutes the water right now as i write this post. And anime. Hands down hate crimes all of them.

When it comes straight down to it, we fear our parents.
We respect our elders. We respect authority.

Fear our parents? What parents? Everyone is not like everyone else. Elders? Of course, total respect. They have built my homeland. And made more children who are now adults and building my country. Respect authority... well if something depends, then that really depends. If there is a lunatic with a weapon collection falling into psychosis, and cops arrive with full force, then of course, they have my respect. And they also have my respect because every day or night when they are on duty, they face human beings at the worst point of their life. They are strong men and women. But if i smoke some kind of a legally wrong kind of cigarette and authority gives me trouble due to that, then they can stuff their authority into their nazi throats and suffocate.

EDITING: now i remembered, that in some thread you told that you are Asian. I might remember wrong, though. I kindly ask you not to play the "racism card" against me. That would be a cheap shot and easy way out. You are able to be better than that. I am NOT a racist.

I have two statements. Neither of them are mine. They are some kind of big thinkers, philosophers, statesmen or something. Google would tell me but not in a google mood now.

"An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind"

But... when there is the final struggle, final fight.... how many have we here on earth? 7 billion about?

everyone is blind except two persons. And a fight ensues. They both can't smash both eyes of each other.

"In the world of the blind, one-eyed man or woman is the king or queen"

I don't know what to call this, but i will not call this as respect towards human rights, and i will not call this justice.

a reply to: JAGStorm

A swift, measured response would be nice. A life for a life is fair, but we must have due process

a reply to: Finspiracy

Asians, called model minority? Never heard that but i believe if you say that it is common knowledge. What have they given to us? Global Plandemic

We do not know this as of fact. Just like the Spanish Flu didn't start in Spain. (it actually started in Asia!) We may not know for many many years where Covid-19 actually originated from. A lab in the US, a lab in China or truly a thing of nature. If it did start in China, do ALL Asians get blamed? I think not. Do we blame all of Europe for Hitler? Of course not.
I don't even thing Chinese people as a whole are bad. I don't like their government. But just like us, they just want to live and have a happy life.

I digress.

Fear our parents?

YES. I am old enough to remember when the VAST majority of people were able to get and receive spanking and punishment the world seemed like a better place. We were also told if you don't have something nice to say don't say it. The reverse seems true now. Discipline is pretty much illegal now, and everyone speaks their mind even if it is pure trash that is spewed. I remember the last thing on earth I wanted to do was embarrass myself or my parents.

JAGstorm

"We do not know this as of fact. Just like the Spanish Flu didn't start in Spain. (it actually started in Asia!) We may not know for many many years where Covid-19 actually originated from. A lab in the US, a lab in China or truly a thing of nature. If it did start in China, do ALL Asians get blamed? I think not. Do we blame all of Europe for Hitler? Of course not.
I don't even thing Chinese people as a whole are bad. I don't like their government. But just like us, they just want to live and have a happy life.

I digress."

Yes i understand. Maybe i should have been more gentle and not so straightforward.

Spanish flue i don't know much about, but i know that there might have been some kind of war and Spain was not involved. So they gave honest statistics. And Spain got blame for it, honesty does that sometimes.

If it did start in China, do ALL Asians get blamed?

(covid)

Of course not! If i gave you that impression then you have my sincere apologies. Asians are Asians. Just as me as a white male. And Ahmed from the next building. And the dark-skinned young man who is now cleaning the floors at a grocery store i often go to. What is skin color anyway? A short strain of DNA. If someone tells me someone is white... or black... or one of those rare species with pink and yellow neon colors striped on the face. I need to interact with the person for a while and then i will make my evaluation. NOT judgment, i am not in a position to judge and i would dislike if someone judged me.

Why the defensive passive-aggressive approach towards my writings? I can spot two reasons. I unintentionally hurt you, or then you are insecure for being a minority member. To be honest, i don't know which one is worse.

And lastly, blame Hitler for Europe all you want. I was not even born when Hitler died. I have no dog in this race.