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Financial Reparations Should Be Off the Table if ALL U.S. Slavery Reminders Must Be Removed.

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posted on Jun, 14 2020 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

Hey dawnstar,

You are right about the 3/5ths compromise. It was for slave states to boost their numbers for representation.

My point is they couldn't bring themselves to consider them "whole" humans, and not only that it was constitutionally ratified - Article 1 Sec 2 clause 3.

I agree with you on women rights too. That said as you probably are aware based on your historical knowledge, there was an actual backlash by many women groups, typically religious in nature, that argued based on the old testament
women needed to stay in their place.

It's hard to find evidence of slaves arguing amongst themselves that they should continue to be slaves.

I agree it is about wanting to do right. Paying reparations will not solve the problems we are facing today.

It can change how people feel about their place in this country. Perhaps it would start to heal some wounds.

The reality is the conversation will never end. If we pay some will be happy, some will want more, some will be furious etc.

I am willing to adjust my thinking on the subject as I get a little deeper into some actual reparations proposals.

I don't know what the right answer is.




posted on Jun, 14 2020 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: ColoradoJens

It was the slave owning states that wanted them counted as whole persons since that would have given them more power in the federal govt and thus strengthen the institution of slavery. It was the abolitionists that didnt want them counted at all because they didnt want the slave holders increasing their representation. The 3/5 bit was their compromise. Of the two groups, who do you think it was that really couldnt view those slaves as human?
And, it's not that hard to find cases where slaves remained in the service of their masters even after they found out they were free. Which led to a whole other story of corrupt abuse and mistreatment.
Wonder what kind of reparations the native tribes would want? I remember when I was living in NY i think it was the Seneca tribe that was in court wanting some of their land back.... it consisted of an entire city if I am remembering right.
When our forefathers decided that having slaves was a great idea, they accepted responsibility for those slaves. That responsibility didnt end with a proclamation of their freedom generations later. They had the responsibility to make a place within our society for them, to prepare them to survive in that society, to accept them as equals within it. And, we have been steadily working to fulfill that responsibility. As I see it, we have done a pretty good job.
Sure there is room for improvements, there will always be room for improvements. But, that was what was owed to them, a place of equality in our society.... not paper tokens of value that would become closer to worthless with each dollar handed to them.



posted on Jun, 14 2020 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

I am not arguing which group was responsible for the 3/5ths compromise. It was ratified into the constitution so it's pretty obvious no one at the time was really happy about including them as actual people.

Sure there were what came to be know as Uncle Toms, no dispute there. There are always some that will fight against their own well being. Im talking organized movements by their own to fight against laws for themselves.

Anti-Suffragettes

The Native Americans have been and continue today for the most part to get screwed. But there is at least an acknowledgement of payment for using their land. Of course that is not fair and won't compensate for the fact they were systematically destroyed.




Contrary to popular belief, Indians do not receive payments from the federal government simply because they have Indian blood. Funds distributed to a person of Indian descent may represent mineral lease income on property that is held in trust by the United States or compensation for lands taken in connection with governmental projects. Some Indian tribes receive benefits from the federal government in fulfillment of treaty obligations or for the extraction of tribal natural resources — a percentage of which may be distributed as per capita among the tribe’s membership. Read more about NARF’s work to hold governments accountable>>


I agree with you regarding all of our responsibilities to continue to grow, acknowledge the things we have done in the name of progress and understand changes are constantly happening.

Like I said before the history of reparations in this country is varied and not consistent. But it is a thing.

I don't know ultimately how it could be done fairly in this case.

I appreciate the convo.

edit on 14-6-2020 by ColoradoJens because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2020 @ 04:36 AM
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Well if this isn't the perfect example of the overt racism and ignorance on this board I don't know what is.

Utterly ridiculous post.



posted on Jun, 15 2020 @ 05:45 AM
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I think we need to acquaint everyone with the legal term that covers this problem. Statue of Limitations.

Yes slavery was bad. And so was the racial discrimination that followed. But slavery went away in 1865. And we have been fighting racial discrimination for decades.

So to put most of this issue to bed all I can say is that it's simply too late for any reparations. Who would pay whom? The perpetrators and victims are mostly dead at this point.

And the crime of corruption of blood is limited by the Constitution to the lifetime of the offender. Simply put you can't go after the descendants of a criminal for what they did.

So the issues of reparations is moot. Stop beating a dead horse.



posted on Jun, 15 2020 @ 05:56 AM
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originally posted by: Gnawledge
You call it erasing history - it is not erasing history. It is erasing monuments to a horrible history. The history still exists and is easy to read or simply ask about.


And in that light, any statue has the potential to upset someone, so remove them all.



posted on Jun, 15 2020 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: dougie6665

Sup dougiefresh?

Were you saying something about an entire race of people?

Let me guess. You are a multi millionaire.


Yes, I have done well for myself. Was I intending to be racist, no. I was pointing out that the most likely result of giving every black family in the U.S. say $1M tax free is they will spend it. That will also be true of most White families. To the extent that the repatriation recipients spend it well, good for them. Hopefully they will win the game. My point is, it isn't likely. Unless that family educates themselves, invests it wisely and this country gets past systemic racism, it won't help.

What will end racism in the U.S.
1. Education - The black population needs to become educated on par with everyone else. That can be hopefully accomplished by providing every black student that completes high school with a 3.0 or better GPA free college tuition room and board at the flagship universities within their states. If they graduate high school 2.0 or better, free junior college or trade school that can be converted to 4 year college with 3.0 or better at the JUCO level.
2. Responsibility - The black population needs to take responsibility for their actions. Responsibility for >50% of the murders in this country etc. That has to stop. Providing an educational route is just a start. Using it and taking responsibility to do the right thing are another step.
3. Respect - The White population needs to give the respect they deserve to succeed. That means deep education and training, political change etc. to remove systemic racism.

Now, back to this reparation thing. I was a bit tongue in cheek regarding yea just print the money they will spend it anyway. For people that don't have money, it is the natural inclination. I grew up poor, made a lot, spent it all, then I made a lot more and saved that. It was a learning process that I had to work hard at. Its going to be difficult to do for someone that that doesn't grasp that $1 million is not retirement money, it is a nest egg to be spent wisely, invested wisely and nurtured. I had the means to replenish it. For someone that does not, this is not a simple thing.

Finally, the political ideology in place now that was started by James Calhoun in the early 1820s and revived by the Koch brothers is designed to specifically oppress the have nots. Its particularly harsh on Black's. Most White people that espouse these tea party, libertarian etc. views don't even understand why they do. There was an economist James Buchanan who set out to brain wash you 'all and he did a great job of it. The Koch brothers funded him and expanded the agenda. But it simply harkens back to the days of slavery. It resonates with a lot of people because the concept is to keep what you earn from the government and effectively don't help our fellow human beings.

Anyway, I hope you get I am not a jerk. I was merely pointing out that the giving of a large reparation payment is not going to have the intended consequence. A lot of things have to go with it to make it work. But, if the intent is simply to give it away without putting all the other issues in place, fine, do it, I will ultimately profit it from it. If you want to do it right, I am good with that too. But, it has to be printed money without taxation. I don't want to directly pay. That will simply cause more anger.



posted on Jun, 15 2020 @ 05:56 PM
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There should be no reparations at all. It is history and slavery hasn't been a thing in the US for a long time. Why don't the people asking for reparations ever talk about the slavers from their own countries and tribes that sold them as slaves. Or the fact that there is still parts of the world that have slavery. Slavery is/was a horrible thing but it has gone on for as long as there has been record kept. Giving money away isn't going to wipe that history away and it isn't going to have a great outcome.



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