Today's America: Fear Society or Free Society?

Nygdan you sound like a good christian, and republican.

We live in a Fear society..and its getting worse.

This country has not been so divided since the civil war. Nygden could be seen as the one side...the side in power....the side taking away all our rights.....while all along shaking there heads yes to there children's and grandchildren's oppressors.....Free speech zones are afront to a Free society...and what about the repubicans agin the cops on with shouts of shoot em all....just because we don't agree with them

The USA is not what it used to be,....all ya had to do was to have the supreme court appoint a man as president....now look at where we are ....not number 1 in so many areas....not any more

And to think so many of your problems, so many of the worlds problems - could all be solved if the ignorant public opened their eyes and did something about it...

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
And to think so many of your problems, so many of the worlds problems - could all be solved if the ignorant public opened their eyes and did something about it...

That would require them to lose the illusions they've been fed since birth. Or illusions they so desperately cling to, regardless of mountains of evidence contrary to what they believe. It takes time, I suppose; and a willingness of the person to open their mind to the possibilities of whose truth is really the truth.

I mean, look at me. I've always been a Republican. Not because anyone told me to be. Not because my family was into politics. (My dad was, but he died when I was five.) I think it was just in my genes or something. I've just always believed in those OLD GOP principles. Smaller government, balanced budget, strong national DEFENSE, Judeo/Christian values, 2nd Ammendment (right to own and bear arms) and States Rights. It was not always COOL to be a Republican, I might add. Back in the '70's (especially), '80's and early-to-mid-'90's it was definitely NOT cool. But that's what I was, proudly. Now, it's in vogue. And being a Republican is not what it used to be. This gang in the White House (the NEO cons) do not resemble my old party REMOTELY. These guys are a bunch of far right, warmongering, ANTI Christian (say what you want) zealots. They're not even SANE, let alone Republican. So, y'all folks out there, 'speshly you younger ones, who think it's so cool and badazz to be a Republican, you should really go back and learn what a true Republican is about. Otherwise, you're following a bunch of lunatic ex-LIBERALS who got driven out of the Democratic party for being warmongering idiots.

"One has allways had to apply for permits for protests. "

Not where I live. Requirements for permits for protests weren't proffered or suggested, much less the concept accepted, in '60s protests in the USA. It's my street, I'm a citizen, I paid for it and own it as public property and as long as I'm here with a sign or hooting down some phony politician on the street, I have a right guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America to do it.

I'm not applying for a permit from anyone because I am guaranteed my rights, period, and I'm not breaking any other laws at all by doing what I've described.

I was born with that right and I still have it.

[edit on 3/19/2005 by Noumenon]

i dont feel like i live in a fear society at all, there are simply things that are more evident than before... terrorism is not new either, as everyone forgot about all the hijacked planes during the 80's?? and i also think freedom is relative... i feel free, i dont have anyone chaining me down, but i hav ebeen a victim of CENSURE in the USA... we were thinking aof starting a radio sho and we were canceled for intending to speak against neo-nazism... i think there is a lil bit of everything....

We must sift through the right-wing warmongering propaganda.

The right wing will always single out America and call them "gods chosen country"This means whatever America does, whatever conflict it gets into, right or wrong, it's done for "protection of the constitution" or "because this is gods country".



The savage and dangerous "shadow force" behind the Federal government has constantly engaged in foreign terrorism, whether it was backing actual terrorists, gang leaders druglords in South America or if it was all out secret military interventions.

This IS terrorism, it's not just the "ragheads" who are the supposed enemy, the enemy is the federal government and the force of elites which run it.

It must be targeted and defeated by throwing the real truth out there.. the truth kills the enemy.


Rememmber, this is Gods chosen country, which means we can do whatever we like.. however everyone else is a terrorist.

See the right-wing propaganda folks? it's all about double standards.


Most of the garbage going on in the world has been engineered by the elitsts for your propaganda and entertainment and there profit.

[edit on 20-3-2005 by RedOctober90]

yes lets all point the finger at the Bush administration, meanwhile the Liberal Wing is "comicting" terrorism by starvinga womna to death, the kind of treatment that wont even be given to the worst of criminals ... Oh thats right ...Thats LIBERAL terrorism, the good kind

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Nygdan you sound like a good christian, and republican.

What you are really saying is that I sound like I am either laying or don't know what I am talking about. But rather, it is you who does not know what you are talking about.

We live in a Fear society..and its getting worse.

As discussed, since you can voice your opinion publically, the US is not a fear society. The US is very much a free society. If there are any trends torwards a fear society, part of i has just come from you, who rather than engage in rational objective debate, has desided to lob unfounded and irrationally obtained political dispersions.

This country has not been so divided since the civil war.

An absolutely absurd suggestion. The US was far more divided during the vietnam war era than today by any means. Hell, bush has been reelected by a majority. His conservative social programme receives rather wide support; witness the gay marriage referendums and the ludicrous schiavo case. This is not to say that there isn't political spectrum and that the opposite ends are far apart. But to suggest that the country is as divived as the civil war, of all things, is silly.

Free speech zones are afront to a Free society

How? All protests require permits. This is not new, nor 'christian and republican'. Its all not offensive to civil rights. The hysteria over the phrase 'free speech zones', the irrational paranoia and fear of terminology rather than substance, that is what contributes to a fear society and will hlep bring down the free and open society that the Us and west is.

[...and what about the repubicans agin the cops on with shouts of shoot em all....just because we don't agree with them

Indeed, what about the extremists on either political end who call for absurdly extreme means? Republicans certainly don't call for 'shoot the protestors because they are disagreeable'. Again, more hysteria.

The USA is not what it used to be,....all ya had to do was to have the supreme court appoint a man as president

What a surprise, more inaccurate and irrational blathering. Bush was elected president. The SCOTUS merely siad tha there extra rounds of recounting were impermissible and should stop. They did not appoint him.

now look at where we are ....not number 1 in so many areas....not any more

Its sheer ignorance that can make a person think that this has anything do to with a two term president. The US hasn't been 'number one' in anything for a long time, hell, longer than bush has been alive.

ghostsoldier
could all be solved if the ignorant public opened their eyes and did something about it...

Ah. So the people that do not agree with you are simply ignorant and blind. If only the american public could be as enlightened and have its eyes wide open like you right? Maybe its time you and other like minded people did something about it right? Yeah, we've all heard that before. Anyone can see where that goes.

noumenon
It's my street, I'm a citizen, I paid for it and own it as public property a

As did all the other tax payers. Your right to protest doesn't override their right to the streets. Thats why protestors have to apply for permits and there has to be regulation and police pressence, to ensure that everyone's rights are properly followed.

Requirements for permits for protests weren't [needed] in '60s protests in the Us

Illegal protests happen all the time, and often rather than supress them the government simply polices them in preparation.

I'm not applying for a permit from anyone because I am guaranteed my rights, period, and I'm not breaking any other laws at all by doing what I've described.

You certainly don't need one to speak in public. But if you are having organized mass protests, then you would be interfereing with everyone elses rights. Blocking traffic, limiting people's movements, controlling what they do. That'd be mob tyranny. Thats why there has to be a balance. Thats why assemblies have to be peaceful and in compliance with whatever local regulations are standing.

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
and i also think freedom is relative... i feel free, i dont have anyone chaining me down,

Do you pay taxes?

Do you have bills to pay?

Are you in any debt?

Do you support a family?

If you answered yes to any of the above, technically, you are not free.

Taxes and myriad fines, due to states' in-the-red budgets/negligence are unconstitutional; yet, you MUST pay, or you will suffer the consequences.

If you are caught enjoying some ganja in your home, the government can and will seize your property. They may or may not re-imburse you. To NOT re-imburse you is unconstitutional. But hey - who's gonna argue with the guys w/the guns, right?

If you are in debt, you are a SLAVE to that entity that holds the note. No two ways about it. You can decide not to pay, but you will be marked and your future life will be much more difficult.

I could go on and on.. but I'm sure y'all get the idea. Simply speaking (apart from the political repression) here in the United States of America, if you owe money, you are not free. You are what the elites call a useless feeder. Useless, because to them you were put here to serve them in their salt mines; you are a feeder because you are not intelligent enough to understand this structure.

Go USA!

The world is in need of a Socialist Revolution!!!

For more information u2u me anytime...

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
The world is in need of a Socialist Revolution!!!

For more information u2u me anytime...

Yup, people are going to give up 100% of the money they earned and give it to the state so they can decide where it can be best sent. Come on dude. It don't work, only a mixture of private and public entites tend to work best in the real world.

All "socialist" revolutions have ended in bloodshed and Stalinist regimes created. Always there is one man claiming to be the hero of the people and ends up slaughtering them.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by RedOctober90]

The socialism within the U.S. Army is as close to that as I wanna get. That experience is why I came to oppose socialized medicine. You get what you pay for, basically.

I am more open-minded these days about discussing possibilites and alternatives, tho.

Originally posted by RedOctober90
Yup, people are going to give up 100% of the money they earned and give it to the state so they can decide where it can be best sent. Come on dude. It don't work, only a mixture of private and public entites tend to work best in the real world.

All "socialist" revolutions have ended in bloodshed and Stalinist regimes created. Always there is one man claiming to be the hero of the people and ends up slaughtering them.

You are among the many that feel that socialism/communism is "evil" ... Truth be know a "true" Communist state has never existed, the closest it ever came was the Russian Revolution between 1917-1918, but alas this was doomed to collapse because the workers rebellion did not take on an internationaly stuggle...

You are all so worried about money, what is money? A peice of paper we have given meaning... It alone cannot solve anything, is it not the goods and services that are purchased with money that actually do something...

But I can understand why people are against it, that is merely the case due to the fact a true communist state has never existed, and the mass propganda that was spread....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post was way off topic, so I'll leave it as that... But for more information on socialism etc, Read some Marx, Engles and Lenin - This was the theory behind it all, and it makes alot of sense when you think about it...

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
You are all so worried about money, what is money? A peice of paper we have given meaning... It alone cannot solve anything, is it not the goods and services that are purchased with money that actually do something...

Well.. I've often said that, indeed, money does buy happiness - or at least peace of mind. True, it cannot hold you at night; but in this society, having enough money to cover your needs and wants does help. In a lot of ways. Don't get me wrong, I've been on both sides: having and not-having. I've had money and still been depressed; yet, it's a lot more difficult when your needs are barely being met.

The thing I most love about having security is that when my friends/loved ones are in trouble, I will do everything in my power to help them out. When you don't have money, its the same as being impotent. You can barely help yourself, let alone anyone else. That's hardly empowering. Having said that, though, I am not really that materialistic. Case in point: I've been driving the same pick up truck now for 10 years (and it was used when I got it). I've always liked it, it's been a great ride and not having a car payment is SWEET.

In the USA, just about everything but love costs money. That's just the way it is. I've said it before and I'll say it again, each of us here are as FREE as our bank accounts are big. Those who have great resources are free to explore themselves and the world around them in ways those without are not able to. Its always been that way, and it always will be. That's life. When ya got it though, it sure is sweet. Especially when you have someone to share it with.