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General Mad Dog Mattis Tears Trump a New One.

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posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Advantage

Which way did you fall on Trump threatening to use the military against Americans?




posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Wide-Eyes




The assault on Fallujah was a bloodbath.

I know , what happened in Fallujah was a war crime in my book but the Iraq war was what it was.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
No, Mr. Trump isn’t trying to protect American citizens he’s threatening to kill Americans on American soil with the American military.

Also, all due respect mamabeth, there are more than two “sides” here.

Threatening to use the Insurrection Act when there is no insurrection, when no Governor has called for aid, when there is no precedent in 200 years for his doing what he claims he wants to do, that is, using our military forces against Americans NOT in rebellion in which the situations are being managed by State and local authorities ... would make the President a lawless authoritarian strongman.

Rioting is illegal. So’s looting. But these are not the actions of an “opposing” military force which is what our Armed Services are for, Nor are they a general uprising.

I disagree with your assessment in short, all due respect,.


And meanwhile, in the real world, invocations of the Insurrection Act are far from uncommon.
Presidents Kennedy (1962), Johnson (1967, 1968), and H.W. Bush (1992) used the Act to deploy regular troops to quell riots.
Johnson deployed more than 10.000 Paratroopers and Marines in Washington DC at one point to get the situation under control.
Guess what, the Republic survived the great evil that was the Johnson dictatorship.

The problem with you progressive types is you know jack # about your own history and laws.
Trump says a lot of outlandish stuff on twitter, no question about it. But nothing he has done comes even remotely close to him being authoritarian.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Spider879

Trump is trying to protect the Constitution and our citizens!
The "other side" has used our Constitution like toilet paper
and seem to want us dead or brainwashed.

Well he's doing a crappy job of it, the whole other side constitution toilet paper part is nothing but hyperbole, I'm sure deep down you really don't believe that, but feel you must defend your tribe at all cost.
I've got a tribe too but I'm sure as hell will not defend their bull chips at all cost...certainly not my own soul.


Who was the other choice? Hillary? Shrugs.

Never my choice, can't show you previous posts, but ever since the Occupy Wall St protest days, I was officially done with her and her mockery of them , making $200,000 a pop per speech, maybe it was more.
edit on 4-6-2020 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Wide-Eyes




The assault on Fallujah was a bloodbath.

I know , what happened in Fallujah was a war crime in my book but the Iraq war was what it was.


With good old mad dog Mattis spearheading it.

He's a War Criminal but at least he didn't have bone spurs eh?



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: mightmight

And in the real world, which times did those invocation of the Insurrection Act happen without the Concurrence of the Governor of the State.

One time, and that was in Arkansas when the Governor of that state actively attempted to block Federal law.

So, yeah, ... perhaps you should a) read more carefully and b) know what you’re talking about before embarrassing yourself.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:40 PM
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Just for anyone that ... you know ... cares about the facts:



While hoping to find ways to quell the protests without bloody force, Johnson prepared to use U.S. troops. Nonetheless, he showed great restraint. He told his commanders he wanted to “make sure none of them are trigger-happy. … I don’t want anybody — repeat — anybody, shot if it can be avoided.” Johnson also understood the need to work with state and local officials, the people closest to the conflict. The night of King’s death, he told one mayor: “Don’t, please, send your skinny little rookies out with great big guns and all by themselves — if shooting starts, it may never stop.”


Wapo

(By the way, the Mayor of Washington DC DID ask for Johnson’s help, since there’s no Governor.)



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: neutronflux

I thank God that woman didn't get elected!

Because he did a lot of impeachable sht. the fact that he got away with it is largely because of his cowardly senators, who ironically like the General, only grow a pair after out of office.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: Wide-Eyes




With good old mad dog Mattis spearheading it.

Regardless of what you or I think he was an effective commander fighting for a win for the allies , war is never sanitary.

He's only a war criminal if he's tried and convicted.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Advantage

Which way did you fall on Trump threatening to use the military against Americans?




At this point.. I am 100% opposed to it. There are other means to deal with whats happening and its not putting active duty in the streets. Im very intimately acquainted with active duty mil and combat vets. This is not what we want right now. Maybe never. Its not that they are bad.. I LOVE our military... its that their training and responses will NOT be what is needed for this matter.. it will overwhelm the idiot rioters and everything around them. It will set up long term problems Im not willing to sign off on with my support.

Our police are militarized.. and so are many departments and organizations within city, county, state, regional, and federal domain other than the Military. If they are not being utilized to secure and defend sensitive positions then we should be asking why not... why is this being allowed to devolve into chaos and destruction.... we are asking the wrong questions right now.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

And in the real world, which times did those invocation of the Insurrection Act happen without the Concurrence of the Governor of the State.

One time, and that was in Arkansas when the Governor of that state actively attempted to block Federal law.

So, yeah, ... perhaps you should a) read more carefully and b) know what you’re talking about before embarrassing yourself.


You are moving goalposts.

The concurrence of the State in question is not necessary. The decision rests solely with the Chief Executive. Read the damn law.


10 U.S. Code § 253
The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.



Now if you look beyond the hysteria for one second, all Trump really did was pushing the Governors to action by pointing out that if they fail, or are outright unwilling to act, he has the right to do so.

This assertion of his was completely legitimate and leftist cry about dictatorship remains asinine.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: Advantage

I have always viewed Trump as simply inadequate to the task. Then about a year into his term, I realized that he was being maneuvered to function as an agent of chaos ... to bring rapid changes in old power structures and alliances around the world and here at home. It is also my opinion, while I am not a doctor, that he is suffering from a serious neurological condition, and that it is reprehensible to me for a sick old man to be used as he is being used.

That said, during the last few months of the COVID “pandemic” I became very aware of the nationwide and world wide coordinated efforts to shut down the worlds economies and basically place most of the world under “house arrest.”

(Yes, I do believe there was a pandemic threat. Yes, it was and is serious. And yes, the opportunity was used by TPTB.)

Trump didn’t use the threat of his real powers as a motivational tool. He didnt’ work with community leaders as Johnson did, he didn’t work with the Governors as Bush I did ... right out of the gate he’s making threats ... to DOMINATE.

When a basically weak man gets enough power to actually cause the harm that Trump could cause ... and then shows they are ready to use it frivolously .. we’re in real danger.

We are and have been living in a police state in the US. As you said, look at the militarization of local and State police.

They’re only starting to get a real taste for USING that power though, the unconstitutional “police power” that let’s them do things like call curfews ... and act for “the public good.”

It’s a much worse situation than those playing for a political team realize.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: mightmight

Legal precedent carries an equal force of law. Every President before Trump has understood that. No movement of any goal posts.

No, there was and is nothing legitimate about a threat from the President to use the American military on American soil to kill Americans.

We disagree.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Advantage

I have always viewed Trump as simply inadequate to the task. Then about a year into his term, I realized that he was being maneuvered to function as an agent of chaos ... to bring rapid changes in old power structures and alliances around the world and here at home. It is also my opinion, while I am not a doctor, that he is suffering from a serious neurological condition, and that it is reprehensible to me for a sick old man to be used as he is being used.

That said, during the last few months of the COVID “pandemic” I became very aware of the nationwide and world wide coordinated efforts to shut down the worlds economies and basically place most of the world under “house arrest.”

(Yes, I do believe there was a pandemic threat. Yes, it was and is serious. And yes, the opportunity was used by TPTB.)

Trump didn’t use the threat of his real powers as a motivational tool. He didnt’ work with community leaders as Johnson did, he didn’t work with the Governors as Bush I did ... right out of the gate he’s making threats ... to DOMINATE.

When a basically weak man gets enough power to actually cause the harm that Trump could cause ... and then shows they are ready to use it frivolously .. we’re in real danger.

We are and have been living in a police state in the US. As you said, look at the militarization of local and State police.

They’re only starting to get a real taste for USING that power though, the unconstitutional “police power” that let’s them do things like call curfews ... and act for “the public good.”

It’s a much worse situation than those playing for a political team realize.


I agree with some of this and disagree strongly with other parts. I think that there is a lot behind the scenes we arent hearing about.. and the fact that Trump is dealing with clearly hostile governors who are opposing him simply to pander to their party and outside interests that the THREAT of it was acceptable. He COULD enforce order with an iron fist and Its sometimes prudent to remind these governors how things work and showing no fear of doing it. Mayors and governors are NOT allowed to not enforce order and protect the average citizen.. which they have done since this started.

We arent in a police state yet, but we are about to be in immediate danger of it.. all the pieces are in place. Thats for sure.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I guess the term you are looking for is proportionality? As in you don't think the extent of civil unrest doesn't justify the deployment of regular troops?

This would be a legit argument to make. I'd even kinda agree, I'd settle for federalizing Guard units if States or Cities aren't willing to deploy them. I don't think a large scale deployment of troops is necessary at this point.

But these are political and tactical considerations, not legal reservations. It might not be the smartest thing, especially from a political point of view, to deploy regular troops, but it's certainly not illegal by any means.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: Advantage

Yep, reasonable people may always disagree.

I don’t agree that Trump or any President has any powers not expressly given them by the Constitution.

Also, I don’t see any State or city not enforcing order, in fact, the cities and States have actually gone over the line in several cases whereas so far, Trump has only threatened to (well, except for clearing Lafayette Park, which was unacceptable).



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: mightmight
a reply to: Gryphon66

I guess the term you are looking for is proportionality? As in you don't think the extent of civil unrest doesn't justify the deployment of regular troops?

This would be a legit argument to make. I'd even kinda agree, I'd settle for federalizing Guard units if States or Cities aren't willing to deploy them. I don't think a large scale deployment of troops is necessary at this point.

But these are political and tactical considerations, not legal reservations. It might not be the smartest thing, especially from a political point of view, to deploy regular troops, but it's certainly not illegal by any means.



Ah, I’m not talking to one of the regular idiots. Good post.

Yes, Trump has the powers inherent in the Insurrection Act. We could argue about the legal limitations but ... why.

We’ll see what happens. You make good points.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You


Yep, reasonable people may always disagree


I wouldn’t call you reasonable by a long shot..

Again...


originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

You


In your second case, you're simply lying. There is no state Governor anywhere that has given "free reign" to anything.



originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

What was I lying about?




Minneapolis Mayor Defends Stand-Down Order As Rioters Burn Police Precinct

ktrh.iheart.com...








Liberal politicians who order police to stand down are the same people who want to ban guns

m.washingtontimes.com...

For three days, police in Minneapolis and St. Paul were ordered to stand down as rioters destroyed their cities. In New York City and Washington, D.C., on Monday night, police stood by as looters destroyed parts of those cities.



Again. What was I lying about?

Reasonable people don’t falsely accuse people of simply lying.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Advantage

Yep, reasonable people may always disagree.

I don’t agree that Trump or any President has any powers not expressly given them by the Constitution.

Also, I don’t see any State or city not enforcing order, in fact, the cities and States have actually gone over the line in several cases whereas so far, Trump has only threatened to (well, except for clearing Lafayette Park, which was unacceptable).




Abandoning the police station to rioters which I watched live on cam on governors orders..... not subduing rioters firing on rescue and fire personnel.. Not stopping the bank break ins and rampant thefts.. destruction of national monuments and private property... I see a hell of a lot of failure. Catastrophic personal losses of average citizens is off the charts. Releasing violent rioters with no charges... I mean it goes on. People being killed for trying to protect their businesses that they have worked for. Its NOT being handled or contained. There is no punishment for wanton destruction... so they are emboldened and it will get much worse. Its like the states WANT the mil in to subdue this with massive force so they can say Trump is dictatorial. The real message is lost in the chaos.. that a man died and he is one of many due to police brutality. We have a lot of bad actors on both sides that really should be held up to the spotlight.



posted on Jun, 4 2020 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Wide-Eyes




With good old mad dog Mattis spearheading it.

Regardless of what you or I think he was an effective commander fighting for a win for the allies , war is never sanitary.

He's only a war criminal if he's tried and convicted.


I don't know what to say.

You don't like Trump. Mattis ordered the slaughter of women and children.

Edit to add: Mattis' opinions on anything are redundant to me. Much like Bush, Blair, Brown et.al.


edit on 462020 by Wide-Eyes because: ☝




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