Should the FN Five seveN be legal for civilian ownership?

Considering America's crazed gun laws, it's really pale in comparison to what you'll find at a local US Hunting Supplies Store or K-Mart for that matter...

BTW, the FN Five-Seven is nothing in comparison to pistols like the .50 Cal Desert Eagle or the Glock, both of which can be bought by citizens in the US.

Glock is nothing to write home about, and only a body builder could quick draw the .50.

The round that it fires is at issue, more so than the pistol iteslf. It's chambered unusually for a pistol, but I really don't see what the fuss is about.

If someone really wanted to kill another human being, who they knew would be wearing a vest, they would go down to the hardware store and buy a six dollar can of spray on teflon. Or, like I said, they'd use a tomahawk or a shive.

It's pointless to criminalize sticks and rocks, it makes more sense to criminalize the individual monkeys wielding them with intent to injure another.

Sure let the US Citizen have them if they can pay for them.

Free people should be free, not slaves.

Roper

Yeah why not, just let Americans have all guns they want and see how high the body count climbs, 12,000 dead a year from firearms last I heard...

Seriously though, instead of banning the FN Five-Seven, we should be more concerned about the recent un-banning of Assault Rifles for sale and other fully automatic weapons. The Five-Seven is peanuts compared to other weapons available to US Citizens, and definately something needs to be done about America's gun laws! You know your country is f***** up when you can stroll down to K-Mart and pick yourself up a nice, brand-spankin' new Tech 9...

FN Five-Seven really isn't much to be worried about, considering how easily guns are available in the US...

Godfather
I was hanging out in a pool hall, when some idiot waltzed in and started spraying with a tech 9. He was halfway through the second load before someone poked him in the balls with a cue from beneath a table, and nobody in the place got hit. Lemme tell you..there is no gun I would rather be fired upon with. It's so incredibly innacurate, and hard to control, and wasteful of ammunition (piddly 9mm at that), you'd have better luck throwing the piece of garbage at your target.

I don't worry about my neighbors having guns. I've lived in the worst neighborhoods in LA, Chicago, and New York; I've been drawn on half a dozen times, exactly 6 and yet I live and breathe and walk the earth, and I'm not the least bit gun shy. For me it's far easier to take the gun away from my attacker and add it to my collection than it would be to draw my own and attempt to fire first. If someone engages me from outside my reach (which is considerable) I have an easier time evading the shots while closing the distance than I would have returning fire. In man to man engagements, I am completely confident. But keep reading...

Now pretend martial law has been declared. There are APCs in the street disgorging legions of shock troops with shields and batons and SMGs. To engage them in hand to hand combat would be suicide. Without guns of our own there is no parity, no matter the numerical advantage citizens might hold. It is nearly impossible for the citizenry to resist the abuse of the state without firearms. To retain the right is difficult, to sacrifice it is insane.

EDIT: Fully automatic weapons always have been, and still are illegal. The assault weapons ban covered semi-auto assault 'style' weapons. Fully automatic weapons are a no-no.



[edit on 15-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]

TGoc, there were no full-auto's unbanned.( as you say)

It has been proven time and time again that the AWB did nothing.

I hope you love your shackles that your government will fit you with.

Roper

wyrdeone is right, Legal fully-auto guns have been outlawed for a long time, you can own them under certain conditions, you need a class III license which is VERY hard to obtain.

The Glock is as mentioned before nothing great, it's a semi-auto pistol with a 17round mag in 9mm, it becomes less the higher the caliber is...

The Five seveN's ammo is not very deadly, it's a scaled down 5.56mm round, so it's stopping power would be limited and likely designed to wound and maim rather than kill...

I see bigger concerns with weapons such as scoped-rifles in urban area's, assault weapons which easilly can be converted to fully-automatic by just drilling away a part and tiny assault style weapons.

Gun crime is largely commited by illegal firearms, most of them are pistols illegally aquired, my country has VERY strict gun laws and gun crime is still rising, illegal sales and import have never really stopped...hell, some kids somewhere had a RPG-7 rocket launcher!

I say, arm all citizens, and if the need calls for it they are allowed to use force, if the need was never there to begin with, it's illegal.

A law as simple as that could be the best deterrent for gun crime...

Now pretend martial law has been declared. There are APCs in the street disgorging legions of shock troops with shields and batons and SMGs. To engage them in hand to hand combat would be suicide. Without guns of our own there is no parity, no matter the numerical advantage citizens might hold. It is nearly impossible for the citizenry to resist the abuse of the state without firearms. To retain the right is difficult, to sacrifice it is insane.

EDIT: Fully automatic weapons always have been, and still are illegal. The assault weapons ban covered semi-auto assault 'style' weapons. Fully automatic weapons are a no-no.

So what your saying is most people prefer hand-to-hand combat instead of guns in the states, and you are going to need your precious crazed gun laws when Martial Law is declared... and that's why 12,000 people a year die from firearms, Ohhh, I get it!

One compound word, bull-f***in'-s***!

You also might want to consider Anti-Paranoia therapy when you think Martial Law is going to be declared and everyone is against you...

What is it with you Americans, why do you value guns and weapons so much? What reason? Why are guns so valued and morally acceptable when they kill people? Why would anyone need an M16 or an Automatic Weapon to protect their families or to hunt game? Why is your society so morally corrupted? You have the highest rate of death by firearms every year and yet you don't want to change your laws one bit, "Yeah it's the f***job's fault for that High-School shooting that killed 50 people, don't blame out gun laws, blame him!" Guess where the f***job got his gun from, a US Gun Store!!!

Sad... so very sad, I'm so happy I don't live in America...I'm just wondering when is the American Society going to wake up?

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
So what your saying is most people prefer hand-to-hand combat instead of guns in the states, and you are going to need your precious crazed gun laws when Martial Law is declared... and that's why 12,000 people a year die from firearms..

No, I'm saying I prefer hand-to-hand combat. And I have no idea what crazed gun laws you're talking about, but yes, guns will be necessary if the populace wishes to defend itself against the abuses of martial law.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Ohhh, I get it!

No, you don't.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
You also might want to consider Anti-Paranoia therapy when you think Martial Law is going to be declared and everyone is against you...

Thanks for the helpful suggestion, but I quite like my paranoia. If you don't think everyone is agaisnt you, you haven't thought very hard about the rules of evolution, or the rule of nature. We like to sugar-coat things in our modern societies, with our offices and suits, and our committies and legislatures. Unfortunately the truth is, and always has been, kill or be killed. If nobody steps up, nobody gets smacked down. People who understand respect realize this. People who don't..well they don't last very long.

Guns in the hands of citizens are a good thing. Even in peace time we're speeding up evolution. I love evolution..don't you?

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
What is it with you Americans, why do you value guns and weapons so much? What reason? Why are guns so valued and morally acceptable when they kill people?

Uhmmm...you can kill people with anything. I believe I made that clear in an earlier post. I certainly didn't say anything about morality..don't believe in it.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Why would anyone need an M16 or an Automatic Weapon to protect their families or to hunt game?

I would use a tank to protect my family if my government would allow it. My family is the most important thing in the world to me.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Why is your society so morally corrupted?

Because morals aren't profitable, or practical, and our society is all about expediting profit. I don't love it, I just live with it. Again..morals..don't believe in 'em. Your pleas are falling on deaf ears here buddy. You can have all the morality you want, you can have self-sacrifice and submission up the whazoo, it won't change the world. My morals can be best described in one word; survival.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
You have the highest rate of death by firearms every year and yet you don't want to change your laws one bit, "Yeah it's the f***job's fault for that High-School shooting that killed 50 people, don't blame out gun laws, blame him!" Guess where the f***job got his gun from, a US Gun Store!!!

What the hell are you talking about? What school shooting kileld 50 people? The society I live in is violently insane. I've managed to survive it with both testicles intact. That means I win. Get it? All those people who died, lost. Get it? It's a game, man. Understand the nature of the game, understand the rules, and you just might get an invite to come and play. Your brand of idealism has no place in a society like mine; you're bringing a casserole to a gun party.

I'm glad you live in a place that has no guns, that's really awesome. We've got the guns though, so if you were ever to decide that you didn't like our way of life and wanted to change it by force, by hurling soccer balls or splashing us with scalding hot earl grey, well, you'd get capped now wouldn't you? That's the beauty of gun ownership, it's the great equalizer. A 90 year old woman with no gun is a target, the same 90 year old woman with a gun is a combatant. It's a force equalizer, and I rather like the idea that geriatrics and women can stand up to 300 lb muggers because of that pleasantly chromed bulge in their purse.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Sad... so very sad, I'm so happy I don't live in America...I'm just wondering when is the American Society going to wake up?

Hah! I could say the same about every other society on the planet. In the Congo they just boiled two children alive and grilled a man for dinner..in London a man was violently beheaded with an axe in broad daylight..in China a bus exploded and killed thirty people..in Mexico they cage children and rent their bodies for a few dollars..the world is insane, we are living in hell, the demons laughs louder every day, and you're complaining we have no morals? The world is immoral, we simply reflect that more honestly than you.

[edit on 17-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
What is it with you Americans, why do you value guns and weapons so much? What reason? Why are guns so valued and morally acceptable when they kill people?

America was a fontier country. We grew up on the very edge of civilization. Firearms were a matter of life or death. We needed weapons just to survive. We used them for hunting and defense against wild animals. That hasn't changed much today. We no longer require firearms to eat but we still need to protect ourselves against sentient, bipedal animals that prey on the weak.

It's just a cultural thing. We value our weapons because they have always been a part of our society. That's part of being an American. The right to bear arms is in the U.S. constitution under the second amendment. It's our protected right, nay, civic duty to take up arms and protect our country against all enemies foreign and domestic. That's actually part of the oath you take at induction into the military.

And finally, let's look at this logically. Humans are nothing more than highly advanced mammals. And firearms are just highly effective tools, nothing more or less. Simple Darwinism, evolve or die. I'm not saying every attacker plans to kill you, but would you like to take the chance? I happen to be a reasonably fit, and well armed male. So my chances of being raped are very low. But the vast majority of females cannot fight off a physically superior, male attacker. A small handgun can be an excellent means of defense. By arming yourself, you have evolved your relatively weak form, by millions of years. Would you deny the most effective means of protection to someone and tell her it's because you want it to be fair? I think you're missing the point. So help me understand, would you rather be the victum or victor?

Listen, I live in the Netherlands, Firearms are virtually banned, you can own them under special conditions and then you can't even use it outside a shooting range or a competition, and if you are part of the rich elite you might even hunt or shoot clay pigeons...

While outlaws own any kind of firearm imaginable, we have done extreme measures to keep these illegal weapons out of our country but it's still not enough and every time I walk on the street I risk being shot or robbed my an armed assailent, these people are usually from 3rd world countries and hate our guts just because we are civilized (and sometimes because we are white).

In my standards these people are savages, and in order to protect my self I need a weapon, I own a baseball bat and an air rifle in case I need to defend my self and my wife from a burgelar, these are nothing compared to even a hand gun...and worse yet, THEY are the victim if I decide to defend my self.

This is how twisted and pro-criminal my country is, and I refuse to live like this in total uncertainty.

I rather be paranoid and safe than be ignorant and in danger.

Perhaps you like living in uncertainty, but I don't...

As for 20k deaths in the US, some are accidents due to irresponsible gun onwership (and is one of the most important thing that should be dealt with), only a few are caused by legal gun owners either self defense or spur-of-the-moment murder, MOST gun crimes are commited by illegal firearms, illegal firearms are often automatic.

You can NOT buy automatic guns in a gun shop, you need to get these at a specialized dealer and you have to have a class-III license which the average citizen can NOT obtain, and you certainly can't buy AR-15's and AK-47's at Wal-Mart, they only sell hunting weapons and plinking guns like shotguns, hunting rifles, target rifles like .22LRs, airguns, black powder guns and that's about it, I have worked there in the US so I know.

I wasn't a citizen yet there and I COULD NOT get a gun, many other people get turned down for gun ownership, and you have to have a FBI background check before you can even own a .22LR...

Don't judge America until you have lived there...alright?

Without the armor piercing ammo (which is already unavailable) this is just another pistol. All the hype about it is just another media scare campaign to drive up TV news ratings.

I just like the Five seveN's looks.

But the price alone is enough for me not to considder buying it, it cost 700-900 bucks...

Illegal? Where? Not here thats for sure. Virginia is the gun capital of the world. From HK in nearby Sterling to Alexander Arms in Alexandria its a gun lovers paradise. Now that the horrendus AWB is over law abiding citizens can get the stuff that criminals have been able to get all along. As an experiment Ill gladly use any offered credit cards to go and buy the outstanding FN Five Seven AND the new civilian issue P90 at the same place at the same time.(Full Metal Jacket, Alexandria Va.) Man, those Belgians sure know how to make a good gun. I can get anything here. If I had the cash I could probably find a Stinger. The missile itself is another story though.

How about a fully functioning M2? No problem. Functioning WW2 era artillery? Sure. How about a Nebelwurfer? Why not. Top of the line ARs and real Russian made AKs? Dont make me laugh. Make a day trip down to Murfreesbro Tennessee and watch your new .50cal Barrett or M468 be custom made for you! Or just wander into Wal Mart and pick up a .30 cal Winchester or Remington rifle and add the awesome Mossberg 12ga on tha side! Would you like a side order of tons of ammo with that?

Hmmm...I personally have just aquired a Springfield XD series pistol in the new .45 GAP. I shoot alot down at the NRA range in Fairfax. Im in the market for a good rifle now. Im thinking of fighting off hordes of MS-13 punks so Ive got the Springfield SOCOM 16 in mind. The new Krebs Custom AK series is very tempting and I can get a 30 round clip for it. If I can save for long enough I could also get an M4! For utter intimidation a brand new Tommy Gun. Yes they are still made. You can even get the drum magazine. Credit Cards please....thank you..

Ill start off by saying im something of a gun lover so if i start to ramble sorry. If you look at the specs on this cartridge you will find that its very similar to the old soviet 7.62x25mm tokarev. The only reason this is importanti is because that round is very weak and considering the 5.7 ways less it will be even weaker.My 2 cents

See how many lives are saved by gun ownership in America. This a subject not spoken of in this country. www.usa2076.com...
www.car-accidents.net...
Now maybe we should ban cars and sue car manufacturers for building and selling defective products!

Godfather, just for the record, no automatic firearms can be sold in America without special licensing that is practically unavailable. The demise of the Assault Weapon Ban does not allow any automatic weapons to be sold in the US.

Just as a side note, if you want to get good armour peircing ammo, all you have to do is buy Russian made rifle ammo. Quite a few of their manufacturers use steel cores in their rounds because iron is more readily available than lead in many parts of the country. This ammo can be bought just about anywhere in the US. This is a really old arguement in the pro and con gun game.

[edit on 1-5-2005 by sharkman]

I am a police officer and I also own one of these guns. This gun does not scare me at all. One it cost too much for "thugs" to buy and the ammo is also high. Now the AK-47 scares the # out of me. They are everywhere and ammo is easy to find and the only vest that will stop it is a level 4.

It seems no one takes "deny ignorance" as more than a slogan here.

Here's a little clue for all of you anti-gun types (and for some of you pro-gun types that are a little less than up on your weapons).

ALL TRUE RIFLE ROUNDS ARE "ARMOR PIERCING"! The only exception would be the .22 LR

Get that through your thick heads. Kevlar does *NOT* stop rifle rounds. Never has, and most probably never will. Trauma plates DO NOT stop rifle rounds (unless you stack multiple trauma plates with multiple vests).

Visit www.theboxotruth.com for more details, and deny that ignorance.

whats the big deal about the pistol it is sold in my local gun shop with lower powered sporting rounds and would the regular round penetrate a vest if shot out of a pistol it was designed for the p90 doesn't the 90 have a longer barrel?

reply to post by Nygdan


It's my belief that the constitution intended for us to have weapons that would allow for us to defend against and overthrow a tyrannical government should it become necessary in order to discourage tyranny from developing in the first place, and bans on weapons which are effective for such purposes are exactly what the constitution intended to prevent.