Federal Reserve & U.S. Currency

Altmis says:

"Unfortunately, Mullins' source for the stockholders of the New York Fed could not be verified."

That's the way it is with most of your information, Altmis. You pass off half-baked rumors and gossip as the whole truth, and half-truths as gospel, and expect everyone to believe you.

We're trying to deny ignorance here, Altmis, not perpetuate it.

Are you going to respond to my previous comments, Atmis, or are you more interested in a rant than in a dialogue?

Quote: "Doesn't it seem to be a Perpetual Pyramid Scheme, where as long as everyone believes everything is ok and that it's more than paper, it will be?

Also, how can you trust a centralized banking system (Federal Reserve in the U.S.) that *charges the Government Interest to Print it's own Money*? *Who's money is it then*? (Hint: CASH is a PRODUCT of the FED - the FED is a FOR PROFIT CORPORATION)

Also can this same entity that has the ability to create inflation be trusted?"

YEP you are EXACTLY Correct & NO they can NOT be Trusted!

The "FED" is the BIGGEST Scam, Sham, Fraud OF ALL TIME! Our Constitutional & Democratically Elected Government has been UNDERMINDED since Clinton Completely Sold Out to the "FED"!
Down with *PARASITIC Foreign Entities* Presence in our Country!

Never Underestimate an Americans ability to live in "Fantasy Land" & just PRETEND that everything is OK - it is NOT!!! Do you people understand the MEANING of the Words "Deficit & Debt"?

Is it any surprise that our Country was USED to Invade Iraq like a bunch of "LAP DOGS" - was that move really in the "U.S.A's" best interest? I think NOT!!! WAKE UP YOU FOOLS!!!!!!!

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

I 1st ran into this info here :

www.madcowprod.com...

don't let the cheesiness of the site throw you. hopsicker has devoted his time to uncovering the truth about 911 and related info. hopsicker retierd as an nbc business show producer.

anyways....what I have yet to fully understand whether or not , we'd be better off with, or with out the fed ! I dunno...lots of talk about how bad it is etc and who it is that "owns it" . or comments by wilson who said he betrayed his country [ by signing on the fed ]

it all appears kinda scary....but I'm no banker...and more of that stuff is beyond what I know.

I'll still keep an eye out...but like a lot of things in our history...too much time has passed and people are wayyyyyy too distracted to pay attention to vague and or wild sounding claims which counter their reality...

this topic is what brought me here in the first place. What intrigues me is you can do your own research.
I'd love to see if 3-4 of us can call the local fed bank, ask these questions and report the answers ????


goldismoney.info...

here is a brief exerpt....

A Phone Call To The Fed
From Dan Benham ©1988-2002
[email protected]
9-8-2

The following is a conversation with Mr. Ron Supinski of the Public Information Department of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank. This is an account of that conversation.
CALLER - Mr. Supinski, does my country own the Federal Reserve System?
MR. SUPINSKI - We are an agency of the government.
CALLER - That's not my question. Is it owned by my country?
MR. SUPINSKI - It is an agency of the government created by congress.
CALLER - Is the Federal Reserve a Corporation?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Does my government own any of the stock in the Federal Reserve?
MR. SUPINSKI - No, it is owned by the member banks.
CALLER - Are the member banks private corporations?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - Are Federal Reserve Notes backed by anything?
MR. SUPINSKI-Yes, by the assets of the Federal Reserve but, primarily by the power of congress to lay tax on the people.
CALLER - Did you say, by the power to collect taxes is what backs Federal Reserve Notes?
MR. SUPINSKI - Yes
CALLER - What are the total assets of the Federal Reserve?
MR. SUPINSKI - The San Francisco Bank has $36 Billion in assets.
CALLER - What are these assets composed of?
MR. SUPINSKI - Gold, the Federal Reserve Bank itself and government securities.
CALLER - What value does the Federal Reserve Bank carry gold per oz. on their books?

MR. SUPINSKI - I don't have that information but the San Francisco Bank has $1.6 billion in gold.
CALLER - Are you saying the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco has $1.6 billion in gold, the bank itself and the balance of the assets is government securities?

MR. SUPINSKI - Yes.

Central Banks have always received criticism. As previously mentioned, Andrew Jackson was the target of America's first assassination attempt. That probably had something to do with Jackson voting against a bill to extend the charter of the Second Bank of the US just a couple of years before the attempt on his life.

The creation of the Federal Reserve was as sneaky as could be. The first proposal to bring back a central bank in 1908 was known as the Aldrich Plan. It didn't last long because the people saw right through it..even though the creators agreed to never speak the words "central" or "bank" in their proposals. It was later revised by a Carter Glass who called it the Federal Reserve Act. Aldrich and others spoke out against it-not because they opposed it, but because their opposition to the bill would help gain public support. It was signed two days before Christmas while some Congressmen were home with their families and while the public had their attention on celebration.

A few quotes from 'some guys' about central banking systems:

"The bold effort the present bank had made to control the Government, the distress it had wantonly produced....are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution, or the establishment of another like it."-Andrew Jackson 1837

"Every bank of discount, every bank by which interest is to be paid or profit of any kind made by the [lender], is downright corruption. It is taxation for the public for the benefit and profit of individuals..."-John Adams 1811

"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." "The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson 1816

Geez are you guys ignorant. You sit at home on your computers in the middle of wherever, trying to figure out this grand 'conspiracy' that's going on. Fact of the matter is theres hundreds of thousands of regular people working on Wall Street, good people that care about the world.. that know the inner and outer workings of the economy much better than yourselves. They are average joes who simply work in a different industry and understand how everything works. They use this knowledge to their own end. Yet there's been not one whistleblower saying that it's all a scheme. Everyone knows that the value of money is an illusion, thats no surprise. So is the value of gold. It's an illusion. Whose to say that gold is worth 400 paper dollars per ounce? Or 20 ounces of silver? What determines its worth is public conciousness, and the same thing goes for paper money.

Oh, every single person working on Wall Street must work for the Illuminati I imagine? Simple fact of the matter is that the FREE AND OPEN MARKETS are the lubrication to our entire economy. The so called "Illuminati" are governed by the same two rules that dictate the actions of every investor in the market: Fear and Greed. The only difference is they got into the markets earlier, and compounding wealth since then has made them extremely wealthy. They also have helped a tremendous number of people during this time (basically everyone in the United States, your parents, grandparents etc), and their vast wealth has value repaid them for making our society the way it is. I imagine that the same thing would happen to your family, if you started investing, and in 100 years (with compounding interest) your family is worth 500 billion. You too, would be ruled by fear and greed, and want a safe place for your money and your family. Maybe then, you too, would want an NWO. I don't doubt that the "illuminati" exist, however they are simply very rich people who do what you would do in their same shoes. There is no luciferian agenda.

You don't understand at that early time in the markets that they took on a RISK. There was no track record saying the S&P has done this for the last 100 years, and probably will for the next 100. They risked their money in an investment, and it's since then come back manyfold. The opposite could have happened and they could have lost everything. Now they are just a bunch of rich fogies who want to defend and keep what they have built over the generations. Fear and greed. Fear of losing the money, and greed of wanting more. Fear of not being able to supply for the next generation. It would be the same thing if you readers inherited several million, and your father and grandfather explained why and how it was built up, and why and how to continue doing so. Simple fact of the matter is they have this wealth built on Wall Street because of the value it's created to every person in this country outside NYC. Virtually every person in this country has seen their standard of living go up manyfold over the past century. They are not hoarding it for themselves and making slaves of anyone. Anyone is free to invest in the markets and thus these investors will be ruled by fear and greed as well. Anyone is free to make money, invest, and become rich. Rich people are just people who understand how the economy works, and use it to their advantage. Warren Buffet was just an ordinary guy.. he became a stockbroker and the first two companies he bought for his clients wen't bankrupt I believe. But he used the rules that exist to his advantage, and he became wealthy. He also lives in a $500,000 home! while the rest of his money is working for him.

Think of our country. We are free, yet citizens are still expected to work and contribute. We can't be free and have all the amenities we have, without working. What nobody thinks about is the past 5000 years of human history. There was no AIR CONDITIONING. There was no CENTRAL HEAT. There was no dream of a house for every family. The majority of people WORKED day in, day out, just to make enough food to survive and raise the next generation. There would be no democracy if people didn't work. Let's face it, we have the best living standards in the world.

WE ALL LIVE LIKE KINGS, whether you admit it or not. You are all just as guilty as the guy with the BMW who wants a Porsche, and the guy with the Porsche who wants a Ferrari. Nobody takes a step back and says "Hey this Honda Civic is really great! I can't go ANYWHERE I want!". "This 1000 square foot house is really great!" Nobody takes a step back and thinks about how they are on a COMPUTER (which is an amazing device) and posting on an INTERNET SITE about this stupid conspiracy. If you lived 100 years ago, before this so called conspiracy started, I guarantee that you wouldn't be enjoying this life you have now. You'd live in a tiny little cabin and slave all day in the field. Is that really better than what we have now? Would you prefer that? I know I wouldn't.

Having a paper currency works BECAUSE it has no value, and this is no mystery to people who understand the economy. Think about the numerous small towns where people work only for one another. There's no factories and nobody makes ANYTHING. You've got a dentist, doctors, dry cleaners, teachers, salesmen, etc etc. Nobody produces anything of value and ships it oversees. Yet somehow they all watch TVs at night that were made in Japan. If there was no paper money, only gold, the people in that town would have to make a product or service that people outside the town need. That would be the only way they'd trade their gold. Yet with paper money, that town can exist and buy foreign made TVs, and get food and produce imported from 500 miles away. Why? Because people believe in the value of money, and they know that a dollar made here, can be spent anywhere. If nobody believed that, dollars would be worthless.

Also think about this.. how many people you know actually MAKE SOMETHING? I don't know any. My mother is a teacher. My father sells furniture. My fiance is a language speech pathologist. My brother is a student. My uncle works on computers. Yet somehow, they all have CARS that were made somewhere. They all have a TV and a computer. How can this be possible? It's possible because of the paper money that can be used anywhere and for anything. You no longer need to make potatoes and trade them to the bean farmer for beans, to the teacher to teach your kids, to the comptuer guy to make this software your reading this on, etc. Paper money and our economy makes it possible.

If there was no debt market, would you be living in your house now? No. If there was no debt, you'd have to save for your entire life to finally buy a house when your an old person. Or perhaps you would build it yourself. With what materials? If there was no paper money or debt, you'd have to go to the logger and tell him what you want, and find out what he wants in exchange. It would take forever. Money makes our economy flow. Debt says we will give you the house now, just work and pay us back later. What's wrong with that? It allows you to get the house now. At the end of your life, the only difference is you got the house earlier but gave a little bit of money (value) to the person who made that possible. (The lenders.. or the "illuminati" supposedly) Fact is, you enjoyed that house for much longer, and the small amount of interest you pay in return is completely work it. Save some money and in turn, you can become that lender.

Money is what makes this system work, and like it or not, evils or not, there is no better alternative. Check out communism, it didn't work. Socialism doesn't work. Or perhaps you'd rather we go back to the Iron Age and have no technology or money, and work 16 hours a day in the fields?

Wake up people. If you believe in all this Illuminati nonsense, you are believing the same thing as Osama Bin Laden. Only difference is we can't fault him, the guy lives in a damn cave, so when he sees our world, theres no possible way he could understand. I expect people who grew up in the real world to know better. If you don't like this system, come up with a better one, or move to the middle of nowhere, claim some land, build a log cabin and start farming. I have a feeling that won't happen.

Quote: "What determines its worth is public consciousness, and the same thing goes for paper money."

Hence the constant effort to DUMB Everyone & Everything down! Turning everyone into a
Dumb Stupid Driveling Idiotic Herd of Zombie People who can't think for themselves! Very Good Agenda!

Quote: "Oh, every single person working on Wall Street must work for the Illuminati I imagine."

Well now what would you call the Rothschild Family (Citibank) & Rockefeller Family (Chase Bank) then - Hmm... Lets see - I say Illuminati & Zionists to boot!

So that is not just everyone on Wall Street that is EVERYONE in the MODERN WORLD - have you ever heard of "Interest Rates" - another Marvelous Idea! Let us create Money from NOTHING Illuminati says - kinda makes you feel like gods huh?!

You got one thing right however - THANK GOD for the FREE MARKET! This way I can Mind all of my own Investments myself & Judge the Value of Things (Various Products & Services) myself & not get
Constantly Ripped-Off by the Bastards of the World! I LOVE to work for FAKE "Real Money" after all - NOT!

You do need to start doing some more Research my friend!

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

njspeed, have you researched the origins of the fed ? have you read the quotes from some of our founding fathers ?

I'm no financial whiz, or economist, but doesn't it make you think, even a little, that our national debt is primarily a result of one bank lending money to other banks and charging interest ? Why do we need that ? Why doesn't the US treasury print its own money and back it with gold ?

I'd also suggest you look up the 1963 kennedy dollar, and the lincoln greenbacks.....

Good work LordA. My contribution:


...The Federal Reserve is a private company, not publicly traded, so no information has to be released to the public (ie., the names of the owners). ...The basic information is available on the net through the Delaware Corporate Records site.

...The Federal Reserve was incorporated in Delaware as the "Federal Reserve Association" on September 13, 1914 as a "nonprofit religious" entity, File No. 0042817; the Registered Agent is "Delaware Business Incorporators, Inc." located at 3422 Old Capitol Trail Suite 700 in Wilmington; the Postal Code is 19808, phone number (302)996-5819.

FYI - incorporation as a "nonprofit religious" corporate entity means that no one has the right to view the books, not even the IRS.


Federal Reserve FAQS:

1. This one is official corporate spin, confirms private ownership, makes very much of extremely limited Congressional oversight. "An easy-to-read guide to the structure and functions of the Federal Reserve System" from the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank.
www.stlouisfed.org...

2. Verify corporate status at: www.state.de.us...
(Please look at the end of the first paragraph: "click here for status on the web." From there, at the end of the first paragraph click on "to receive a status inquiry on line, CLICK HERE." That takes you to 'General Information Name Search.' You must use the incorporated name. The search box in the top bar does NOT retrieve results.)

Also of note: Since the Federal Reserve was incorporated in 1914, numerous government agencies and departments have been made into corporations, one at a time. The United States of America was incorporated in 1989, as was the Social Security, Department of Health, Education and Welfare, for example.

See: “The government is a corporation, and registered in the State of Delaware.”
forums.sptimes.com...

3. Many people have tried to find out who really owns the Federal Reserve and much background research has been done...

The Federal Reserve Fraud and the "Invisible Government"
www.healthfreedom.info...

Chart of who "owns" the Federal Reserve
www.save-a-patriot.org...

The Federal Reserve is PRIVATELY OWNED
www.worldnewsstand.net...

Related interest - Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee
www.gata.org...


.

Originally posted by Lord Altmis
"Who actually owns the Federal Reserve Central Banks? The ownership of the 12 Central banks, a very well kept secret, has been revealed:

Rothschild Bank of London
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Lehman Brothers of New York
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York"

This brings up an interesting thought: alll the bank mergers lataealy. One former local big bank here used to be National Bank of Detroit. Within the last dozen years or so, it merged and became First Bank, then Bank One.
MOre, Bank One has just become Chase

Can we assume dark thoughts with all these mergers?

money.cnn.com...
www.oligopolywatch.com...
www.oligopolywatch.com...

Originally posted by njspeed
Geez are you guys ignorant. You sit at home on your computers in the middle of wherever, trying to figure out this grand 'conspiracy' that's going on. Fact of the matter is theres hundreds of thousands of regular people working on Wall Street, good people that care about the world.. that know the inner and outer workings of the economy much better than yourselves. They are average joes who simply work in a different industry and understand how everything works. They use this knowledge to their own end. Yet there's been not one whistleblower saying that it's all a scheme. Everyone knows that the value of money is an illusion, thats no surprise. So is the value of gold. It's an illusion. Whose to say that gold is worth 400 paper dollars per ounce? Or 20 ounces of silver? What determines its worth is public conciousness, and the same thing goes for paper money.

The thing is that printed pieces of paper have very little inherent value. Pieces of gold do, because gold is useful in electronics (what do you think your FireWire is made out of?) as well as jewelry, and there isn't very much to go around. Gold has a real value that may fluctuate, but won't hit zero until someone figures out how to get unlimited quantities of it. We can already have nearly unlimited quantities of printed paper.

Suppose a Federal Reserve note that says on it that it's worth 50 dollars. Its inherent value is less than five cents.
Suppose a one tenth ounce gold coin that says on it it's worth 50 dollars.
Its inherent value is about 40 dollars.
In both cases the currency's value is artificially increased by the government, but the gold is going to work a lot better than the paper if it should have to be used without government backing.

In addition, it's more difficult to inflate gold currency than it is to inflate paper currency. To inflate gold currency you have to store up a stockpile and then dump it on the market. To inflate paper currency all you have to do is crank up the printing press.

[edit on 3/15/2005 by BeefotronX]

what can be done , if anything ?

look what happened to kennedy !

my advisors sez we're in a nose dive, with the party goin' full tilt....the party will end when forward motion ceases. when will that happen ? I dunno....been expecting a crash for a while....I'll probably be doing something else and miss another opportunity to short...again...

so , again I ask. what can be done and how will it affect us ordinary citizens ?

seems to me that we don't have a pot to piss in, thanks to the whores who allowed " that giant sucking sound" to happen. [ the jobs we gave away !]

I think we have a bigger issue[s] than who owns/runs the fed

Nope. The Fed actually is the source of most of our problems. Their interest rates are part of why our taxes are so high. Getting rid of income taxes would allow for severe increases in our ability to compete with the world.

The "mystical" or non-intrinsic value of Fed. notes is, after all, very similar to the non-intrinsic value of gold itself. Gold does have value as an electronics component as noted above. Its value, however, is largely a consensus reality.

In the event of a big economic collapse, I would prefer to have a hidden stash of some commodity such as corn, say a semi-trailer or two, stored in nitrogen, and a grindstone, and I guarantee I could survive on tortillas and barter the rest for whatever I needed. Actually, if I kept all my money converted to beer, I could live like a king following the unforseen crash! But I do that anyway...

But seriously:

Fractional lending in itself often drives to frenzy those who first stumble upon the concept. It should be noted that regardless of concerns of war, pollution, and the other downsides to economic expansion, fractional lending has brought the human race unprecedented wealth, even if unfairly distributed (and while defending private property to the utmost, I will note that the political sphere ought to be used to address those downsides).


The Fed is a complex subject and the folks posting here are doing great research.

Of Rolling Stone fame, William Greider wrote a good general intro to the Fed in his book, Secrets of the Temple.

And Wikipedia has a huge amount of info HERE:
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 3/16/2005 by Noumenon]

I have got news for you - Gold is kind of Old Hat. ALL Major Financial Corporations now use Extremely Powerful Computers in their Operations. "Digital Data/Information" is the new "Money". Therefore if you want to protect yourself "Encryption" of said "Personal Data" is key! You can call it the new "Gold"! I will no longer give my personal information of *any kind* out to people that request it until they Prove that they are Legitimate & that they have a Legitimate need for it! "Identity Theft" is the new Con Scam Job of Choice among Scum Bag Criminals!

[edit on 16-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

It's not quite like that. Yes, your personal information is valuable, and having a million other people's personal data is even more so, but using other people's private data as currency sounds rather evil.

Originally posted by njspeed
Geez are you guys ignorant. You sit at home on your computers in the middle of wherever, trying to figure out this grand 'conspiracy' that's going on. Fact of the matter is theres hundreds of thousands of regular people working on Wall Street, good people that care about the world.. that know the inner and outer workings of the economy much better than yourselves.

Have any of them posted yet?
BTW allow me.... I work in an office job in NYC. I know wall street very well.
BTW... even more... you don't know how many people here also work at WS, or in WS related jobs. You don't have to physically work in NYC, at WS, to work in a WS related job.
And to know and learn now WS works, all you need to do is have a college-level education in economics. You can officially get it by attending college. Or unofficially get it (you wont have a paper degree to prove it) by going to the library, or bookstore, and reading for yourself economic books.
Economics, and how wall street work, is not hard to learn.

Originally posted by njspeed
They are average joes who simply work in a different industry and understand how everything works. They use this knowledge to their own end. Yet there's been not one whistleblower saying that it's all a scheme.

It's hard to be a wistleblower. Because the people who "police" wall street are part of the scheme. Check it out, friends of the president tell the president who to appoint in the "policing" positions, who then oversee the friends of the president who are involved in the stuff.

Originally posted by njspeed
Everyone knows that the value of money is an illusion, thats no surprise. So is the value of gold. It's an illusion. Whose to say that gold is worth 400 paper dollars per ounce? Or 20 ounces of silver? What determines its worth is public conciousness, and the same thing goes for paper money.

Now your going tooo far out on a limb. Precious metals are called precious for a reason. They are precious for esoterc reasons (research "monoatomic/monatomic gold"), and precioius for their physical properties. Gold for example is one of the best conductors on the planet. Silver has other unique properties. Same with saphiers, and the rest.

Originally posted by njspeed
Oh, every single person working on Wall Street must work for the Illuminati I imagine? Simple fact of the matter is that the FREE AND OPEN MARKETS are the lubrication to our entire economy. The so called "Illuminati" are governed by the same two rules that dictate the actions of every investor in the market: Fear and Greed. The only difference is they got into the markets earlier, and compounding wealth since then has made them extremely wealthy.

Your knowlege and research on the Illuminatti is very little. Either you work for them and are missinforming on purpose. Or you on purpose haven't done a through research on them. Ready for the counter-point that blows apart everything you like about the Illuminatti?
Go get an American $1.oo bill. Calmly turn it over and look at the back. Now you tell everyone here why an Illuminatti symbol is on the back? Take your time researching this LOL!

Originally posted by njspeed I don't doubt that the "illuminati" exist, however they are simply very rich people who do what you would do in their same shoes. There is no luciferian agenda.

You also need to do some hardcore research on secret societies. Check out "The Biggest Secret" by David Icke. He lists all his sources which you can look up for yourself. Its not just the "illuminatti". There's tons of other secret societies, getting their strings pulled by other secret societies.
BTW, the entire idea of the United States from the start was created, funded, and planned, by secret societies. They didn't just "happen to invest early". They MADE the entire thing. They designed the entire thing. The ONLY example of them almost losing Wall Street, was when Black Wall Street was created in Oklahoma, and was set to eclipse wall street. Black Americans had the peak of their power in America back in the 1800s- early 1900s. They owned their own land, buisnesses, everything. No need to beg whites for jobs, or to get into their schools, or to live next to them. The richest black Americans were richer than the richest white americans. Ill leave it to you to find out what happend to Black Wall Street.

Originally posted by njspeed
WE ALL LIVE LIKE KINGS, whether you admit it or not. You are all just as guilty as the guy with the BMW

1. We DONT all live like Kings. A king makes the laws. A King commands his personal army. Every King in hostory made sure his economy was backed by gold and or precious metals. Every King in history had his goverment directly print their own money (gold bullion.).

2. We're at the mercy of the real "kings". Gas prices go up instead of car makers using Tesla technology to get off cars having to use gas in the first place. Hemp is outlawed after it was law for 200 years saying everyone had to grow hemp. Result is we pay more for bad enviormental impact from tons of chemicals involved in making paper and paper products.

Originally posted by njspeed
posting on an INTERNET SITE about this stupid conspiracy. If you lived 100 years ago, before this so called conspiracy started, I guarantee that you wouldn't be enjoying this life you have now. You'd live in a tiny little cabin and slave all day in the field. Is that really better than what we have now? Would you prefer that? I know I wouldn't.

You've showed just now you've done 0 research into these secret societies. Which means your not in any position to debate about them. Do the FREEKIN RESEARCH first! LOOL!
These societies have been around for thousands of years!
Go to any major bookstore in your area. First book to start with is "The Biggest Secret" by David Icke. All his sources are listed at the end of each chapter. Look up his listed sources for yourself. Next book "And The Truth Shall Set You Free" by David Icke. Same thing. Then the rest of his books in whichever order. Read his ENTIRE books. If there's parts you can't stand, then just keep those parts in the back of your mind.

Originally posted by njspeed
Having a paper currency works BECAUSE it has no value, and this is no mystery to people who understand the economy. Think about the numerous small towns where people work only for one another.

Paper currentcy DOES have value. Ever hear of something called the "Gold Standard"? Do your research first! When any goverment makes its own money, it prints paper money that's backed by physical gold, and or other precious metals. Like the American Silver dollar, silver quarters.

Originally posted by njspeed
Also think about this.. how many people you know actually MAKE SOMETHING? I don't know any. My mother is a teacher. My father sells furniture. My fiance is a language speech pathologist. My brother is a student. My uncle works on computers. Yet somehow, they all have CARS that were made somewhere. They all have a TV and a computer. How can this be possible? It's possible because of the paper money that can be used anywhere and for anything. You no longer need to make potatoes and trade them to the bean farmer for beans, to the teacher to teach your kids, to the comptuer guy to make this software your reading this on, etc. Paper money and our economy makes it possible.

If these people you listed lived on their own, in no country, then yes they'd have to trade patatoes. But (I'm guessing you live in America) these people have jobs in a country, in America. Which means they use American money. Which means they use American paper money.

Originally posted by njspeed
If there was no debt market, would you be living in your house now? No. If there was no debt, you'd have to save for your entire life to finally buy a house when your an old person.

Here you go again showing more proof you've done 0 research. When America was first founded, the American goverment had almost no debt. Yet Americans were still able to buy homes, land, and other expensive items.
When Lincoln was president same thing. The goverment had virtually no debt. Yet Americans didnt have to save up to buy a house when they were old LOL! Americans were able to buy whatever they wanted. (depending on their education level, which decided what jobs they could do, which decided how much they were paid.)

Originally posted by njspeed
Money is what makes this system work, and like it or not, evils or not, there is no better alternative. Check out communism, it didn't work. Socialism doesn't work. Or perhaps you'd rather we go back to the Iron Age and have no technology or money, and work 16 hours a day in the fields?

Money backed by precious metals, and printed directly by the goverment itself, is what makes the system work! Which is what was DONE in America in the past.
There are other reasons for why communism and socialism "don't work". BTW, two words - Electorial College. See? America is communist too.

Originally posted by njspeed
Wake up people. If you believe in all this Illuminati nonsense, you are believing the same thing as Osama Bin Laden. Only difference is we can't fault him, the guy lives in a damn cave, so when he sees our world, theres no possible way he could understand. I expect people who grew up in the real world to know better. If you don't like this system, come up with a better one, or move to the middle of nowhere, claim some land, build a log cabin and start farming. I have a feeling that won't happen.

1. You tell us why an Illumanatti symbol is on back of every single American dollar bill?

2. You tell us why American money that was printed that was backed by precious metals says "made by" a different entity, than American money that was NOT printed by the American goverment?

3. You go from saying you believe in the Illumanatti, to saying you dont, then you do, then you don't. LOL! Truth takes time to accept depending on how old you are. A younger person's had less time to live with their belief system and to rely on it. An older person's been relying on their belief system longer, so have harder time questioning it.

4. Dont go by what we're saying! Get off your lazy bum and go to the library, and bookstore, and do your own research yourself.

[edit on 16-3-2005 by OpenSecret2012]

Quote: "but using other people's private data as currency sounds rather evil."

That is Not what I meant! First of all tell that to Experian & Equifax & the Insurance Corporations & the Government! It is the CORPORATIONS that want your Data! It is they that want to get your Data & if "Approved" bestow "Credit" to you at Interest (which most people end up Taking - well at least it is more Precise than using Silly "Federal Reserve Notes" - but alas sometimes using Cash is Necessary).

What I am saying is to use their techniques against them! Take measures to ensure that your personal data doesn't fall into the hands of not only the Average Criminal - but also keep track of when
"Government Agencies" & "Corporations" ask for your Personal Data - ask them why they need it & if you are not satisfied with the answer tell them NO!


[edit on 16-3-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

What I meant was while personal data is extremely valuable, it's not a good currency.

Not sure if someone else posted these - if so, my apologies:

Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins

In order to understand how the Federal Reserve came to be, it is important to understand the orgins of money and moneychangers:

The Babylonian Woe by David Astle

Another book worth reading is Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins Interview

For anyone interested, John Perkins will be a guest on spyman.ca, March 23, 10 p.m. E.S.T.