If hard proof, why disclosure not exposure?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: schuyler

Majestic 12

Scientific skeptic author Brian Dunning investigated the history of the subject, and reported his findings in the 2016 Skeptoid podcast episode "The Secret History of Majestic 12". He concluded that, rather than a hoax perpetrated by the UFO community, it is likely the papers were actually part of a disinformation campaign of the US government meant to deflect attention from secret Air Force projects.[9] Referring to the MJ-12 documents, Dunning states:

They were classic disinformation, false documents created to play a role in real national security. They were designed and written for specific marks who did with them exactly what they were meant to. They took advantage of well-meaning patriots who wanted enhanced national security, and who, by being easy to fool, ended up providing exactly that.[9]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Like to produce a rebuttal? Or you just a subject of government disinformation? So you would believe “disclosure” from a government?

Hey, if one guy did a podcast and says MJ12 was disinformation, IT MUST BE TRUE! And if I do not believe him, I MUST BE THE SUBJECT OF DISINFORMATION! Thank God for Wikipedia!

Plus, I have no desire to "rebut" some guy who did a podcast. MJ12 was not the point of my post. I'm quite sure "disinformation" is part of the UFO game. I really couldn't care less if MJ12 is a part of that. And it wasn't Walker's point either.

originally posted by: NightVision
a reply to: neutronflux

If we achieved space travel and discovered an evolving civilization, it's unlikely we would just land on their White House Lawn. We would contact individuals 1st, until a critical mass is reached.

Yes. Being an experiencer, I think something like this is what is going on.
Lots of people are having all kinds of experiences while the government is shutting up.

After all these years, I'm not really quite sure what these "aliens" are even supposed to be. If it turns out that it's just creatures / animals kind of like us with similar perceptions and motivations that fly here from other planets in metal ships, then I would be very disappointed.

originally posted by: neutronflux

Is it true some believe there is strong evidence extraterrestrials are in league with world governments?

On the face of this, yes, its true. I have very strong suspicions, through secret societies, and covert contacts, certain controls are in place to keep certain facts under wraps. The truth of the situation may or may not be revealed to them.

Is it true some people believed there is actual evidence of extraterrestrials interacting with our society?

Again, in the face of the question, yes. But more to the point, what role do these "Aliens" play in day to day life. From top to bottom, "Aliens" are among us, and we cant see the forest, for the trees.

If there is actual evidence. The call shouldn’t be for “disclosure”. The cry should be for blowing the whole thing open with legitimate investigation, and real hold in your hand evidence. Tangible evidence.

The evidence you wish to see has always been in our faces. Ancient ruins, ancient writings, and ancient technology, we were never allowed to know about. Nor, the extent of possibilities that technology could produce. If you want evidence, observable evidence, look to the lunar pitts. Or seek out OOparts. You can stand in ancient "Cart Tracks" that run for miles and miles. The evidence is there if one seeks. The possibilities of this technology can only be imagined.

Disclosure is a red herring to distract from the fact Ufology is populated with nothing but charlatans. If they had the goods, they could expose. And wouldn’t need the false argument of disclosure.

I have found that the whole story of UFO's is nothing but a Psysop, intended to keep people from learning the truth. Certainly, people have observed strange things, experiencing odd happenings. But when one looks to ancient history, it starts to become clear. It would be a simple matter of exposing aliens from outer space. As long, as there were no covert, hidden agendas.

And in that, lays the truth. I can say with some assurances that humanity may not be ready for that truth. At least, not in the near future. Or, until the lawless have been defeated....

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: schuyler

Majestic 12

Scientific skeptic author Brian Dunning investigated the history of the subject, and reported his findings in the 2016 Skeptoid podcast episode "The Secret History of Majestic 12". He concluded that, rather than a hoax perpetrated by the UFO community, it is likely the papers were actually part of a disinformation campaign of the US government meant to deflect attention from secret Air Force projects.[9] Referring to the MJ-12 documents, Dunning states:

They were classic disinformation, false documents created to play a role in real national security. They were designed and written for specific marks who did with them exactly what they were meant to. They took advantage of well-meaning patriots who wanted enhanced national security, and who, by being easy to fool, ended up providing exactly that.[9]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Like to produce a rebuttal? Or you just a subject of government disinformation? So you would believe “disclosure” from a government?

Hey, if one guy did a podcast and says MJ12 was disinformation, IT MUST BE TRUE! And if I do not believe him, I MUST BE THE SUBJECT OF DISINFORMATION! Thank God for Wikipedia!

Plus, I have no desire to "rebut" some guy who did a podcast. MJ12 was not the point of my post. I'm quite sure "disinformation" is part of the UFO game. I really couldn't care less if MJ12 is a part of that. And it wasn't Walker's point either.

So. No hard evidence then. Just another guys innuendo against a podcast where the guy actual tried for the truth.

To you then...
And there is no evidence of this among amateur satellite trackers that like to out secret spy satellites for fun, and amateur radio astrologists?

Funny ufologists are usually glorified folklorists and story tellers, and not active radio astrologists? Shrugs.

Funny you reference documents when the truth should be out there? Literally out there. With people with the equivalent and the time that actually monitor the skies?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: schuyler

Majestic 12

Scientific skeptic author Brian Dunning investigated the history of the subject, and reported his findings in the 2016 Skeptoid podcast episode "The Secret History of Majestic 12". He concluded that, rather than a hoax perpetrated by the UFO community, it is likely the papers were actually part of a disinformation campaign of the US government meant to deflect attention from secret Air Force projects.[9] Referring to the MJ-12 documents, Dunning states:

They were classic disinformation, false documents created to play a role in real national security. They were designed and written for specific marks who did with them exactly what they were meant to. They took advantage of well-meaning patriots who wanted enhanced national security, and who, by being easy to fool, ended up providing exactly that.[9]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Like to produce a rebuttal? Or you just a subject of government disinformation? So you would believe “disclosure” from a government?

Hey, if one guy did a podcast and says MJ12 was disinformation, IT MUST BE TRUE! And if I do not believe him, I MUST BE THE SUBJECT OF DISINFORMATION! Thank God for Wikipedia!

Plus, I have no desire to "rebut" some guy who did a podcast. MJ12 was not the point of my post. I'm quite sure "disinformation" is part of the UFO game. I really couldn't care less if MJ12 is a part of that. And it wasn't Walker's point either.

So. No hard evidence then. Just another guys innuendo against a podcast where the guy actual tried for the truth.

Yup, another podcasters innuendo replied with innuendo. Why is this guy's podcast sacrosanct again? I'm sure it is as reiable was Wikipedia, but it is otherwise random. One guy's biased opinion. Sorry, but I donlt view this guy's opinion as definitive.

To you then...
And there is no evidence of this among amateur satellite trackers that like to out secret spy satellites for fun, and amateur radio astrologists?

Kids gotta have fun. I see no particular relevance to "Disclosure." Why are "satellite trackers" even on the menu here?

Funny ufologists are usually glorified folklorists and story tellers, and not active radio astrologists? Shrugs.

"Radio astrologists? WTF is a "radio astrologist"? An astrologer? That's what the dictionary says. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Funny you reference documents when the truth should be out there? Literally out there. With people with the equivalent and the time that actually monitor the skies?

You've been watching to much Mulder and Skully. You want to learn about Disclosure? Here ya go:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, why don't you put is a similar amount of effort?

a reply to: schuyler

Funny you cannot argue the strength of you case. Just try to tear down those that weighed the facts.

So. Do you have actual proof? Or just rants, selective innuendo, and insults?

Nice. The old I cannot build my own argument. So I’ll say something crappy, then link to something with no explanation with no context other than my crappy attitude.

Again. Funny you want to argue something as gospel from a government known for disinformation campaigns based only on innuendo.

Now

Funny ufologists are usually glorified folklorists and story tellers, and not active radio astrologers? Shrugs.

If this makes you content. Want to answer the context of the question on actual physical evidence. Or you just going to keep referencing papers based on disinformation?

I believe we are close to the truth. And when I say close, I mean the pot is about to whistle. Ever sense the growth of high speed internet, there was a lot of information that got out to the public. We began to inquire information about underground bases and UFO's. We all watched popular television programs like UFO Files and UFO Hunters. From there we learned about the secret activity in Dulce, New Mexico. Shortly after that the show was cancelled with high ratings. After that we continued to learn more until Google/YouTube changed it's policy on conspiracy content and now, the stuff is hard to find. It's safe to say that there's something about the topic of UFO/E.T's that our governments don't want us to discover.

This has been discussed before. Many of our government officials are no longer briefed on the topic. Meaning; very few of them are actually approached by high ranking Government officials and told in words about the UFO/E.T. existence. A lot of the earlier regimes were, because we didn't have the internet so everything was still word of mouth. And I'm only speculating that higher ranked officials that are still alive; made the decision that newer officials aren't as patriotic enough to hold such a secret; as the previous generations were. So, it's fair to question why presidents like Kennedy, Eisenhower, Reagan, Clinton all spoke about the subject when they were in office. The only thing they did was mention what they saw during their travels. It's still up to the public to decide whether or not the claim from a president is truthful or not. Many people will just believe that a president spotted another top secret aircraft that was above their clearance level.

So what is actual disclosure. Well; it all depends on what you consider it to be. My example of actual disclosure is smoking gun proof that there is a presence of highly advanced civilizations on and off our planet. In my honest opinion; there doesn't have to be much disinformation for the powers at be to hide the truth from the people. All they have to do is keep feeding you old information about outer space; which still remains a height that the public cannot reach without billions of dollars to build a craft. However; the door to cave exploration is still a visible door that people can explore. If great minds would work together, we would have already found more smoking gun proof.

a reply to: neutronflux

Sorry just logged back in, been a busy day but I had to answer as I was struggling not to laugh too much, I mean that was like a brain fart or something you answered my post four times in a row when all you had to do was edit your earlier post.

Look I see it mean's a lot to you but sorry I have to disagree, I can trace most of our technology's back, we knew all about semi conductors in the 1920's and perhaps even before that but had not yet invented any electronic component's out of them (discreet let alone integrated circuitry).

Other technology's are pretty obvious though if you think about them, we have known about the refractive property's of stream's of water and light for a very long time indeed so it did not require an alien craft at Roswell to introduce us to fibre optic cables - all we had to do was create a form of pure glass that was also flexible enough and act like those stream's of water but better.

So you have a point but what about black budget.

Met me ask you something, you are one that would like everything to be neatly packaged into nice little box's but sadly that is not how the world work's, nearly 2000 years ago a guy called Heron (of Alexandria) created automatic door's with a coin operated mechanism that would blow a horn and open when someone dropped a coin into the slot, he also created all the element's necessary for a steam engine but somehow no one put them together so it too until a Cornish miners son invented one - before George Stephenson's rocket - Trevithick was a self taught mining engineer.
en.wikipedia.org...

But nevertheless Heron beat both of them.

We could go on and on and on, what about the ancient metallurgy of India and China and a bronze alloy sword as hard as steel that is still sharp enough to cut a silk handkerchief despite being found in a damp burial site it's blade somehow not rusted and indeed coated with a micron thick layer of Chromium, how did they do that, dip it in some chemical solution or electroplate it and that bring's us to the Baghdad battery, the dendera light bulb of ancient Egypt explained away as a lotus flower by those for whom facing the possibility of a previous high tech civilization is too unpalatable for them to bear.

What I would argue with you is that if ancient science existed and if it was a remnant of a previous age that may have rivalled or even surpassed our own then someone would definitely want to get there hand's on that, someone called the Ahnenerb whom were a core element of the Nazi party (it's paranormal wing) actually DID want to do just that - and many of there agent's, expert's and document's as well possibly as there discovery's were later spirited away to the states under operation paper clip.

It look's to me that you just want to be right, to deny possibility and force other's to go along with your opinion, therefore I put it to you that is actually you that are throwing cow pat's at the wall and with some vehemence as can be seen by your brain fart typing tantrum when you answered one post four time's with - and no one else got a breath in between them.

Do I have proof of technology that we have reverse engineered, damn no I do not and I can not identify any, but you know the old saying absence of proof is not proof against.

We all know that there are cases of misidentification, remember the Coso Geode, a supposed geode that contained a spark plug dated at hundreds of thousands of years old ONLY to later be properly explained away as an actual 1920's champion spark plug encased in old material that was backed on in a stream bed, they did not date the object only the material it was encased in which is why it was thought to be hundreds of thousands of years old.

But you know there are plenty of story's that are not so easy to dismiss.

And if you want to go and search for crap to stick to your wall (I most certainly did not throw any and if I did my aim would be better than that) then there is plenty of such crap around.
www.express.co.uk...

My opinion, most of our technology is fully home grown, perhaps all of it but we are also very good at suppressing our own invention's especially when they pose a threat, economic or defence and I could fill buckets with story's about that for you but this is not that thread.

Anyway those that live in glass houses should not throw stone's.

Peace.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: schuyler

Funny ufologists are usually glorified folklorists and story tellers, and not active radio astrologers? Shrugs.

If this makes you content. Want to answer the context of the question on actual physical evidence. Or you just going to keep referencing papers based on disinformation?

I doubt you even know what you are talking about. You're still off on astrologers. lol! Do you even understand how silly that is? Astrologers? Really???? The problem is you don't have an argument. You just lash out at those who disagree with you rather than address the issues. I just gave you a huge thread on disclosure. My guess is you didn't even look at it. You want disclosure. I get that. You want exposure. I get that. And here's your answer.

NO.

And if disclosure/exposure DID happen, it wouldn't be because of anything you did.

Oh, I forgot. It's all about "radio astrologers." That's it. Radio astrologers for the win. LOL!!!! Pathetic.

Psst! There is no such thing.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: schuyler

Funny ufologists are usually glorified folklorists and story tellers, and not active radio astrologers? Shrugs.

If this makes you content. Want to answer the context of the question on actual physical evidence. Or you just going to keep referencing papers based on disinformation?

I doubt you even know what you are talking about. You're still off on astrologers. lol! Do you even understand how silly that is? Astrologers? Really???? The problem is you don't have an argument. You just lash out at those who disagree with you rather than address the issues. I just gave you a huge thread on disclosure. My guess is you didn't even look at it. You want disclosure. I get that. You want exposure. I get that. And here's your answer.

NO.

And if disclosure/exposure DID happen, it wouldn't be because of anything you did.

Oh, I forgot. It's all about "radio astrologers." That's it. Radio astrologers for the win. LOL!!!! Pathetic.

So. You would still rather rant than actually Take time to build a credible argument. Got it.

a reply to: schuyler

You

And if disclosure/exposure DID happen, it wouldn't be because of anything you did.

Again.

Is it true some believe there is strong evidence extraterrestrials are in league with world governments?

Is it true some people believed there is actual evidence of extraterrestrials interacting with our society?

If there is actual evidence. The call shouldn’t be for “disclosure”. The cry should be for blowing the whole thing open with legitimate investigation, and real hold in your hand evidence. Tangible evidence.

Disclosure is a red herring to distract from the fact Ufology is populated with nothing but charlatans. If they had the goods, they could expose. And wouldn’t need the false argument of disclosure.


So you need the government to tell you if there is life beyond our solar system? Strange?

a reply to: schuyler

Oh. Cute your angry because I should have used astronomy not astrology. Is that all it takes to make you so irate you cannot create a credible argument?

It it very true that satellite watching is a hobby. And it’s very true amateurs have outed spy satellites.

Along the same line, one of my favorite facts while looking up Apollo mission stuff is the Kettering Grammar School outing a launch base.

In 1966, the fledgling group discovered the location of a new secret Soviet launch station in north Russia, Plesetsk, before the American military or intelligence services had released details.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

A grammar school can find a secret Russian Launch Station. But Ufologists cannot find and document extraterrestrials coming and going to communicate with world governments? While UFO’s fly around willy nilly at night with their running lights on? On their secret missions? So absurd.

a reply to: schuyler

Let me guess. We don’t know how UFO’s secretly communicate with the government while they fly around with their lights on for all to see?

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: neutronflux

I can only give you what I believe to be the case.

Not the artists impression of Die glock and the kecksburg UFO being tested by the US, was it captured German or German recovered Alien technology, let's remind you of this and that this was probably dug up under the guise of building the Nazi parade ground in the 1930's in the German city of Nuremburg.

Note the wood carving show's what were apparent UFO crash sites with fire coming from them, possible craft buried on impact.
During WW2 many of our own far more primitive air craft crashed with enough force to be buried by the impact and while most of those broke up a more structurally strong object may have been more intact allowing the Nazi's and there Ahnenerb whom had a long standing interest in ancient and other technology's to have dug them up and worked on them, hence the possibly partially repaired Die Glock with a swastika painted on it's side.

But of course it would not be the FIRST ufo crash to have been recovered, in fact there are many going back hundreds of years in some cases but toward the end of the 19th century there was a famous incident at the small town of Aurora in Texas were a craft crashed, the pilot was given a Christian burial though his body was probably later spirited away by some secret agency, perhaps much later.

Most of these craft as you can see broke up or self destructed into tiny fragment's but perhaps on occasion they were intact enough to recover and to some degree reverse engineer.

If anyone did do this then the US definitely has and by my argument probably so did the Soviets and to some degree the Nazi's were trying to as well.


There is one other reason why they will not disclose, intellectual property, the US MIC is infamous for patenting technology's and suppressing other's, some of these technology's end up making huge amount's of money for private corporations that are tied into the MIC, these copyright's would be null and void if they had to then admit they did not invent technology's they had derived from reverse engineering.


If you do some research into the Dropa case you may find reason to assume the Chinese also have at least one craft (unless it was spirited away by the west or to Russia when it was possible to do so or make trade with the Chinese for such artefacts), perhaps very ancient, many of these ancient sites though would have been stripped out by primitive man to use there metal's for other purposes etc.

Either way what you are asking is for huge corporations tied into the MIC to give up there patent's, that is never going to happen especially with a corporate aligned US president.

There could be MANY MANY derelict Craft littering this Planet...maybe huh?

originally posted by: Martian1127
I believe we are close to the truth. And when I say close, I mean the pot is about to whistle. Ever sense the growth of high speed internet, there was a lot of information that got out to the public. We began to inquire information about underground bases and UFO's. We all watched popular television programs like UFO Files and UFO Hunters. From there we learned about the secret activity in Dulce, New Mexico. Shortly after that the show was cancelled with high ratings. After that we continued to learn more until Google/YouTube changed it's policy on conspiracy content and now, the stuff is hard to find. It's safe to say that there's something about the topic of UFO/E.T's that our governments don't want us to discover.

This has been discussed before. Many of our government officials are no longer briefed on the topic. Meaning; very few of them are actually approached by high ranking Government officials and told in words about the UFO/E.T. existence. A lot of the earlier regimes were, because we didn't have the internet so everything was still word of mouth. And I'm only speculating that higher ranked officials that are still alive; made the decision that newer officials aren't as patriotic enough to hold such a secret; as the previous generations were. So, it's fair to question why presidents like Kennedy, Eisenhower, Reagan, Clinton all spoke about the subject when they were in office. The only thing they did was mention what they saw during their travels. It's still up to the public to decide whether or not the claim from a president is truthful or not. Many people will just believe that a president spotted another top secret aircraft that was above their clearance level.

So what is actual disclosure. Well; it all depends on what you consider it to be. My example of actual disclosure is smoking gun proof that there is a presence of highly advanced civilizations on and off our planet. In my honest opinion; there doesn't have to be much disinformation for the powers at be to hide the truth from the people. All they have to do is keep feeding you old information about outer space; which still remains a height that the public cannot reach without billions of dollars to build a craft. However; the door to cave exploration is still a visible door that people can explore. If great minds would work together, we would have already found more smoking gun proof.

I doesn't cost billions of dollars to build a Neutral Dimension Craft...a couple hundred grand....and you can do it at home if you have the workspace tools and motivation all of which are freely available to anyone interested.

What you do not have is the knowledge ...because you simply fail to accept it...not because it is absent....just go do it....if you have the resources just go do it....find someone who will show you and just build one.

If a Canadian Carpenter named David Hamel can do it so can you....if you want to.

originally posted by: one4all
If a Canadian Carpenter named David Hamel can do it so can you....if you want to.

It's not that easy to do what he did. He was looking at a "snow" screen on his TV and a couple of the "dots" on his screen came out of the screen and abducted his soul or something, leaving his body behind, he said he could look down and see his body.

I get bored looking at a screen of "snow" or static between working channels, and even when I did, no dots ever came out of the screen to abduct my soul and explain everything to me, so how am I supposed to duplicate what Hamel did? How do I get the dots to come out of my TV screen and abduct me? He explains how the dots came out of his TV screen and abducted him here:

David Hamel's Encounter from planet Kladen people


Even if that happened to me, I'm not sure if it would prove I was being visited by aliens, seems like I would wonder if I was hallucinating.

Did the space ship he built ever fly? I was searching for a video of his space ship flying when I found that video about the dots from his TV screen abducting him.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Have you tried to follow his directions?Learn his language?

Probably not he is actually an advanced topic in this Field of discussion,my apologies for leading you to such deep waters.

a reply to: one4all
Did the space ship he built ever fly?

I'd like to see a video of that before deciding if it's worth investing any more time in him. Searle claimed to build a space ship, but he says it flew into space, never to be seen again, so I never got to see it. The teacher can't really give credit to the child who says "the dog ate my homework" which is more or less what Searle's space ship story amounted to. But if Hamel built a "UFO" that really works and there's video of it, I'd love to see it. I'm not sure why it's called a UFO on this website's "Build a UFO" link though, because if you build it, it's "identified", right?

How to Build a UFO?

It is not that easy to build a craft that can shoot through the atmosphere, survive the elements of space and then return safely. Why haven't more people done it? If so; why is NASA still building space craft that resemble model rockets at the hobby shop? After that you have to get approval by the FAA and other government regulated administrations to do your launch. Building a craft that literally resembles a UFO, is probably going to get denied right on the spot; because they already know what you are attempting to do. Don't think I'm shooting your idea down; I love it. If more people could build these impervious craft's we would have already made contact with UFO pilots.

Just think about it. If you go so high up in the sky; your eventually going to see something. How; you might ask? Every time NASA has sent a rocket up; the camera's always show something else in the shot. We were always being observed every time we performed space travel. So I'd assume that if you were just roaming the sky with your home made craft; you'd eventually catch glimpse of a UFO in the distance.