COVID-19 is killing 20 times more people per week than flu does, new paper says

a reply to: xuenchen

At the top of the CDC you have people who would do anything to climb the ladder and would want a pandemic to make them go down in history books. I never even heard of Fauci before this, now his name is a household name and will be listed in history books for a hundred years.....well, maybe they do not make history books anymore, it was hard to get rid of the evidence of deceit when the history books were still around. Now history can be filtered way easier and at a click can be changed to whatever certain people want it to be.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yeah, I suspect a lot of these "experts" are so caught up in their fields and desire to be part of a pandemic, they can't see it actually isn't one. They want it to be a pandemic for personal and professional validation more than anything.

I also think they know it isn't as bad as they thought and are trying to save face as they can't just come out and be like "we screwed up" because the damage to the global economy was so great. I refuse to believe these medical professionals can't grasp basic statistics.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: rickymouse

Yeah, I suspect a lot of these "experts" are so caught up in their fields and desire to be part of a pandemic, they can't see it actually isn't one. They want it to be a pandemic for personal and professional validation more than anything.

I also think they know it isn't as bad as they thought and are trying to save face as they can't just come out and be like "we screwed up" because the damage to the global economy was so great. I refuse to believe these medical professionals can't grasp basic statistics.

You got both things, desire for prestige causes deceit, and profit causes deceit, CYA also causes a lot of deception to occur. No evidence that something is real does not mean it is not real....only that they have not yet found evidence that it is real. Number one thing to learn about reading articles in medicine, look at how things are said. One more thing, unless the evidence is accepted by the FDA....it still is not real. Then it has to be accepted by the AMA as real to be considered real. Reality is not what most people think, and only evidence that is accepted as pertinent in many cases is what certain groups of people who profit by it would want accepted.

These are things I look for when researching pharmacology and medicine, they have their own style. Also many things that are considered real in Europe are not accepted as real in the USA. I guess we have quite a few of big FDA guys getting jobs at Pharma companies after they work at the FDA for a while. It has been the norm for a while.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The actual study doesn't have any images of coffins. You're misrepresenting the facts.

Lol I don't think anyone believes I was trying to claim the study had a picture of coffins. If you need it spelled out for you, I was highlighting how the media loves to use those sorts of appeals to emotion by stoking fear.

The authors are from Harvard and Emory University. If you aren't aware, Emory is directly affiliated with the CDC, and Dr. Del Ray has been a leader in the effort to fight COVID, not to mention, advocating for healthcare workers.

Well then that just makes this paper even more ridiculous doesn't it. I don't really give a damn who wrote it, because the methodologies used are highly flawed and obviously designed to reach a specific conclusion.

You aren't interested in analysis, or in actually evaluating the study for facts (how could you be, you're not talking about the actual study) you're intent on "debunking" anything that doesn't fit your (apparent) chossen narrative that COVID is "just like the flu."

If I'm not mistaken, I wrote multiple paragraphs explaining precisely why their methodology is completely ridiculous. It is you who has entirely failed to provide any sort of explanation for why my analysis is incorrect.

Furthermore, this is the first thread I've written debunking an article like this, and the only reason I bothered is because the premise of the study was so easily debunked, and the article was trending, call me crazy but I oppose spreading disinformation.

Then you want to cry because the summary of the actual study you're critiquing actually tries to get documented information on flu deaths by going to the actual death certificates. You know, actual data, not the "well we all know" BS that you're spouting.

At this point I'm beginning to suspect you didn't even read my full opening post. You can't just count only the death certificates which list influenza because it's rarely listed, that is exactly why the CDC has to make estimations for the flu.

Obviously it's not entirely meaningful to compare those CDC estimations with the Covid-19 death figures, but it's still a hell of a lot more reliable than what they did in this study because the CDC estimations are closer to the real number of flu deaths.

Nope. You want to argue belief, as does most of the gang ... dont' pretend you're actually making comments about the science, though.

Right, I'm the one ignoring science and arguing based on beliefs... keep telling yourself that. At least I was able to come back to an entertaining thread thanks to you, I do appreciate that.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: Gryphon66

Science is for f@#s, man.

Yes, that must be why my most used forum is the science forum. How about you guys actually explain precisely what part of my analysis is not factual or misrepresents this study. When you do that then maybe I'll think you have some understanding of science yourself.

Ok I decided to give the original "study" a read now that I have a free moment, and it's worse than I thought. It's not even a proper study, it's an 11 paragraph article listed as a "viewpoint" on the JAMA Internal Medicine website. The arguments made in the article are exactly the same as what the livescience article says. Still a highly flawed conclusion no matter how you slice it.

People are mentioning in this thread and others that the actual deaths from covid 19 are far less than the official figures due to alleged fudging of numbers.
However there is much stronger evidence that the figures are actually being under reported. For a start there was a large increase in deaths world wide of pneumonia but it was being realised that covid 19 is actually causing these deaths. Then there has been the worldwide issue of of under testing and so many more deaths from covid would have gone under the radar. Then there's the many people dying at home and in care homes.
You're only looking at one side and ignoring the other in order to suit your bias.
Alleged fudging of death certificates vs actual under reporting of deaths World wide? Its clear the numbers are much higher not lower.

a reply to: 666yrasrevdA

None of it matters. Things have to open up no matter what the death rate is. You can't shut the economy down for 2 years.

All I hear in these forums is "its just the flu derp!" "scientists are wack!" "I heard a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who watched a video on YouTube saying it's all fake derp!"

a reply to: MRinder
I didn't say we should shut the economy down for 2 years, the discussion is about the severity of the virus. Stop moving the goal posts.

originally posted by: 666yrasrevdA
a reply to: MRinder
I didn't say we should shut the economy down for 2 years, the discussion is about the severity of the virus. Stop moving the goal posts.

My bad. According to the CDC the death rate is less than .4 pct

It's sad how the news media is so eagerly anticipating the moment when the USA hits 100,000 deaths.

The official CDC website says just under 74,000 deaths thus far.

Source: www.cdc.gov...

But the idiots on CBS News started out the top of the evening news today by playing funeral background music, putting "100,000 Deaths" on the screen, while saying in their most dire voice... "The U.S. is nearing a grim benchmark of 100,000 CoronaVirus deaths tonight".

But the media will not mention that very few Americans know someone who has died of Covid-19.

a reply to: MRinder
And the general global consensus among scientific bodies is over 1 percent.

Neither the flu deaths or the covid deaths are that accurate.
But we will be at 100,000 covid deaths being reported by the end of the memorial day weekend it looks like.
So, considering that all those motives that are being mentioned as possible reasons for them to purposely inflate the numbers.... funding, profit ect... would be present for both previous flu outbreaks and this virus outbreak my guess would be that it wouldnt really matter THAT much.
A flu season is considerably longer than the time we have so far been dealing with this virus and schools, businesses, life usually doesnt come to a near stop during your typical flu season. The fact that we shut down this time would have caused the number of deaths to be less than they would have been if we had treated this as just your typical flu. So, if the virus isnt more dangerous than your typical flu, you should be able to find a flu season that has has more that 100,000 deaths... alot more since that 100,000 is gonna just keep growing till it runs its course.
You have to go back quit a ways to find a year that the flu season had a death count that even comes close to the present covid death count.
But, if you still insist that we cant rely on the numbers...
Ok, how about your eyes and ears?? Can you remember a time when your typical flu overtaxed a city's healthcare system like what happened in NY City? Where they were sending navy hospital ships in, building tent hospitals, converting buildings to add beds to the many they already had filled. When was the last time a city brought in doctors from across the country, graduated medical students early so they could join the fight? You cant!!!

a reply to: carewemust

You've been told this:

National provisional counts include deaths occurring within the 50 states and the District of Columbia that have been received and coded as of the date specified. It is important to note that it can take several weeks for death records to be submitted to National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), processed, coded, and tabulated. Therefore, the data shown on this page may be incomplete, and will likely not include all deaths that occurred during a given time period, especially for the more recent time periods.

CDC, IBID

You know the CDC data is behind due to Trump funding cuts. You know that the Trump Administration is trying to manipulate the numbers. You're accusing others of lying, and yet, you keep on misrepresenting these numbers.

I wonder why.

a reply to: dawnstar

Differences betwen COVID and Flu:

Virulence: It infects at rate 5 times that of most flu viruses. The danger of COVID (or one of them) is overwhelming the healthcare system.

Mortality: As opposed to the continual lies presented, COVID's is around 6.5% worldwide.

Most threatened: The elderly, the immunocompromised, cardiac patients, diabetics.

a reply to: Gryphon66

They should add healthcare workers, meat packing employees, nursing home staff, cops, and the Navajo nation to the list of most threatened...
Last I heard, the Navajo nation has the highest number of cases per capital in the country.

And, Montgomery alabama along with another city have either run out of ICU beds or are dangerously close to.. cant remember which one is floating around between sorry we dont have a bed for you and my arent you the lucky one we have a couple of beds today...

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

They should add healthcare workers, meat packing employees, nursing home staff, cops, and the Navajo nation to the list of most threatened...
Last I heard, the Navajo nation has the highest number of cases per capital in the country.

And, Montgomery alabama along with another city have either run out of ICU beds or are dangerously close to.. cant remember which one is floating around between sorry we dont have a bed for you and my arent you the lucky one we have a couple of beds today...

Montgomery AL only has one ICU bed. That's inaccurate. There are very few ICU "beds" in Montgomery. They're sending them to Birmingham.

Yes, despite our best wishes, the pandemic is not over.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Over 100 miles away. Close to a 2 hour drive...
Hope they are transporting them by chopper??

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

Over 100 miles away. Close to a 2 hour drive...
Hope they are transporting them by chopper??

That's what Montgomery has done for a long time. Even worse when they have to be brought to Atlanta.

Montgomery is a ... very poor city.