a reply to: ChesterJohn
I believe that, according to Prov 8:22-24 (if chronologically recorded here), God made the earth as a way to exalt the one he possessed in the
beginning of his ways, then he made the Depth of space and put the earth out into it along with fountains of water. (take note that the new earth has
no seas (Rev 22:1) and I believe the original did not either.
Hi Chester. Bless you and may God keep using you for His glory.
Now Chester i realize that we do not agree on some matters but I do not want to leave the impression that my beliefs are the only valid beliefs
either. Down through the many years of my life i have changed opinions many times as people have shown me wrong and i am willing to reevaluate my
beliefs if i can understand where i am wrong. As you may understand i am Christian Jew by adoption and even well past 90 years i am still learning.
With that all said, i do not agree or perhaps am misunderstanding you.
I am not understanding you in "God made the earth" Do you mean He created the earth or formed the creation of earth? I am not being picky but ask
this because in my understanding the Spirit God created nothing in our understanding. The Apostle John tells us that God brought forth His image
after His likeness and we know this entity as "The Word Of God". It was this entity named "Word" that created all that is in heaven and in this
universe. This world and this universe were formed from the creation of earth and water but the earth and water came from unknowable sources. Here
lies the problem in most all religions.
Gen 1:1 -2
(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Now the Apostle John tells that --
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Both Moses and John have said that in the beginning God and "Word" were present.
(22) The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
(23) I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
(24) When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
(25) Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
(26) While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
(27) When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
(28) When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
(29) When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
(30) Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Here lays the problem in interpretation. Some say that the "Word" was with God but had no creative power and they cite 'Proverbs chapter 8 to prove
their point. Just as we have read here, the "Word" is shown as being with God and observing Gods handiwork but no mention of the "Word" being the
Then we can go to Colossians and are led to a different account.
Col 1:14 -17
(15) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
The argument is from the words "by Him" --- If we interpret those words as because of him then we can accept Proverbs account but if we interpret
"by Him" to mean that He [The Word] created then we have a disagreement. Now if you read Colossians 1:15-17 you will see that [all things were
created by him and for him. So where do we go from here? We have a disagreement in that "The Word" created in the NT and that God created in the
OT. Is this to say that there were two entities in creation or one entity in creation.
We have the same problem in the Genesis account as we read --
Gen 1:26 --
(26) And God said, Let us make man in our
image, after our
likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the
fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
According to this account there are more than one who created man. Who is the "our" in this account? Is it the same circumstance as in the Proverbs
account? The mystery of two in one is brought into play here. But in
Proverbs how can one be the observer and the observed at the same time?
Perhaps you can shed a little light on this.