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The MJ-12 Documents – Who? Why? How?

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posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:31 AM
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The MJ-12 Documents – Who, Why? How? Did they Affect Ufology?



The mythology in the ‘Majestic’, ‘Majic’ or ‘MJ-12’ documents has permeated ufology since they first appeared in the 1980s. Most now accept that these documents were hoaxed. But the memes the MJ-12 papers generated were spread by a small number of people that had a huge and damaging impact.

This thread follows on from ‘The Doty Files Thread’. A delve deeper into the historical background surrounding the emergence of the MJ-12 papers, the parties involved and the profound impact on the UFO community.

Note : There was a very real but obscurely referenced emergency war plan called MAJESTIC (see Guidance for Emergency War Plan (Majestic 1844/116), 2 November 1951. referenced in American War Plans 1945-1950).


Background to the MJ-12 Documents




The ‘MJ-12’ or ‘Majestic 12 documents’ are a collection of official looking papers that first began to surface in the 1980s. They purportedly revealed the existence of a secret 12 man committee of US scientists, politicians and high ranking military personnel. A group formed by executive order in 1947 in the aftermath of an extra-terrestrial spacecraft crashing to Earth near Roswell, New Mexico. The objective of this secret “Majestic 12” group was supposedly the study and investigation of an alien presence and crashed ET technology.

Timeline


An abbreviated timeline of the MJ-12 documents is as follows:
1980 - Bill Moore (with Charles Berlitz) authors a book ‘The Roswell Incident’

1981 – US Air Force Office of Special Investigations [AFOSI] agent – Richard C. Doty provides Moore with allegedly classified documents. Including the "Aquarius Teletype Document” claiming an alien was recovered from a UFO crash, Jesus was created by ET and references to the MJ-12 control group.

Note : Records show there was a real Project Aquarius which was a 1970s Military Ocean Surveillance feasibility study into tracking aircraft, missiles, ships and submarines from over-the-horizon…

1982 – Moore asks Bob Pratt [of "The National Enquirer"] to help him publish a book based on the Aquarius documents. Richard Doty provides assistance under the pseudonym ‘Ronald L. Davis’. The book is never published.

April 1983 - Linda Moulton Howe, is preparing material for an HBO TV documentary about UFOs. Richard C. Doty, an AFOSI agent at Kirtland Air Force Base. Doty takes her to a small office and passes several papers including Project Aquarius

Howe was allowed to read, but not make notes or copies of, the papers. Doty also offered Howe film taken of aliens at Holloman AFB from 1964. The film never materialized and, because of the delay, Howe’s contract to produce her documentary expires.

1984 - TV producer friend of Bill Moore, Jamie Shandera, anonymously receives a roll of film in the mail. When developed it shows official looking documents detailing the formation and organisation of MJ-12. Anonymously sent copies are also mailed at a later date to others (including British ufologists Jenny Randles and Timothy Good).

1987 - Timothy Good releases his book ‘Above Top Secret’. The first widely available publication to discuss the MJ-12 documents. Shortly afterwards further documents were released into the public domain by Friedman, Moore and Shandera.

1988 – October 14th, a heavily scripted TV show, 'UFO Live!' airs in both the US and USSR. It includes a disguised Doty and Robert Collins plus Moore, Friedman and Shandera telling some amazing stories.



1989 - Bob Lazar tells his story which includes ‘Majestic’ references.

1990s - Further MJ-12 related documents are received by Timothy S. Cooper and Don Berliner. Their provenance and creator(s) remain unknown.

2007 - Author Dr. Michael Heiser requests Dr. Carol Chaski perform linguistics testing on a sample of MJ-12 documents. Her assessment was that the papers she examined were almost certainly forgeries.

2017 - Thirty years after their first public exposure yet another MJ-12 document is supposedly made public. Allegedly leaked to Heather Wade a month before the 70th anniversary of Roswell.



Whoever created the MJ-12 documents took considerable time and effort to produce them. They must also have had access to certain records and resources to give an appearance of authenticity. To date no one has admitted to creating them nor does it appear anyone has profited financially from doing so.

MJ-12 - The Believers & Promoters


Friedman

Stanton Friedman spent two years attempting to authenticate the documents before going public. He always maintained that some of the MJ-12 papers were real despite evidence to the contrary.

British ufologist Jenny Randles publicly rejected the MJ-12 papers as a fraud in a Manchester (UK) newspaper interview. This resulted in Stanton Friedman taking legal action against her because he would be speaking in the same area soon after the story went to press and her comments were damaging to his career!


Howe

Linda Moulton Howe effectively had her TV career stifled by dealing with Doty. However Linda has continued to promote even obvious counterfeits like the SOM1-01 manual to this day as a bona fide government document.



The Woods

The father and son team of Robert M. Wood and Ryan S. Wood were steadfast supporters of the authenticity of most of the MJ-12 documents based mainly on their own personal assumptions. A website dedicated to their research is archived at : majesticdocuments.waskosky.com.

Lear

In late 1987 John Lear got infected too by MJ-12 and issued a Paranet posting…





In 1947, President Truman established a group of 12 of the top military scientific personnel of their time. They were known as MJ-12. Although the group exists today, none of the original members are still alive………
Paranet – Dec 1987



Lazar The following year on May 24th 1989 Bob Lazar, a friend of John Lear, appeared on Las Vegas TV claiming to have worked at Area 51 back engineering alien craft from Zeta Reticuli. The base and the aliens home planet had already been mentioned in UFO Cover Up Live six months earlier on 14th Oct 1988.

As for Bob’s mention of working at S-4. That would also appear in the SOM1-01 Operations MJ-12 Group Special Operations Manual mailed to Don Berliner in a new batch of papers in 1994. Don Berliner denounced the SOM101 manual in 1999 as counterfeit.

>>>
edit on 27/4/2020 by mirageman because: ...




posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:31 AM
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MJ-12 - The Naysayers


In March 1989 researcher Robert Hastings pronounced the documents as fakes and also confirmed a few other connections too. One being that Bill Moore was either a US intel officer or illegally impersonating one. Another that John Lear was now involved in the shenanigans and that Doty’s associate Bob Collins had also been working with Bill Moore behind the scenes.



… About Robert "Bob" Collins… at the time of his departure from the U.S. Air Force, he was assigned to the Plasma Physics group at Sandia National Laboratory located at Kirtland AFB [the same base Rick Doty worked at in the 80s]. Linda Howe states that in November 1987, Collins was "frantically" trying to get her to meet with him in Albuquerque. …At that meeting, also attended by John Lear, Collins showed the two some MJ-12 documents, primarily relating to a live alien allegedly held captive by the U.S. Government. According to Howe, Collins stated that he had worked "behind the scenes" with Bill Moore for years….

In December 1985, I read an article by Barry Greenwood about an allegedly ultra-secret government group called "MJ-12". The article was based on information provided by researcher Lee Graham….

In early June, 1987, I called Lee again…

…. Graham went on to state that [Bill] Moore claimed that he (Moore) had been "flagged" in U.S. intelligence agencies' computer files so that other operatives would not stumble over and inadvertently expose his operations. Lee went on to say that he had once been introduced to Moore's "superior" whom Moore would only identify as "Richard".

The MJ-12 Affair



Cooper
By late 1988, joining the MJ-12 bandwagon on the proto-internet, was a right-wing conspiracy theorist William Milton Cooper. His opinion was somewhat different.




The close of 1988 saw American ufology in chaos over the claims and counter-claims about MJ-12. The airing, in October 1988, of the two-hour TV special UFO Coverup Live! only fanned the flames higher….
In it, William Moore and Jaime Shandera .. introduced two men as American intelligence agents. Disguised electronically and given the codenames of ‘Falcon’ [Richard Doty] and ‘Condor’[Robert Collins], the men stated as fact that the American Government was playing host to alien visitors. Memorably, ‘Falcon’ claimed the "grey aliens" liked strawberry ice cream.

Within days of this broadcast William Cooper …. claimed that UFO Coverup - Live, in tandem with the MJ-12 documents, was part of an elaborate disinformation scheme designed to lead UFO researchers away from the ‘real’ situation.

Fortean Times – Don Ecker


Into the 21st century. Grant Cameron dismissed the documents but maintained there is a real MJ-12 group.


....the MJ-12 story will not die … there is a lot of evidence to support it. It is however important to make a distinction between the MJ-12 group which is real, and the MJ-12 document which is almost certainly not a legitimate document…

PresidentialUFO.com


Whilst Nick Redfern, was told by an alleged source, Albert Barker [a so called Psychological Warfare Agent] that the MJ-12 documents are nothing but hoaxes designed to steer people away from what he believes is the truth behind Roswell: “namely, a dark and dubious military experiment in which human guinea-pigs were used”. Whether that story is true and Albert Barker was who he said he was, remains another unproven factoid.

FBI Investigations




A year after the publication of Tim Good’s book. On Sept 15th 1988, the FBI’s counter-intelligence division began to investigate the MJ-12 papers. Prompted by an unnamed AFOSI employee who had obtained copies. The FBI was tasked with establishing if the papers were “still classified”.

The agency learned that the CIA had created spurious UFO stories as deceptive measures against adversaries in the past. It was suspected the MJ-12 papers were a form of retaliation by the Soviets or Chinese. But no evidence supported that avenue of investigation. Nor did their investigations of AFOSI agents reveal the culprits.



….Every one of them, to a man, firmly denied he had a role in writing the MJ-12 documents. And to complicate matters further, many of the agents had suddenly decided to retire. They were now private citizens with, they emphatically emphasized (and on at least one occasion a lawyer was brought in to reiterate), all the constitutional rights of private citizens….
Howard Blum – Out There


AFOSI next advised on November 30th 1988, that the papers were fabricated ordering the FBI to close the investigation as the file was ‘completely bogus’.



No explanation of how this conclusion was arrived at appears in the FBI documents released. Nor was there any indication by AFOSI that they knew who was responsible for the MJ-12 papers.

A paper trail exists that confuses the issue even more.

On December 4th 2000, one of Bill Moore’s ‘contacts’ (or surveillance targets) Lee Graham, filed a FOI request asking for proof that AFOSI knew the documents were faked.


“…If the Air Force knows that the Briefing Document Operation MJ-12 is a fabrication and bogus they would possess records of proof for same …”


The response came from AFOSI dated Feb. 14th 2002.



“The Air Force Office of Special Investigation is not maintaining any files identifiable with your request … We also consulted with other AFOSI offices to determine if the responsive documents existed. AFOSI does not possess any documentation that gave the Air Force permission to circulate the reference documents … we have searched our files and cannot locate any records relating to Operation Majestic 12.”


So the Air Force told the FBI the MJ-12 documents were bogus and to end investigations. Yet also claim to have never had any records relating the them! 


>>>



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:31 AM
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The Prime Suspects


Where does the finger of suspicion lie? What possible motivations could explain the creation of the MJ-12 documents and the accompanying lore that surrounds them?

Did hardened debunkers create the documents in an attempt to ridicule ufology? If they did it seems to have had the opposite effect.

We really need not look much further than certain personnel creating false papers for counter intelligence operations and a bunch of opportunists in ufology using them to further their own personal agendas to mutual benefit.

Bill Moore

In 1982 Bill Moore was already assisting Richard Doty in a counter intelligence operation involving Paul Bennewitz. Moore is said to have asked ufologist Brad Sparks his view on counterfeiting government UFO documents to encourage witnesses to come forward regarding the Roswell incident…



…Moore had suggested as early as 1982 that he wanted to create Roswell documents, thinking that it might open doors that were closed.

Roswell in the 21st Century – Kevin Randle


If true then Moore certainly had motivations for distributing forged UFO documents. He also had dealings with Lee Graham (mentioned earlier). A man who was engineering parts for the Stealth aircraft at Aerojet. Graham was concerned that Moore was passing him classified information and reported this to his supervisor at Aerojet.

Instead of Moore being investigated, the FBI sent Michael Kerby (Director of the Air Force Legislative Liaison Office) to visit Graham. Kerby’s report concluded Graham was an ‘honest, responsible person’ but ‘could be used by others to collect data’.

Then in 1989, Bill Moore effectively burned his bridges with ufology at the summer MUFON symposium in Las Vegas. He stood on stage and openly admitted to co-operating with agents from US military intelligence throughout the 1980s to "get on the inside" of what the US Govt. knew about UFOs. As the venom in the audience grew, he admitted feeding false information to Paul Bennewitz, who eventually suffered a mental breakdown as a result of the disinformation fed to him. When Moore’s talk was complete he left the stage and walked straight out of the hotel. If he knew the MJ-12 documents were counterfeit he never confirmed it.

Fast forward into the 1990s.

In 1995 the US Air Force produced The Roswell Report: Fact versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert . It describes a methodology for uncovering records on the incident which included a review of Bill Moore’s book.





What is curious is that the Roswell Report was overseen by one Col. Richard Weaver. A man who served for 28 years with AFOSI and was stationed in Germany at the same time as Doty. The Roswell Report does not mention Moore’s partner in grime, Richard Doty. A man who supposedly had access to documents detailing the very information Weaver was keen to acquire for his report.

Richard C Doty

Perhaps the scapegoat he claims to be? More likely, a guilty party. Doty was knee deep in the scandal and is certainly a prime suspect. He was investigated a number of times by the FBI.

In 2019 Doty spoke about his involvement at the Nevada Mega UFO conference. Where he once again proclaimed his innocence.



“….in 1987, I was investigated by the FBI for the MJ-12 documents. They claimed, the UFO researchers claimed I released them, I created them. I went through an investigation by the FBI, I was cleared. I took a polygraph, I was cleared. And again in ’89, a different aspect of it became public. The FBI called me, and the same agent who investigated me the first time, and said, “I hate to do this again, but I need to talk to you again about this.” And, and I was cleared obviously on that one.

And then a third time that actually happened, when Bob Collins wrote the book, “Exempt From Disclosure.” He put something in that book, and they thought that information came from me... And they did find out who released that to Robert Collins. That was somebody out of Los Alamos, and they went after that guy, but I didn’t do it.”


Doty never seems far from controversy in the UFO field. He would later be involved with the SERPO hoax with Hal Puthoff and Christopher Green. Some 2 decades after he’d supposedly left his job at AFOSI after being demoted to working in the base canteen as “food service specialist”.



But did he really act alone as a rogue agent creating the MJ-12 documents? It seems more likely Doty was a useful pawn for spreading such disinformation and he did not work alone. He claims he acted completely under orders of his superiors and of course was cleared of any such allegations. Doty now seems to enjoy mingling with personalities of the sci-fi & UFO fraternity and telling tall tales.

>>>



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 11:32 AM
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The MJ-12 Controversy's Impact on Ufology




The FBI investigations were stonewalled and could not determine if AFOSI agents based at Kirtland Air Force had created the MJ-12 documents for absolute certain. But this is where the suspicion lies heaviest. It would appear they began as a part of psychological operations by the US Air Force. (Later documents that appeared in the 1990s may well have come from other sources).

The first such paper can be traced back to 1977/78 – The Ellsworth AFB hoax. The dirt is still under Doty’s finger nails from touching that one. Then the whole thing sprouted arms and legs as personalities in the UFO community began embellishing Roswell and other UFO stories with the stories they’d read in the MJ-12 documents. Perhaps naively and unknowingly in the beginning. But there were still those who chose to run with the fantasy long after reasonable doubt should have kicked in.

The impact on ufology has been damaging and long lasting. Some personalities in the field maintain a cognitive dissonance about it all. One where they believe many of the stories contained in the documents are true whilst agreeing the documents themselves are fraudulent!



Roswell began with a lie told by members of the US military in 1947. Then for thirty years it was paid scant attention until late the 1970s when Stanton Friedman talked to Jesse Marcel, the Roswell AAF base intelligence officer in 1947. At that point there were no aliens involved. Just a confused old man who thought he’d seen some ‘unbreakable’ material scattered across a New Mexico ranch 30 years earlier and decided it was something not of this world.

Going back even further, the MJ-12 papers mention a UFO crash at Cape Girardeau in 1941 which mentions that it started off a back-engineering work on the craft! Surely if that was true there would be no need to instigate Project Sign in 1948 (which remained Top Secret until 1956 when Ed Ruppelt revealed details in his book – The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects).

The 1942 Battle of LA is a UFO story that only began in the late 80s with the MJ-12 papers and revolves around the alleged Marshall/Roosevelt Document.



On March 5, 1942, George C. Marshall writes a top-secret memo to the President, which states: “regarding the air raid over Los Angeles it was learned by Army G2 that Rear Admiral Anderson recovered an unidentified airplane off the coast of California with no bearing on conventional explanation…


Before the MJ-12 hoax there is no mention of the Battle of LA in any UFO literature. Least of all in Projects Grudge, Sign or Blue Book.

Why instigate secret projects to discover what UFOs are when you already have captured them in the early 1940s?

MJ-12 also missed the General Nathan F. Twining memo of September 23rd 1947 which clearly states the US lack of any physical evidence of ‘crashed craft’.



Due consideration must be given the following:-
..................
(2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these subjects.......


But that’s enough for now. Because so much time has already been wasted.

American Ufology has long had an unhealthy symbiotic relationship between popular UFO personalities and shady intelligence operatives. Yet even in the 21st century the injection of false themes and memes that began with MJ-12 are still being recycled today!

A huge UFOtainment industry has arisen in the United States. Built around stories of crashed alien craft, exotic propulsion systems, multiple alien races visiting Earth and alien abductions. One where perpetuating mystery and maintaining belief systems is paramount. Obviously there is money to be made from entertainment. But what is to be gained by a bunch of spooks meddling with the UFO narrative for over 40 years?

What is to be gained from memetic engineering?


Now that’s food for thought surely?



edit on 27/4/2020 by mirageman because: ...



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 12:18 PM
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MM said:




A huge UFOtainment industry has arisen in the United States. Built around stories of crashed alien craft, exotic propulsion systems, multiple alien races visiting Earth and alien abductions. One where perpetuating mystery and maintaining belief systems is paramount. Obviously there is money to be made from entertainment. But what is to be gained by a bunch of spooks meddling with the UFO narrative for over 40 years?


Keep in mind, there is a good amount of Americans who believe in ufo's, and as we all know many, many who have actually seen them as well. Yes, there could be as much dis information and mis information in the areas of ufo's, but I believe some of that is by design, to throw people off. Just my 2 cents worth.

1 in 5 Americans believe aliens have/are visitng earth.
edit on 27pm30pm5091 by data5091 because: insertion.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: data5091

I am not sure what your specific point is data.

UFOs [Unidentifed Flying Objects] do indeed exist and remain unidentified unless they become identified. I am not throwing out every case here. But surely you see a problem with UFOtainment and the very overt operations of some intelligence operatives?

Do you believe in MJ-12 and that every case mentioned in the documents is a genuine contact with aliens or their technology?


edit on 27/4/2020 by mirageman because: ....



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: data5091
Keep in mind, there is a good amount of Americans who believe in ufo's, and as we all know many, many who have actually seen them as well. Yes, there could be as much dis information and mis information in the areas of ufo's, but I believe some of that is by design, to throw people off.


Of course it is, and you just posted to one of the people who distribute that disinformation. Someone who knows that the military lies all the time and yet keeps promoting the lie.

Alien UFO's are real, just as MJ-12 was/is real, though now with different people involved under a different name. They do not want us to know the reality of what is going on so they act like it never happened.

So that is why someone who does not even believe that UFO's are alien has to spend all his time making multiple threads to tell us that they are not alien.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 02:36 PM
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Excellent work, MM - so much food for thought, I'll need to re-read it to take it all in!

A couple of points...


MJ-12 also missed the General Nathan F. Twining memo of September 23rd 1947 which clearly states the US lack of any physical evidence of ‘crashed craft’.


Rather then "missing" the 1947 memo, their response seemed to be: If you can't beat the 1947 memo, just hoax another one - thus the creation of the infamous Cutler-Twining memo dated 1954, allegedly discovered in the National Archives by Moore and Shandera in 1985, who say they found it by rummaging through the 126th box of USAF files. Needless to say, it is generally regarded as a scam.



The following year on May 24th 1989 Bob Lazar, a friend of John Lear, appeared on Las Vegas TV claiming to have worked at Area 51 back engineering alien craft from Zeta Reticuli.


Lazar being friends with the 'eccentric' Mr Lear in the first place is enough to set off every alarm clock of common sense, reinforced by Lazar faking an S-4 payslip as well as his S-4 identity badge with its convenient "MAJ" trimmings...




It is amazing how the fingers of MJ-12 have fiddled their way through many layers of ufology since the early 80s, as well as some of its biggest 'celebrities'.


edit on 27-4-2020 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

So that is why someone who does not even believe that UFO's are alien has to spend all his time making multiple threads to tell us that they are not alien.



As far as I have known MM, he keeps an open mind about whether certain UFO incidents are alien in nature, but is guided by the EVIDENCE rather than taking a story at face value. Indeed, everything he presents is backed up by evidence.

I think the MJ-12 story stinks, and has stunk since the beginning, but that has no bearing on the far more important UFO cases out there that still confound and demand further analysis.

Not forgetting USOs, too - as we discussed recently, it's an area that is criminally under-appreciated and under-investigated, not helped by nonsense such as MJ-12 permeating the alien topic at ground level.

But by all means, feel free to believe the MJ-12 story; meanwhile, I'll simply focus on matters elsewhere to seek answers.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: spiritualarchitect

If it's all disinfo then where is your proof?

Where is your proof alien UFOs are real?



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 06:13 PM
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This short video explains the credulity problem that exists in general but can easily be applied to ufology.




posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Great thread.

Phil Klass had always considered the MJ-12 documents bogus. In a 1999 interview with SKEPTIC magazine, Klass stated that he had proof that these documents were phony.


Skeptic: Let me ask you about the MJ-12 crashed-saucer government documents that Stanton Friedman and others have promoted. You've labeled them a hoax as well. But didn't you lose a $1,000 bet with Friedman over the authenticity of one of them?

Klass: I did pay Friedman $1,000 in 1989 after he successfully met one of my challenges -- but it was not a "bet" or a "wager" because it was risk-free to him. William Moore and Jaime Shandera, who were two of Friedman's partners in promoting the MJ-12 papers, claim that they discovered a memo in the National Archives purportedly written on July 14, 1954, by President Eisenhower's special assistant, Robert Cutler. The fact that Cutler had actually been out of the country on official business on the day the memo -- which, by the way, was unsigned -- allegedly was written indicated that it was counterfeit. But another suspicious aspect to me was that it had been typed in "pica" typeface rather than the smaller "elite" typeface that was used in all the Cutler office letters that I had obtained from the Eisenhower Library archives. So, thinking I had a sure hand, I offered to pay Friedman $100 for every genuine Cutler letter that he could find that was written on a pica-face typewriter -- up to a total of $1,000. To my surprise, Friedman was able to find about 20 such letters, and I promptly sent him my check. But, mind you, this was more than a year after he had refused my proposed "wager" which could have yielded him many thousands of dollars if he were able to demonstrate that the MJ-12 crashed-saucer documents were authentic -- but which could have cost him money if they proved counterfeit. The evidence that they are phony is overwhelming, as I've detailed in numerous articles.



posted on Apr, 28 2020 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: shawmanfromny

My problem with Klass is that he was an outright total debunker. He would not even entertain the thought that even one UFO case was a mystery. Which taints some of his more solid work.

Although I agree with his view that MJ-12 was phony. Its tendrils have stretched into much of the lore. A lore that is protected by certain big personalities in the UFO field because their major source of income relies on preaching to people who believe it. Then we have more muddying of the waters by the intel folks for their own agendas. You can trace it back all the way to 1947 with the Maury Island case. But the mud really stuck in the 1980s.

Clearing away this mud is difficult because it meets with resistance from both sides. Even though it would give a clearer picture.



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 04:58 AM
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In my opinion the MJ-12 skeptics and the MJ-12 believers are both partially correct.I think that the vast majority if not all of the Majestic 12 documents were indeed manufactured but that they contain both real historical UFO information and disinformation.Truth mixed with fiction,high volume/high quality work mixed in with stupid/silly flaws (by design) to feed both sides of the argument.To me almost certainly created by a PhD level team with a background in intelligence,most likely with access to original,highly classified UFO files.


The reason for the release is of course debatable.Were these documents part of a bigger operation?Was the resurrection of Roswell in the late 70's green lighted by the powers that be?Did they want Area 51's existence to be revealed to the public in 1988 via UFO cover-up live TV show?Did they task Lazar to release his story and make the public familiar with the concept of reverse engineering?Were they laying the foundation for a Disclosure that,according to Dolan and Greer's sources,was supposed to take place in the early 90's but was cancelled because of the attempted coup and fall of the Soviet Union?Only they know.



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 08:18 AM
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I looked at the MJ-12 family of UFO disinformation back in the 1990's.
The Sanborn Sculpture at the "old" CIA building was the only thread that held the conspiracy together for me and my J.
Full disclosure will only come when they disclose it their way.
If you aren't a math Geek you are going to have some difficulty, although you can do part four on your fingers.



posted on Apr, 29 2020 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: Tinel
Were they laying the foundation for a Disclosure that,according to Dolan and Greer's sources,was supposed to take place in the early 90's but was cancelled because of the attempted coup and fall of the Soviet Union?Only they know.


Likewise, the old story goes that the foundations for disclosure were going to be laid out by the 1974 TV documentary, 'UFOs: Past, Present and Future', presented by Rod Serling (fresh from 'Night Gallery' but still an icon from 'The Twilight Zone' that ended 10 years earlier). The documentary won an award, but the crucial piece of genuine footage of an alien landing at Holloman AFB in 1971 - promised by the USAF to filmmaker Robert Emenegger - never materialised.

The rumour is that the bad timing of Watergate threw a spanner into the disclosure works.

Whatever the truth, it's a romping good yarn, though.


edit on 29-4-2020 by ConfusedBrit because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2020 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I'll pop in and say hello.

Linda Moulten Howe has said that she was told about a SERPO-like incident by Bob Emengger.

It's worth looking into the DAVA members who later promised more footage to Jacques Vallee and Hynek. They were, according to Forbidden Science Meyer acolytes and I want to say one was Reagan's former agent or something.

Then we have the "live alien" interview that was clearly going intended to follow on from UFO Coverup Live! (initially supposed to have a live alien interview I believe).

To figure that out, you'd need to learn how it could be possible in the 1980s to create a synthetic "alien" that could respond to live questions in a controlled environment. Then look for a special effects company that could do that.

Remember though, Linda got "interfered with" after creating a cattle mutilation film. Sure, she was promised Roswell footage, but it was the animals that got here there IMO.

Paul Bennewitz? Attended a cattle mutilation conference to see part of an altimeter Gave Valdez found, I believe.

Boom. Same story.

TLDR. In my opinion, someone created a massive chain of fake evidence, documents and narrative that was being drip fed.

Whatever version of this story you are familiar with - it begins with a collection of impacts around Roswell. The ranch, corona, gran quevero.

From this basic narrative, a science fiction story emerges. Whoever created it spent a LONG time on it. Personally, I think it was created in the 60s.



posted on May, 1 2020 @ 12:02 AM
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Who even talks about MJ-12 anymore? We never see it mentioned in present day discussions. Perhaps the occasional reference from time to time but I don't recall anyone lately referencing it with any level of sincerity.

It's old stuff no one talks about anymore.

The new narrative these days is being driven by Christopher Mellon who oddly enough no one has ever done a deep dive on. Interesting that Christopher Mellon is attached to TTSA. The Mellon family has a greater net worth than the Kennedy's and Rockefeller's combined. Bank of New York Mellon manages assets in excess of $1.7 trillion worldwide.

That's interesting.



posted on May, 1 2020 @ 04:27 AM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit


originally posted by: Tinel
Were they laying the foundation for a Disclosure that,according to Dolan and Greer's sources,was supposed to take place in the early 90's but was cancelled because of the attempted coup and fall of the Soviet Union?Only they know.


Likewise, the old story goes that the foundations for disclosure were going to be laid out by the 1974 TV documentary, 'UFOs: Past, Present and Future', presented by Rod Serling (fresh from 'Night Gallery' but still an icon from 'The Twilight Zone' that ended 10 years earlier). The documentary won an award, but the crucial piece of genuine footage of an alien landing at Holloman AFB in 1971 - promised by the USAF to filmmaker Robert Emenegger - never materialised.

The rumour is that the bad timing of Watergate threw a spanner into the disclosure works.


It is interesting that whenever we seem to be moving in the direction of a possible Disclosure something huge happens that makes things very complicated for such an outcome to occur:"UFOs: Past, Present and Future"/Emenegger- enter Watergate.Resurrection of Roswell/MJ 12 docs/insider backed UFO TV shows/Lazar and Area 51- enter fall of communism and of the USSR.Corso/Firmage/Greer Disclosure Project and National Press Club event- enter 9/11.TTSA,GW Bush,HRC,Obama UFO statements,US Space Force,MSM taking the UFO Phenomenon more seriously- enter Coronavirus.Coincidence?


edit on 1-5-2020 by Tinel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2020 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: Case74282

Perhaps it's not clear. Or maybe you were confused by thinking about Chris Mellon at the wrong moment. But the thread isn't about who talks about MJ-12 any more. It covers how various mythologies have infected ufology and a sizeable minority of gullible Americans actually believe those myths that come straight out of the time period when MJ-12 papers were being spread around.

Basically the mythology that there is a coverup deep within the US government to conceal the existence of an alien presence on Earth. One where saucers crash to Earth, humans are abducted and technology has been acquired. Those ideas all come straight out of that time period and intel agents, popular UFOtainers and various social media 'influencers' today continue to promote those memes and themes as if they are true.



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