Waiting for a Vaccine?? Don't bother

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

All this talk about a "vaccine". I honestly don't think most people understand what a "vaccine" really is. The way the MSM is throwing the word around it's being touted as the 'Holy Grail' against this virus.

A vaccine doesn't treat a virus, a vaccine (in theory) prevents someone from contracting a virus in the first place. A vaccine isn't going to cure those already sick, that's not what vaccines do. I don't think most are understanding this.

IF a vaccine for CV-19 were ever to be successfully developed tomorrow it would be much the same as your run of the mill flu-shot. People will go in to see their doctor and they'll be asked if they want this season's flu shot. Some will say yes, but many will say no. That's it. That's all there is.

Coronavirus has been around for decades, and CV-19 is just another permutation of it, a more deadly one, but just another permutation all the same. In fact, it's so frequent they had to assign a number to it "19" (or 2019's version). They've been trying to develop a 'vaccine' for Coronavirus for years, long before CV-19.

Polio is/was a virus, but it doesn't mutate like Coronavirus does. Polio was around for thousands of years before a vaccine was developed for it. So, a handful of vaccines work for diseases like polio, but even if they develop a vaccine for CV-19, like the flu shot, next year things might be different and it's no longer CV-19, but maybe CV-21 or whatever.

The world didn't stop for Polio, and the world shouldn't stop for CV-19. If people are sitting around waiting for the 'cure-all' vaccine, and they're not going to go outside until there is one, well, they might be waiting a very long time! And, the vaccine, if found, will not help those who are sick. Other drugs may ease the symptoms, but there is no cure, and this is true of viruses in general.

Comparisons are made daily between COVID-19 and the Spanish Flu. It's important to understand the Spanish Flu didn't end because someone developed a vaccine. It ended because the virus mutated to a less lethal strain.

Hopefully someday they will develop a vaccine for Coronavirus, I sincerely hope this. In the meantime though we can't wait on this like it's the panacea which will save mankind, because it just isn't.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Are.. Are you blaspheming the Almighty Vaccine?!

Next up, youll probably be telling us that the Almighty Testing is not the answer to all of our problems!

Hes a witch!

Seriously though, many are completely aware of the efficacy rates of even flu vaccines and yet still think of The Vaccine for this as literal nectar of the gods.

It isnt.

We do, however, have quite a lot of case reports of treatments that appear to be highly effective. RdRPs inhibitors (RNA dependent RNA polymerases) seem to be working, and will likely continue to work across mutations due to the nature of the mechanism.

Id suspect that anything that does similar (like targeting cleaving) would be promising too. But, they are discarded and dismissed because the arent The Vaccine. Though.. Ultomiris may be promising given how extraordinarily expensive it is. Might make more money than a vaccine, even.

As a mechanism, they also arent necessarily preventative in a single dose (like an IDEAL vaccine might be), but such mechanisms are incredibly promising far beyond this single virus as well.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Great points, all.

Folks just need to remember, a vaccine is different from a 'cure'. You can't get the virus, and then be administered a vaccine to cure it. Doesn't work that way.

So, what people should really be focused on is not a 'vaccine', but rather 'treatment drugs', and the two are very different breeds of cat.

ETA - And yeah, testing is not the answer! LOL!

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Serdgiam

Great points, all.

Folks just need to remember, a vaccine is different from a 'cure'. You can't get the virus, and then be administered a vaccine to cure it. Doesn't work that way.

So, what people should really be focused on is not a 'vaccine', but rather 'treatment drugs', and the two are very different breeds of cat.

Yeah, I dont know where the lines got mixed up with "vaccines," but folks have a real strange perspective on them.

Personally, Im not sure we should even look at them as option until we really get our collective immune systems as strong as possible for a baseline.

Something that is very, very frequently ommited in modern medicine. To be fair, its more profitable to let that stuff slide. Thats not snark, just pragmatism. The abstract costs are staggering though..

And yeah, testing is not the answer! LOL!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Sadly all this talk of vaccines is merely a cover for various nefarious things. We have now been told here in the UK that most of the lockdown will have to continue UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR !! Unless there is a vaccine and we have documents to prove it such as the immunity passport they are looking into. Never, in all my years on this planet, have I heard something so outlandish and unreal as this. If you refuse to vaccinate, you don't work simple.
What a bloody marvellous idea

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
Would you post a link that says what you have stated in your post about UK lockdown please?

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
So the only real alternative is the touted herd immunity,

Natural herd immunity is the only real herd immunity.

Vaccines do not and can not achieve anything approaching herd immunity - and that is if you trust the vaccines and/or tptb who are providing them. Personally, I don't trust them enough to listen to their recommendations for toothpaste (they recommend ones with the rat poison called fluoride), let alone something they want to inject directly into my or my childrens bloodstreams.

but that would involve many many more deaths and an appropriate immune response which so far with covid-19 most patients immune systems are simply not responding as they should and as stated above, can in fact worsen the situation

You couldn't be more wrong.

All that is needed is to start using high dose IV vitamin C with adequate zinc, then recommend reasonable supplementation protocols for a 'pandemic' situation (ie, for a few weeks/month or two at most).

Guess what? They don't want to do this, because it would reveal their criminal culpability ion the deaths of millions over the last 5o years, caused by their refusal to use them, even when they knew (or should have known) that they would save all of these lives.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
A vaccine doesn't treat a virus, a vaccine (in theory) prevents someone from contracting a virus in the first place.

Ahem... this is simply not correct.

What a vaccine is [claimed to do is to stimulate the body's natural immune system to tproduce antibodies, then, the body's immune system is theoretically capable of handling the virus the next time it comes around.

The vaccine, itself, does nothing, other than stimulate the immune system, and it only works via two aspects of the immune system (innate and adaptive)... it only provides - at best - a very limited potential 'immunity'.

The fact is, there are far, far better and totally safe ways to naturally boost the immune system, and acquire the antibodies naturally, using the full immune system response. This also results in benefits extended to any other viruses that may come along from known ones (influenza) to novel ones.

a reply to: tanstaafl

You seem to be disagreeing, but you're agreeing with pretty much everything I said (????)

You don't get the flu and then go in for a flu shot. It's the other way around.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
The Guardian

The Sun

The Independant

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: tanstaafl
You seem to be disagreeing, but you're agreeing with pretty much everything I said (????)

More your wording I guess.

The vaccine itself doesn't prevent anything. It stimulates the immune system.

It is the immune system that does the heavy lifting (prevents or modulates the reaction to the virus).

You don't get the flu and then go in for a flu shot. It's the other way around.

That is correct - you get the flu shot, then come down with the flu.

Flu shots are just coin for the drug pushers....

a reply to: tanstaafl

The vaccine does it job by introducing antigens and "training" the body to respond appropriately
so yes vaccines work to prevent diseases. Its not complicated, its their job without the vaccine molecules the immune system may not create the correct response.

They need to make a plug in vaccine for coronavirus.

Use MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV, and covid 19 that they can plug in any new future coronavirus into a vaccine.

This may in the future cut the time to create a vaccine for any new coronaviruses from over a year to 2 to 4 months because they will have already done phase 1 and phase 2 testing and can go derectly to phase three testing just by plugging in the new coronavirus.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

To expect and hope researchers can create the very 1st coronavirus vaccine for a NEW coronavirus within 12months or less is absolutely ridiculous

Thank Heavens you weren't around during " The Battle Of Britain " in 1940. The RAF where grossly outnumbered by The Luftwaffe. The odds where greatly stacked against them, but they perceived and won the day.

You would have just held you hands up.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: tanstaafl
The vaccine does it job by introducing antigens and "training" the body to respond appropriately

Yes, as I sais - that is called 'stimulating the immune system'.

Without the immune system, the virus does absolutely nothing.

so yes vaccines work to prevent diseases. Its not complicated, its their job

Again, no. Without the immune system, the vaccine does nothing.

without the vaccine molecules the immune system may not create the correct response.

Actually, without the vaccine, the full capabilities of the immune system are called into play.

The difference is, vaccines may result in some minor/temporary benefit (if you happen to get a dose that isn't tainted/corrupted), but when encountered naturally, you get full/real life long immunity (ie, chicken pox, measles, etc).

a reply to: tanstaafl

I think vaccines are this wonderful concept that went horribly awry, at some point.

I think that, for general broad vaccination, we really need to focus on getting immune systems as strong as we can, collectively, then possibly consider their application and use. Thats a totally different paradigm, however I have noticed that many seem to think that is the paradigm that actually exists now (its not).

Doing otherwise has always seemed a recipe for disaster, imo. Quite profitable though, and with a lot less liability than pharmaceuticals.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Again, no. Without the immune system, the vaccine does nothing.

C'mon...you're really splitting hairs here to be right.

Without an immune system...everyone is DEAD. So there's no one to vaccinate.

Now, what was your point again???

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: tanstaafl
C'mon...you're really splitting hairs here to be right.

I guess that's what it looks like to you, but no, I'm really not.

Without an immune system...everyone is DEAD. So there's no one to vaccinate.

Now, what was your point again???

That is my point.

That, and that if the immune system is fully capable of doing what vaccines do, but doing it far better, then...

Why do we even want vaccines?

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: tanstaafl
I think vaccines are this wonderful concept that went horribly awry, at some point.

I've said many times I think it may actually be possible to create extremely safe, possibly even reasonably effective vaccines.

The problem at this point, though, is, it would take an act of God for things to change to the point there is even a remote chance I would possibly start to trust tptb with respect to the life and health of myself and my family.

I think that, for general broad vaccination, we really need to focus on getting immune systems as strong as we can, collectively, then possibly consider their application and use. Thats a totally different paradigm, however I have noticed that many seem to think that is the paradigm that actually exists now (its not).

Doing otherwise has always seemed a recipe for disaster, imo. Quite profitable though, and with a lot less liability than pharmaceuticals.

And yet they chose to pursue exemption of liability for vaccines, instead of drugs... guess that goes in the 'things that make you go 'hmmmmm'' category...

a reply to: tanstaafl
But clearly, in many many cases, the immune system is NOT capable of doing what vaccines do HENCE THE NEED FOR VACCINES
Jeez you're hard work!