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what do hardcore bible believers say about this???

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posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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A better analogy would be "It's like trying to use ketchup to prove there are tomatos." But I sort of get what you are saying.


Your right that is a better analogy. I was eating hot dogs b4 so




posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by freddieb
It will never cease to amaze me how those that are hard core bible believers, claim that the bible is the literal word of God until they are shown something that doesn't add up. Then, the response is to simply ignore what they have been shown. Blind faith, truly is Blind isn't it.


Post about something "that doesn't add up".

BTW, I'm not a hardcore Bible believer.

I'm a scientist.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 08:47 AM
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They see all I agree with you but let me tell you this Forget it you are just waisting your time. The Brainwashed belivers will find a way,they allways do,you know why because they simply dont want to belive there is no god, period.
I mean look at this Croat56,Serbs killed and destroyed half of his country commited horriblle massacers,but he still belives in the good of god.God probably had some greater plan even do so many people were tourtured and slain lost their kin and property but god allowed all that because he is good and he had a Greater plan.These people are braindead so why bother!



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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who's to say that evolution isnt part of god's plan? do you have a problem with authority? is that why you want to prove god doesnt exist? or is it that you dont want to be responsable for your actions later? whatever your motivation is not my concern.

Evolution is part of gods plan... why you say? well he is a perfect being... this world was created for a fixed duration as the bible states it will be bathed in fire and then perfected. so evolution is part of it's survival over the years. so his children can live and progress.

god is not falable, does god live via eternal laws? yes....

i seen the comment "christian fool" i know christians out there that are genius, brillian scientists and brilliant men. who have great and strong faith in the lord thy god. weather you want to beleive or not you have a god, it's your freedom of choice , free agency you choose not to beleive. that is your downfall. and will be your eternal failure. christ said not all those who say lord lord will enter into the kingdom of god. christ is forgiving but you have the free choice and agency to choose. he did die for our sins for those who will beleive in him and repent, but didnt die so you can live a life of perversion and then save you in the end. what glory is there in that? why should you enter the kingdom of god with people who had faith and lived right? where is the justice for those who did live right?

in first corinthians chapter 15 is a section that speaks of three glories, three different resurrections. those who do not enter the kingdom of god will enter the lower kingdoms, will obtain resurrected bodies. but will not progress for eternity.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


for those who beleive that evolution was the begining will inherit a perfect body but a body that cannot enter the kingdom of god.

i wish you luck that your ignorance may save you. that the savior can save you. but your free agency ties christs hands from saving you.

GOOD LUCK.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Reading this topic prompted me to write. I AM a born again Christian. I believe God CREATED EVERYTHING. I take the Bible at FACE value. This is simply my belief. I believe that one day I will go to heaven because of my personal acceptance of Jesus Christ as my saviour. That being said, I am a learned man. I've been to college, have a degree in computer science but I still believe God created us. Remember.. The FEAR of God is the Beginning of Knowledge.

As for me.. the posts here knocking and slagging Christians and Christianity don't phase me at all. I respect ALL peoples opinions.. right or wrong. Instead of getting into a lengthy discussion/argument.. I ask you to read the book 'Show me God' by Fred Heeren. It shows scientists, astronomers, other learned men who believe in God after trying to explain why the universe is, etc.

Sincerely,
BAE



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 06:14 PM
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See your arguments are knocking themselves aside! How can you say hardcore believers will find excuses while you are finding excuses not to believe in the facts that actually add up. BTW, I am not responding to the most recent post but the one two or three posts up. And also, the Bible was written by man and so has may be a few flaws, but nothing like totally contradictory EXCEPT for the parts in the Old Testament which portray God as a Killing God. I disagree with those parts.

[edit on 18-3-2005 by The_Dark_Man]



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 07:15 PM
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John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and he hardened their heart; Lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, And should turn, And I should heal them.


It is expected, just as Pharaoh did.....



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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In case nobody has mentioned this...evolution and creation cannot both be true...it's either one or the other baby...

Here's why...evolution is built on the theory of "survival of the fittest"...and in the Biblle, the pre-Adamic Garden of Eden world had no death...no survival of the fittest...and hence no evolution. Even meat-eating dinasaurs have no place in pre-Adamic earth.

So either the garden of Eden was millions of years ago or scientists are way off about the age of the dinasaurs.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Geneticus


So either the garden of Eden was millions of years ago or scientists are way off about the age of the dinasaurs.


Interesting view really, and that dating thing yo know the C14, doesn't count that it never rained before the Deluge........



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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Seems like all of these arguments about christianity come back to the same old thing.. a comparison between the bible and the theory of evolution.

One requires a belief in fabulous stories, the other in a belief in fabulous theories. What will you believe?

One address a range of things including ingredients on how to live forever, the other offers some speculative science with some fossel examples to come up with theories of the past and the origions of the earth.

One tells of the future and what to expect, the other can not and will not address it.

They both require a belief.

The author of this post has stated there are some new animals running around. Where are they? Show me.



posted on Mar, 18 2005 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by Pretorian03
They see all I agree with you but let me tell you this Forget it you are just waisting your time. The Brainwashed belivers will find a way,they allways do,you know why because they simply dont want to belive there is no god, period.
I mean look at this Croat56,Serbs killed and destroyed half of his country commited horriblle massacers,but he still belives in the good of god.God probably had some greater plan even do so many people were tourtured and slain lost their kin and property but god allowed all that because he is good and he had a Greater plan.These people are braindead so why bother!


Brainwashed? I assure you I am in no way brainwashed. Infact Ive gone through times when I thought there was no God. Yes the serbs did horrible things, but thats not Gods fault. Thats MANS fault. God gave us free will. Its not his fault we do horrible things with it.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by Geneticus
In case nobody has mentioned this...evolution and creation cannot both be true...it's either one or the other baby...


Urmm... actually, evolution has long been proven false.

BUT there still remains 2 questions:

1. Were humans simply created by "regular" extra-terrestials?

2. Were humans created by a higher being named Yahweh?



Originally posted by Geneticus
Here's why...evolution is built on the theory of "survival of the fittest"...and in the Biblle, the pre-Adamic Garden of Eden world had no death...no survival of the fittest...and hence no evolution. Even meat-eating dinasaurs have no place in pre-Adamic earth.


Real quick:

1. A Bat is an animal that is blind, and flies around in the darkness. It hunts its prey in darkness. It uses radar to pinpoint is prey so it can eat it and live. If it can't find its prey, the Bat dies.

2. The first Bat would have had to instantly have perfect radar or else it would die. It is 1 million percent impossible for some creature to evolve into the first bat, and in addition, evolve a perfect radar. Evolution takes millions of years. No bat can go millions of years without food!!!!! The first bat would have to mutate sonar instantly, on the first try!
I call these "Life or Death examples that blow apart evolution." There are more of them too.


Originally posted by Geneticus
So either the garden of Eden was millions of years ago or scientists are way off about the age of the dinasaurs.


You need to study the Bible. Just as you would dissect and study any other book. The Bible talks about how Eden was created, then re-created a second time. The first time Eden was created, was millions, billions, trillions, of years before Adam and Eve were made. There were towns, cities, civilizations on Earth. The Son of Dawn ruled planet Earth, and all the civilizations on it.
It's all there in the Bible, in the biography of the Son of Dawn. He later started the war in heaven (which obviously happened before Adam and Eve), and lost that war. But the result was the complete destruction of all life on earth, including all the civilizations. Which the Bible talks about.
Yahweh had to re-make the Earth all over again. Re-make humans all over again. Adam and Eve are the 2nd time around the Earth was re-populated.

The problem is modern priests, rabbi, clergy, and the church, are all false. They missinform. This started with Roman Emperor Constitine who went from killing followers of Jesus, to suddently saying he was now a follower of Jesus. He's responsible for adding a pagen sun worshiping day and renaming it Christmas, for the idea Satan has horns, red skin, pointy tail, a church heiarchy - biships, cardnails, pope, erasing God's name from the Bible, and much more.



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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And the guy who started this topic... named "they see ALL" still hasn't posted any info about all these "new animals".



posted on Mar, 19 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by OpenSecret2012
Real quick:

1. A Bat is an animal that is blind, and flies around in the darkness. It hunts its prey in darkness. It uses radar to pinpoint is prey so it can eat it and live. If it can't find its prey, the Bat dies.

2. The first Bat would have had to instantly have perfect radar or else it would die. It is 1 million percent impossible for some creature to evolve into the first bat, and in addition, evolve a perfect radar. Evolution takes millions of years. No bat can go millions of years without food!!!!! The first bat would have to mutate sonar instantly, on the first try!
I call these "Life or Death examples that blow apart evolution." There are more of them too.


Yes the smallest single cell animal has 20+ parts, all are needed for it to live, oops there goes evolution right out the door.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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As far as I am aware, Evoultion as a theory is healthy and vibrant, still one of the major aspects of modern biology. I am quite sure on the contrary that it hasn't been proven false, however it has been noted that it is going to be quite difficult to prove it. It's essence is correct, but it is still missing some key components.

Creationism however, according to some, is already proven because it is in the Bible. That is laughable really. These same people expect strict adherence to scientific research when dealing with theories that may infringe upon the Bible, but need nothing done to try to prove their own flimsy theories.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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Here is something to chew on with the evolution vs. creation debate...Dr. Kent Hovind has made an offer to anyone willing to take time out of their normal lives. How about $250,000 dollars to prove creation did not happen. I personally believe in creation. If you are willing to take time and check this site. www.drdino.com... I have met Dr. Hovind and attended a seminar. How about taking time to research your arguements and refrain from cutting down those who believe differently.The fall of civilization is when no one is civil anymore.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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hmmm not sure that a bat uses "radar"...

i think it probably uses some sort of echo location much like a dolphin....

but to say that any creature must instantly evolve an attribute is to miss the point of evolution. Advances are incrementally advantageous and favour those creatures that are able to exploit those advances. If a bat were to have a mutated genetic advantage of hands - to stretch a point- but it got eaten on its first flight out of the cave then tough luck - that advantage is dead before it could be passed on.

if however it had a mutated gene that allowed it to click and recieve a picture of its prey this would give it an advatage over its fellow bats and if it was lucky enough to breed and pass on this trait then future bats would have this advantage and out perform other non sonar bats.

lets not get drawn into the erroneous picture that "this is a bat and this has always been how bats were".... are we saying that all the creatures that currently exist have always existed?...



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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How do you know bats were blind 10 million years ago. I don't know this. Of course my suggestion isn't supposed to prove anything, it is merely a suggestion just as you saying the bat had to be instantly like a modern bat or it would die.

Here is a evolutionary scenario:

The bat has sight but larger predators force it to find sanctuary within caves and other dark places in order not to be killed. It also becomes incrasingly nocturnal because of this.
Over time living in dark spaces and being nocturnal(thousands of years) some bats a mutated that have a higher sense of hearing and worsen eyesight, however they perform better at navigating, avoiding predators and finding food. They mate, these genes get passed on.

Because their offspring out perform and outlive many of the now genetically inferior sighted bats, more of the population begins to outbreed and become the new genetically distinct sightless bat, with a radar like hearing. Thereby over thousands and thousands of years one animal evovles to meet the problems it faces in its environment and be more successful.

Another beautiful example that only took a couple generations to see, were a certain breed of moths in England that were observed during the advent of the indutrial revolution. They were at first a pure white colour, then as the levels of pollution increased in urban areas, burning of coal, smokestacks etc. The moth was seen over time to be a darker colour to match the smoke stained trunks of certain tree trunks. Whereas the same species were still pure white in the rural, cleaner areas. And no the moths themselves were not dirty, they had evolved so that their outer colourings would camouflage themselves, the darker moths did not get eaten were able to breed and therefore became the dominant genetics in the urban moth population. This is how evolution works. It isn't fully proven as a theory, but I find it hard to dispute.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 10:03 PM
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Just to clerify, I think evolution is true and that it is the hand of God. He just loves creating things.



posted on Mar, 20 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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UPDATE

in the bible it says that God created man FIRST (after making earth obviously) and THEN animals...

NOW, we have PROOF that some "animals" lived BEFORE us...

what do hardcore believers say about this???





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