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NEWS: Woman Strangles Infant Son to Death Because "He Was the Devil."

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posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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A woman named Helen Kirk was arrested after strangling her 3 year old son to death, in Carver Massachussetts. The woman had a history of mental illness and her friends said she had been acting oddly in the days leading up to the murder. She said after the incident that she was following signs, and that her son was the devil. She has been sent to a nearby hospital for evaluation, to see if she is competent to stand trial.
 



enterprise.southofboston.com
Helen Kirk sat in the Carver police cruiser mumbling as rescue workers whisked her 31/2-year-old son Justin to Jordan Hospital in Plymouth, frantically trying to revive him.

"Signs, following signs," Kirk was heard mumbling from inside the police cruiser Tuesday morning, according to documents filed in court. "Justin is the devil."

Her attorney, Jack Atwood, now says the 33-year-old mother of two was mentally ill that day when she strangled her youngest child in his bedroom as others in the family's home at 289 Meadow St., Carver, slept. Atwood said he plans to pursue an insanity defense.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This is the latest in a long string of infanticides committed by mothers. What is the root of this behavior? Is it a displacement of agression that targets the weakest in our society? Is it the action of a deranged person pure and simple, or is there a larger societal illness that needs to be confronted?

Writing off incidents like this is a mistake. We shouldn't just say things like "it happens", we should try to uncover why things like this happen, so we can combat the sources of this sickness. It is not an isolated incident, and though this story will, like hundreds of other similar stories, probably fail to make the national news, they are happening, and we do need to deal with this as a society.

I personally believe that our society has become so twisted in its perceptions, so cavalier in its cruelty, that we are literally making ourselves insane. The problem will only get worse unless the disease is treated. I don't believe the answer is incarceration, and I don't think a War on Mental Illness is appropriate, but I do think something needs to be done. Perhaps the sheer magnitude of different stresses has overwhelmed some people's brittle consciousness. So I ask you ATS, what is to be done about the problem? Any suggestions?




posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 10:22 PM
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I have never being a fan of the mental-illness defense. Society treats everyone equally, to suggest that we are now under more stress might be true, but it is misleading.

We are now programmed not to cope with stress, we have soft ways out like seeing shrinks and such etc. I mean, have you ever heard of people needing to see shrinks or committing suicide in great numbers in the past?

It's not that our society has put extra pressure on us, it's just that we are now coping with it in a bad way, we don't take any responsibility for our own actions.

eg. The people who sue MacDonalds because they eat it and got fat, i mean, nuff said.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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The immediate response should of course be an evaluation of her, and hopefully find her just competent enough to stand trial and be sentenced to death. Being off your rocker shouldnt be an excuse for killing people, it doesnt change the fact that someone dies by your hand, so therefore you should still be dealt with accordingly.

Since she had a history of mental illness and was even acting out of the norm I wonder why nobody bothered to step in or say something. Better yet why the heck are people with mental illnesses allowed to be near children at all, their own or even someone elses.

In the long run we need to pick apart these kinds of peoples brains and figure out what fuses blew and caused them to take it upon themselves to kill for such odd reasons. There has to be some cause for all this, but I guess between developing Cialis and Botox the medical community has failed to address this far more pressing but less fashionable issue.



posted on Mar, 13 2005 @ 12:41 AM
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alternateheaven
Your suggestion to keep all people defined by the government as mentally ill away from their children, and indeed all children in general might sound good to you, until you're the one declared insane for no reason. Be careful. Be very, very careful. If you're going to trust the government with the ability to ciminalize people for the way they were born, you're entering well worn fascist territory. You have been warned.

rapier
Society does NOT treat everyone equally, I can't imagine how anyone could think that. Have you ever lived in the ghetto? Have you ever lived in the Hollywood hills? Do you know the difference? Do you know the statistics on prisoners in America? Do you realize the double standard in the difference between how white collar and blue collar criminals are pursued, charged, and sentenced? There is a pronounced discrepancy in the treatment of the rich and the poor in this country. We live in a modern variety caste system, and anyone who doesn't know that is probably not very informed, or, well informed and incapable of critical thinking.



posted on Mar, 13 2005 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Do you realize the double standard in the difference between how white collar and blue collar criminals are pursued, charged, and sentenced? There is a pronounced discrepancy in the treatment of the rich and the poor in this country.


I think you answered your own question, WyrdeOne.......I would bet that a look at infanticide in America would show that it is mainly committed by lower class, less educated people.......

The answer is education, but education would lead to less ignorance, more constructive participation, and that doesn't translate into good business acumen for those currently conducting it...

I have to say that this is a disheartning story.....I can't believe it still happens today. Seeing religious overtones in the motivations of socio/psychopathic behaviour contributes to my utter distaste for it.......



posted on Mar, 13 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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OOOhhhh How I do wonder if that lady were on any pharma drugs... like perhaps those really great Anti-depressants.. lovely what money does ..



posted on Mar, 13 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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I would have thought that this case would have gotten more publicity but I guess it didnt. Did they say what kind of church that the woman attended? I just saw that nasty Law & Order episode about the Charles Manson kinda church. Nasty group of folks they are.



posted on Mar, 13 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Forget about finding out a why this woman did what she did. Kill her. Just kill her and you stop her ability to produce offspring and pass her sickness onto another generation. It's simple. Cut off the disease at the source. Sound cold? Sorry, I don't care. I might have had a slightly less harsh opinion 2 yrs ago, but I now have a 15 month old son now which has completely changed my views on parents and their actions, and can't tolerate this kind of action, no matter what the mental condition of the person is.



posted on Mar, 13 2005 @ 06:29 PM
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No, a better solution is to change our genetic disposition to such things, if the technology permits of course. Once we discover those genetically disposed to such behaviour, we can hopefully treat them.



posted on Mar, 13 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
rapier
Society does NOT treat everyone equally, I can't imagine how anyone could think that. Have you ever lived in the ghetto? Have you ever lived in the Hollywood hills? Do you know the difference? Do you know the statistics on prisoners in America? Do you realize the double standard in the difference between how white collar and blue collar criminals are pursued, charged, and sentenced? There is a pronounced discrepancy in the treatment of the rich and the poor in this country. We live in a modern variety caste system, and anyone who doesn't know that is probably not very informed, or, well informed and incapable of critical thinking.


We live and die by our actions in this world. Sure, we are born into different families, rich and poor, powerful and weak. I, myself, come from a migrant family, but to suggest that this holds you back from being the best that you can be is plain wrong.

If you are born into a tough situation, then you should work harder to make it better. How many people who started dynasties came from rich backgrounds? Almost none, we struggle our way through life so that future generations can benefit.



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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mpeake
What you're saying makes no sense. If we don't identify the problem, we'll never be able to find solutions. There's something fundamentally wrong with our society; it's driving people insane. We need to find out what that something is, and put a stop to it. Alternately we could just throw up our hands and come to terms with the fact that a large number of the rats in this particular maze we live in would just as soon cannibalize as socialize.

navajoprophet
Manson was a charismatic guy who made politicians, law enforcement, and bankers nervous. If he was born a millenia earlier he would have been in the runnings for the title of 'christ.' He also happens to be a very inteligent guy. Inteligence and madness seem to go hand in hand don't they?

rapier
I think you're right and wrong with your last statement. Yes, we do struggle for future generations. That's life, granted. I fine with that, and actually I care more about the future than the present. But..the odds are severe in favor of the house in this game. You can win by playing it straight and tight, it is possible, but it's just like the lottery. You've got a better chance of getting hit by a bus.

Most people who are born into tough situations fail, some flourish extraordinarly well. It depends on the character of the individual, and their suitability in their environment. Right now, we live in a cut throat environment, America is capitalism, and capitalism means you need money to survive. That means if you would kill to eat in the wild, you should be prepared to kill for money within a capitalist society. It's simple logic.

So we all need to be brutal to be efficient. Except there's a problem, we're an ostensibly moral society, and our laws reflect that. If you kill, or steal, or cheat, society demands you be punished. Punished for surviving? That's ludicrous, and people who take our societal double standard seriously, or rather fail to perceive the double standard, do rather poorly. It's like boxing with gloves on against a bare knuckler.

The ones who do best in America are the violent, greedy, perceptive, charismatic, criminal liars who are good at not getting caught. Think about the way we're affecting evolution.



posted on Mar, 14 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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Hey this debate kind of reminds me of the alignments in AD&D.

Like you have your Lawful Good people who believe in the Law as being absolute and Lawful Evil people utilising the law for their own purposes.

Anyway, i agree with most of what you are saying except the last bit about our genes. I don't recall that our genes have ever being linked to morality, i believe morals are more to do with the environment rather then the individual genes.

I hope not anyway, it would be a "Brave New World" if we had good genes and evil genes. Even if they exist, i will hope that those type of genes are never discovered.



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