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US soldier admits they massacred innocents

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posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by dev_add
And do not say they did, If you were not there and you say otherwise...
just stand by and shut the F^&* up.


Apparently you like to contradict yourself seeing as you were also not there you cant say that they werent now can you? The president doesnt have to tell them who to target, a general doesnt, it only takes one soldier higher than another to impliment a command. Obviously some of you think its has to be an army wide thing to happen, well it doesnt, it only takes one squad, two soldiers at the least.




posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by Delirious

Originally posted by dev_add
And do not say they did, If you were not there and you say otherwise...
just stand by and shut the F^&* up.


Apparently you like to contradict yourself seeing as you were also not there you cant say that they werent now can you? The president doesnt have to tell them who to target, a general doesnt, it only takes one soldier higher than another to impliment a command. Obviously some of you think its has to be an army wide thing to happen, well it doesnt, it only takes one squad, two soldiers at the least.


How do you know if I were there or not? enough said on that.

Ok according to some peoples train of logic the U.S. Military (USMC in this
case) is ordering Marines to kill innocent people.
remember Sgt Jones can order Pvt Parts to kill a civilian.....anyone higher in rank right??)

so let's assume Im a school principal in upstate NY and I tell a teacher it's ok to hit kids....OK she hits the kids....
then the next day all over the papers "New York school system allows teachers to hit students"

Just because a few people who are messed up in the head kill innocent people that does not mean that it is a Huge conspiracy to where "Marines are ordered to kill innocent people".

And If someone is ordered to kill civilians they have the responsibility to not follow it. they will get in trouble or punished if they follow through with it, private jones tells his commander or whoever that sgt peters told him to kill civilians then sgt peters gets in trouble.

You can't judge a whole army by a few people screwing up....
hey thats like judging an entire nation by the actions of a few citizens
or like judging all muslims by the crazy actions of a few,,,see my point?




[edit on 17-3-2005 by dev_add]

[edit on 17-3-2005 by dev_add]



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 08:31 AM
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Apparently you like to contradict yourself seeing as you were also not there you cant say that they werent now can you? The president doesnt have to tell them who to target, a general doesnt, it only takes one soldier higher than another to impliment a command. Obviously some of you think its has to be an army wide thing to happen, well it doesnt, it only takes one squad, two soldiers at the least.


It is a soldiers duty to obey orders but that does not mean to follow blindly.
There are strict rules of engagement that must be followed and whenever a soldier is giving an order that counters thier moral standing and common good sense, they do not have to carry those orders out. You are right about the chain of command and usely these sort of things would happen on the platoon level with a NCO in charge. It happens and has happened in every war or hostile engagement down through history. A soldier in combat has to dehumanize the enemy. You cannot look at the enemy as equals. This is why soldiers use slang words such as Kraut, Nip, Gook,
Skinnies, Ragheads, etc. etc. This takes the human face away from the target in your crosshairs. You cannot afford to think of the enemy as a person. Once you start thinking too much then you're dead meat. Soldiers act on instinct in combat. That instinct is drilled into them through intensive training. The problem is that a soldier is built for combat, not police duty.
They are trained to obtain a specific goal not play hide the bomb with the locals. This is why we took down an entire country with only a little over a hundred casualties. Now our guys are dying two, three or more a day. This is why civilians are getting killed and will continue to die. There is no mass agenda by American troops to delibrately target civilians. There is however a mass agenda of militants and insurgents dressed as civilians to target US troops. Therein lies the problem.



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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Well apparently some do follow them blindly otherwise the military person's that ordered people do things of such nature in this war and in others wouldnt have gotten a response now would they?


There is no mass agenda by American troops to delibrately target civilians.

Im not argueing that at all. But these things do happen. Under orders too. You cant say that every single soldier in the US armed forces has a strong moral standing or even good common sence.

As far as whether you were there are not, maybe you were, maybe not, doesnt really matter, the fact of the matter is marines aren't all "good hearted" american patriots that go out of their way to make sure that america looks good. So were you in this guys squad? I doubt it seriously, if you had been you would have said so to give you leverage in the saying. Who are you to say that there arnt people in the military that would give such orders to people who would follow them?

[edit on 17-3-2005 by Delirious]


[edit on 17-3-2005 by Delirious]



posted on Mar, 17 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Delirious
Well apparently some do follow them blindly otherwise the military person's that ordered people do things of such nature in this war and in others wouldnt have gotten a response now would they?
I never said that this wasn't possible. In the wide spectrum of things all things are possible.



There is no mass agenda by American troops to delibrately target civilians.

Im not argueing that at all. But these things do happen. Under orders too. You cant say that every single soldier in the US armed forces has a strong moral standing or even good common sence.

My point is that America does not place a bunch of delinquents in uniforms, give them m16's and and send them to war. Which is a popular belief on this board.


[As far as whether you were there are not, maybe you were, maybe not, doesnt really matter, the fact of the matter is marines aren't all "good hearted" american patriots that go out of their way to make sure that america looks good. So were you in this guys squad? I doubt it seriously, if you had been you would have said so to give you leverage in the saying.]

It is really very unnecessary to be so beligerant. It's highly doubtful anyone on this thread served with this guy.


[Who are you to say that there arnt people in the military that would give such orders to people who would follow them? ]

I never said that this could not, would not or has never happened. If you took the time to read what I actually wrote then you would know this. It is very possible that he did target civilians. If you go back and read through the thread then you will see that a lot of post are trying to say that this is rampant within the American Military. Who am I? I am a decorated war veteran with 25 yrs of service to my country who was wounded in action.
I think that gives me the creditials I need to step in and put a stop to the BS that so easily posted on here by people who have never so much as broken a nail in defense of anything. Now I do not have to justify myself to you are anyone but I wanted to put that smart a** remark of yours to bed.

[edit on 17-3-2005 by Delirious]


[edit on 17-3-2005 by Delirious]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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On feburary 25, US Army officials at Fort Stewart, Georgia, announced that Sergeant Kevin Benderman, a 40 year old amry mechanic who refused to deploy to Iraq for a second tour of duty, will be court-martialed on desertion charges. If convicted, he faces up to seven years in prison.

[...]

Benderman joins a growing number of soldiers who are protesting the Iraq war by refusing orders, going AWOL, fleeing to Canada or speaking-out. CBS News reported on December 8 that the Pentagon has admitted that ateast 5500 US Military Personnel have deserted since the war started in Iraq.

Doug Lorimer

Green Left Weekly



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Benderman joins a growing number of soldiers who are protesting the Iraq war by refusing orders, going AWOL, fleeing to Canada or speaking-out. CBS News reported on December 8 that the Pentagon has admitted that ateast 5500 US Military Personnel have deserted since the war


And this makes you happy doesn't it? We have always had deserters and always will, so does every other army, but in this case, they signed and therefore are deserters and should pay the price.


I guess in must be in vogue to hate America these days........Hate away ghostsoldier.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Benderman joins a growing number of soldiers who are protesting the Iraq war by refusing orders, going AWOL, fleeing to Canada or speaking-out. CBS News reported on December 8 that the Pentagon has admitted that ateast 5500 US Military Personnel have deserted since the war



Originally posted by edsinger
And this makes you happy doesn't it? We have always had deserters and always will, so does every other army, but in this case, they signed and therefore are deserters and should pay the price.

Hate away ghostsoldier.


I've already said I dont "hate" America... What I do hate is what you do ... So if you say it is "American" to invade other countries, and "American" to take away others freedomes - then hey, think what you want... The issue of me "hating" America is irrelevant...

And I think that 5500 is a huge amount, it hasn't been like this (as is my understanding) since the Vietnam war.... And I am happy, happy that there is still true soldiers out there who will fight for whats right and just - and refuse to be a tool inwhich to inflict carnage on behalf of the Pentagons globalisation agenda...

[edit on 25-3-2005 by ghostsoldier]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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you know what, I am just about sick of these panty waste airheads who think everything america does is wrong and evil. These same people have no problem living within the protection of our borders, enjoying the very freedom they spit on. Some have this twisted notion that speaking out against your government, and damn near commiting treason, is 'patriotism'. If this happened fifty years ago all these people would be jailed, of course there would be fewer of them because at heart they are cowardly. These people make me sick and for some reason they are mostly liberals.(and they wonder why they lost the election) doesn't take much to figure out their living neverland. There has never been a war, nor will there be, where civilians are not killed. Until i see more 'liberals' fighting this war and less of them marching up and down the street, their opinions will never carry much weight and will remain little more than nuisances.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:02 AM
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You can have freedom and protection, without taking away someone elses...

America has done alot of great things, but I personally do not agree with their foreign policy... I am not even from your country, nor am I Liberal... I am far from it... I am completely Left Wing...

Again; You can have freedom and protection, without taking away someone elses!!!



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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Ok, you seem to think we(Americans) want this war on our soil. we don't. this is why we are taking the war to them instead of waiting for it to be in our country. what's the difference between liberals and left wingers? not much from what i understand.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by CGBSpender
what's the difference between liberals and left wingers? not much from what i understand.


Actually there is a big difference. Especially between European liberals and American.
If you don't know those differences then how can you conclude that they're "pantie waste airheads"? Whatever that means


(BTW I'm not liberal, left or right wing, but you probably wouldn't understand)



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by Croat56Ya the U.S. waits like 6-7 years just to flex their muscles. Im sure thats why they went in. They and the U.N. could have stopped it in 91. Infact Bush sent his foreign diplomat thing(forget the name) and said they would not do anything to stop whatever they would do. Pretty much gave them the green light to do anything. Then they only went when they started killin albanians, didnt SH!T for us. lol flexed muscles. One of their most advanced plains was shot down with a soviet missle sisytem.


If anyone has the right to bitch about what the EU and the USA didn't do , it is the Croatians and the Bosnians. We both sat by and watched it happen, no excuses we dropped the ball.


Then again to here these tulipwalkers in here say it, the only reason the US did go in was to get all that oil......oh wait a second..........that cant be it.


It's not always about oil. It can be about something else like mobile tel. providers. UNMIK is favoring Allbright group in Kosovo and denying other companies fair treatment.

Cheers



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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We created the terrorists, we invaded a country and pissed people off... simple.

When tanks come driving into edsingers town he'd probably be running for the hills as well, returning later to find his family slaughtered.. but it's all in the name of the propaganda labeled "democracy". Basically you choose your oppressors.'

One man's terrorist is another mans hero/freedom fighter.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by RedOctober90]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by RedOctober90
We created the terrorists, we invaded a country and pissed people off... simple.
[edit on 25-3-2005 by RedOctober90]











Yes America armed OBL, but that was in an attempt to help the Afghan people fight off Russia. Which they managed to do. America did not create
the radical Islamic teaching that OBL so fondly follows. If I remember correctly the US Congress voted their approval for the invasion of Iraq. No, we didn't find any WMD so that makes the US look like an agressive bully.
But wouldn't it have been easier for Bush to have planted WMD's and then
tell the world that he was right all along? He knew going in that if he didn't find anything that the s*** would hit the fan. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, we all have it. If the Taliban had only corraled OBL then we would not have invaded Afghanistan. If Clinton had only inerrupted his TV golf game, then OBL would have been dead years ago, missed him by an hour. If Saddam had been at the residence we hit before the invasion then things would be alot different in Iran right now. As far as pissing people off, if you are talking about the Islamic Radicals, they were pissed long before we went into Iraq. Seems to me that they have been trying to pick a fight with America since before the Shaw was run out of Iran. Damned if you do and Damned if you don't. We could just set at home and wait for the tanks to role up and down our streets. Or we could create a front in their backyard and keep them busy there. I choose the latter.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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I could care less about 'liberals' in europe. i am talking about USA and if you dont live in the U.S. please dont bad mouth a country you dont know anything about.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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CGB Spender:

you know what, I am just about sick of these panty waste airheads who think everything america does is wrong and evil. These same people have no problem living within the protection of our borders, enjoying the very freedom they spit on.


So move to a country that restricts people's right to express their opinions. China is good for that.

Is it spitting on freedom to question your government? Have you ever read anything that the Founding Fathers wrote down? They would ALL, to a man, be appalled at the interference of the US government in everyday life and in world affairs. But I assume you know the early history of the United States since you live there, right? That your country started because of an overthrow by Americans of their colonial masters.

But of course, I'm talking to the choir because as an American you are intimately aware of your country's revolutionary beginnings.


I could care less about 'liberals' in europe. i am talking about USA and if you dont live in the U.S. please dont bad mouth a country you dont know anything about.


I'm not American, and since I live in a free country (Canada), I am allowed to voice my opinion and not have to worry about reprisals. So I can pretty much say exactly what I want about your country's government.

And, um, it would appear I know more about your own country's history than you do. Does that make me a better American than you, even though I don't live there?

jako



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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The soldier contradicts himself, and doesn't even have a ring of truth to it...



I was supposed to shoot the ones that looked like they belonged to ‘terrorist groups.’ Those were the directions military intelligence gave us.”




We ended up massacring innocent civilians – men, women, and children


So these women and children looked like they belonged to terrorist groups? Yeah, sure, ok, so he basically can't even follow "orders"???

Personally, I read about 3 letters a week from troops in Iraq, and not a damned one of them even comes close to anything like this soldier's "testimony"....
I've also spoken with quite a few friends who've returned from there (finally) and at length about their experiences as well. This guy's statements are full of it.

As mentioned, no way this would happen and not be front page on every US bashing country's newspapers (which is effectively any nation but the UK and USA,
)

I'm crying serious bull hockey...



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by CGBSpender
I could care less about 'liberals' in europe. i am talking about USA and if you dont live in the U.S. please dont bad mouth a country you dont know anything about.


I am a European but I've lived in America for 16 yrs. Spent 6 of that in your military. So I do know quite a lot about it. And seeing as according to you guys this is a free country, I will "bad mouth" it as much as I want thank you!

Also seeing as this is not an exclusively American web site, you do need to understand other ppls beliefs before you make blanket statements about them.

[sarc]But of course the world doesn't exist past America's borders right?[/sarc]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by CGBSpender
I could care less about 'liberals' in europe. i am talking about USA and if you dont live in the U.S. please dont bad mouth a country you dont know anything about.


I am a European but I've lived in America for 16 yrs. Spent 6 of that in your military. So I do know quite a lot about it. And seeing as according to you guys this is a free country, I will "bad mouth" it as much as I want thank you!

Also seeing as this is not an exclusively American web site, you do need to understand other ppls beliefs before you make blanket statements about them.

[sarc]But of course the world doesn't exist past America's borders right?[/sarc]


Very good post. I don't like etiquetes like bashers, haters, trolls, liberals, etc... This is not exclusevly US site. There are 6 billion people on this world and 280 million Americans. We have the right to freely express our mind. Im voteing you up ANOK




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