Corona Virus Updates Part 6

a reply to: MonkeyBalls2

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. The vaccine's will to some unknowable degree exacerbate the pandemic. They don't prevent infection or transmission, so it'll undoubtably lead to folk spreading covid whom might otherwise have stuck with the mask, distancing and washing protocols.

Add to that the question of how mutation is effected when the infectee has been vaccinated. Will this lead to mutations that are more destructive to those with that particular vaccination. My gut says that anyone saying this is not so is making statements beyond the realms of we know for certain.

On the other hand, do we do nothing? Do we except the above as reason to not bother vaccinating? The crux is that we don't know - we just don't know. Vaccines may not lead to vaccine resistant mutations and the mass vaccination may be the only weapon we have. I'm not saying this is fact, but anyone saying it's not and suggesting we all trust mother nature, or divine intervention will no doubt be begging the ICU for help if it turns out that their personal genetic lottery makes them vulnerable.

The vaccines are a gamble. Maybe they're just pissing in the wind, or they put out the fire. If i were in charge i know it'd be a damned difficult call to make, but if i went the vaccine route, then it's all or nothing and i too would probably want to bury the bad reactions, or it's all a waste of time.

But honestly, we have no real idea what the facts really are - what's really said in the briefings that lead to these decisions. You can only hope that those decisions favour the many, rather than the few.

originally posted by: MonkeyBalls2
a reply to: CrazeeWorld777

Out of 79 people who got the clots, only 19 died.
That's pretty good odds if you ask me.
I thought that all of them died.

So if you get a blood clot, you have a 3 out of 4 chance of surviving.
75% survival rate.

"Always look on the bright side of life"

And 25% chance of dying... can always look at it that way too.

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: McGinty

You're not losing the plot my friend

As 'your therapist' I can say you are of perfect mind....can't comment on your body though

Rainbows
Jane

Don’t fear, I stay in shape by regularly carrying heavy boxes of beer up to my flat from the shop across the road

yet more problems associated with the astrazeneca vaccine and also the Johnson & Johnson one.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: McGinty

Your wording is a lot better than mine

On another sad note, from 20minutes :
A gentleman has died 9 days after getting his Astrazenica vaccine.
He was 42 years old, and died from a blood clot.
He did have a medical condition that allowed him to be vaccinated early, but this was in no way linked to his cause of Death.
Unfortunately he was interred before an autopsy could be performed, and an inquiry has been opened to research the cause(s) of death.

France is now going to give all of the people who are under 55 and have already had their first Astrazenica vaccine, a different vaccine for their second dose.
Quite a few Doctors say that clinical trials are needed before going ahead with this change in vaccine.

I'm pretty sure somewhere has done some studies about mixing vaccines (first and second doses different), but not the Three stage trials they usually have iirc.

It's just getting totally out of hand now!
As I said on another thread..... So the Government are now backed into a corner/shot themselves in the foot.
If adverse and death figures keep going up at the rate they are, can you imagine the outrage if they stopped all vaccination 'due to concerns', from all the people who have had the jab? 'Devil they do and devil if they don't' is right here and right now.
it's a FUBAR situation currently.

Rainbows
Jane

The center for disease control just put out a statement saying covid-19 and other public health threats are racist!

nypost.com...

a reply to: angelchemuel

Over here we don't even get daily numbers at the moment, due to 'data collection problems'.
Macron has also decided that there are no 'Goals' to achieve.
ie, there is nothing that says "if we get below X new cases per day, we will come out of 'lockdown'"
There's nothing for the General Population to look forward to. It's all just when they feel like it, whenever, and for whatever reason.
No one can plan or even look slightly into the Future. Very Bleak, and very Orwellian.

They've made the decision to mix vaccines now (1st Doses and 2nd doses from different manufacturers), and it doesn't seem to be based on any Scientific data or analysis as far as I can tell.
That's putting the State responsible is the sh!t hits the fan, ie Tax Money.

We're not sleepwalking, it seems we are running into potentially huge problems.
We don't seem to have had a usual Thursday update this week.
Don't remember if we had one last week either...

They've now said Schools will be online until the end of April, which is after the 'early' two week Easter holidays that was supposed to allow them to go back to school.

a reply to: McGinty




Die Masken verursachen Impotenz bei Erwachsenen Männchen Dumbkoff !

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: McGinty




Die Masken verursachen Impotenz bei Erwachsenen Männchen Dumbkoff !

Is Dumbkoff directed at me? If so, may I ask why?

a reply to: McGinty

Ah, think nothing of it.
If he want's to believe that masks cause impotence, he may be just trying to blame something for his erectile dysfunction.

Now for some more Covid related news

Turns out the numbers here are being supplied, just not at the same time as usual, and Worldometers just doesn't seem to be updating it.
We're still on 40K+ new cases a day here. You'd think that after a while we'd run out of people to infect at this rate...

We also managed to administer 510,000 vaccines on Friday, which is a damn good number for us so far.
That's after they opened the first of 40 mass vaccination centres.

Astrazenica has announced some more delays to the production of it's vaccines.
They'll only deliver 1.3 Million doses, instead of 2.6 Million to EU, Norway and Iceland.
I don't think anyone on the receiving end is going to be very worried about that, some might even be relieved

Also, some UK scientists believe the UK is coming out of lockdown too early, from the Guardian live feed at 9.13am UK time :

Amid warnings by leading scientists that the UK government is risking a third wave of Covid-19 by easing the lockdown, there are fears on the part of experts that there are still far too many hotspots causing concern.

Stephen Griffin, of Leeds University medical school, told the Observer:

" There are areas in West Yorkshire, the Black Country and other regions that still have high infection rates. However, many people there cannot afford to self-isolate. We need to tackle that issue urgently or the virus will come back again. "

The government has said it would not lift restrictions until infection levels are low enough but Griffin said that its promise to follow “data not dates” now appeared to have been abandoned.

Professor Lawrence Young of Warwick medical school added:

" The test, trace and isolate system that is supposed to contain outbreaks has not worked well, and even when people test positive, they are not isolating.

We need a properly funded system for quarantining infected people. We don’t have that and that raises the risk we could head back into trouble again quite quickly. "

On a personal note, I've given myself Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in the right hand/wrist unblocking the upstairs drains with a plunger.
Be careful when doing odd-jobs around the house, you never know when doing something banal can turn into something nice and painful

originally posted by: MonkeyBalls2
a reply to: McGinty




We're still on 40K+ new cases a day here. You'd think that after a while we'd run out of people to infect at this rate...

That bit right there! It's always been a bugbear of mine.
I am fed up with them reporting 'new case' figures, it's complete fear mongering. Give us hospitalisation figures FFS! Nobody logs daily figures when there is a 'seasonal cold' going around when every man and his dog catches it but we all just laugh it off... "Oh, you've got this cold too!"

As you were, rant over.
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

I don't see it as fear mongering, i'd rather have the data, than not.
To me it's just a number, that shows that it is either spreading more, or less, or more people are getting tested, or less.

It's up to us to interpret the data, even though we are helped a bit by the Scientists.
Most scientists though aren't used to having to speak to the general public, and have a hard time of 'Simplifying' their knowledge to our level.

"Knowledge is Power"

edit : We have hospitalization figures here, daily (as best as can be updated).
Isn't that part of the UK data set, even on a weekly basis ?

a reply to: MonkeyBalls2
I've not seen any hospitalisation figures for UK, but then it has been a long 12 months!

Most people cannot interpret data. Also, as my old statistics lecturer used to say "you can get statistics to back up any argument you want at the end of the day".
Scientists aren't being asked to speak to the general public, their computer, number crunching 'data' is and passed on to us by Government and 'scientific advisors'.

I still maintain daily/weekly hospitalisation figures for C19 are far more accurate as to how serious it is, not how many have been tested for positive/false positive/negative/false negative figures. Hospitalisation figures are far more empirical.....and like I said, Not one Nightingale 'hospital' was used for the purpose it was built barring around 200 people in the London one at the very start and that was just to keep NHS beds free, of which there were plenty around London.
Then they had to shut it down as one half of it sprung water leaks everywhere because the plumbing was naff within the first 2 weeks of opening.

The figures which make up the death certificates are also questionable. So in my view, the only statistic of any relevance is how many are hospitalised WITH C19, and out of those, how many died of those symptoms alone, and a further break down of those who died of underlying health conditions because OF C19. Period. Anything else is open to interpretation to the Government to interpret and fit their agenda.

Rainbows
Jane

Has this been posted yet?

www.sciencemag.org...

So far the impact of these variants on pets has been unclear. Though there have now been more than 120 million cases of COVID-19 around the world, only a handful of pets have tested positive for the original SARS-CoV-2—probably because no one is testing them. Infected pets appear to have symptoms ranging from mild to nonexistent, and infectious disease experts say companion animals are likely playing little, if any, role in spreading the coronavirus to people.

The new variants might change that equation, says Eric Leroy, a virologist at the French National Research Institute for Sustainable Development who specializes in zoonotic diseases. In one of the new studies, he and colleagues analyzed pets admitted to the cardiology unit of the Ralph Veterinary Referral Centre in the outskirts of London. The hospital had noticed a sharp uptick in the number of dogs and cats presenting with myocarditis: From December 2020 to February, the incidence of the condition jumped from 1.4% to 12.8%

That coincided with a surge of the B.1.1.7 variant in the United Kingdom. So the team—led by veterinarian Luca Ferasin, head of the hospital's cardiology service—looked at 11 pets: eight cats and three dogs. None of the animals had a previous history of heart disease, yet all had come down with symptoms ranging from lethargy and loss of appetite to rapid breathing and fainting. Lab tests revealed cardiac abnormalities, including irregular heartbeats and fluid in the lungs, all symptoms seen in human cases of COVID-19.

Seven of the animals got polymerase chain reaction tests, and three came back positive for SARS-CoV-2—all with the B.1.1.7 variant, team reported yesterday on the preprint server bioRxiv. SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests on four of the other animals picked up evidence that two of them had been infected with the virus. Earlier this week, researchers at Texas A&M University detected the B.1.1.7 variant in a cat and a dog from the same home in the state’s Brazos county.

Leroy says it’s unclear whether B.1.1.7 is more transmissible than the original strain between humans and animals, or vice versa. It’s “impossible to say” that pets infected with B.1.1.7 might play a more serious role in the pandemic, he adds, but “this hypothesis has to be seriously raised.”

Interesting development, but in all honesty, it could have already been occurring. The myocarditis is interesting, they have found elevated d-dimer (indicates clotting potential) and elevated troponin (released from injured or stressed cardiac cells, binds to actin, transports calcium). Usually these are severe patients and it could be more related to inflammation, maybe not directly caused by the virus but a result of the inflammatory response and sepsis.

...It is Chile that supplies the sharpest warning for the UK. Its health workers have delivered first jabs to 37% of the population but daily cases are still rising sharply. Several reasons have been put forward for this unexpected jump: the spread of more virulent coronavirus strains from Brazil; increased numbers of Chileans travelling around the country; and reduced adherence to social distancing after the vaccination programme gave people a false sense of security.

uk.style.yahoo.com...

I've been worried that the vaccination rollout could backfire in the short term in the UK, due to a false sense of security.

My own observations of how the english have acted during this virus has shown to me a nation with a shockingly high number of either ignorant, or uncaring people. There's been an epidemic of sociopathy, with so many flouting rules designed to save us - rich and poor and of all colours. There always seem to be people in the vicinity who have no respect whatsoever for the concerns or safety of those around them.

I can see this permeating into an 'I'm alright, Jack!' approach post vaccination.

Some may simply be too stupid to get their head around the fact that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection and transmission. But most, i've noticed, just don't seem to care. Sadly, the UK would now seem to be a nation of navel gazing, social media addicted, grown up children that cry out in tantrum at having to temporarily reign in their interactions in order to save their lives...


The article above claims that Israel is doing a good job of containing the virus. I've never been to Israel, but i met many Israeli travellers when i was backpacking and they really stood out as tough nuts in the best possible way. They weren't pampered, or privileged, afraid to say boo when out of their comfort zone. Despite having more reason than many they weren't navel gazers, disgruntled at what fate had dealt them. So i've no problem aligning the Israel that apparently copes well with this virus with those i met as a traveller.

I remember a rug salesman - i think it was Varanasi, India (so many years ago) - that bemoaned the Israeli travellers because they haggled far too much (read as: 'far too well'). Unless you've had an 'easy life' you'll know that you either stand up for yourself or you get ripped off - there's little middle ground. So i had an instant respect and liking for Israeli's. Like i said, i've never been there's so delving too deeply is conjecture and probably in poor taste (don't want to accidentally stray into stereotypes).

But i wonder what makes these people better equipped to act as one against a foe, such as Covid. Of course we all know they've had a bloody # run of luck and had to fight to survive generation after generation (that's not to take sides in the Palestinian conflict - that's above my pay grade, immensely complex, off topic and frankly, frakking horrible). But like the Palestinians every Israeli baby is born into a conflict. Is it because such hardship goes a long way in unifying and enabling a nation to fight as a unit?

That inherited hardship necessitates mandatory national service which has surely played a huge part in Israel acting as a unit against Covid; in their new generations being equipped to do more than just update their facebook status.

Chile has national service too, but it's not mandatory, so i'll go out on a limb and assume that many do not do it (Google was not forthcoming on the % of Israel vs % of Chile). I believe that this learned discipline shines through in Israel's covid management; having the mental faculty, discipline and team spirit to maintain the containment measures necessary to control the virus. Has learning a sense of responsibility and duty to those around them made all the difference?

This care for others is not a weakness - not something you're being forced to do by an evil government - but a strength. An innate empathy for others and a comprehension for the big picture - that to win you have to work together - to have the back of the person beside you, isn't something to shun, but something to aspire towards, as it makes us stronger as individuals and as a people.

So i ask, when i walk to streets of england why do i not see this? Why instead is there devision, apathy and disregard for all but one self. Has the well of western culture been so thoroughly poisoned by over the years by those making money and others wanting control; keep us seperate, at odds with one another, divide and conquer. Breed mistrust and selfishness, narcissism and the 'I'm alright, Jack' mentality; use the carrot of social media making you the star, the VIP who's happiness is paramount and the stick of immigration, terrorism, pandemics to push us apart - keep us afraid of each other more than the tptb. Moreover make us all need tptb to protect us from these terrors. That doesn't mean the terrors aren't real - these are the big stakes. When they see maskless mobs confront masked shoppers the those at the top must smile to themselves and think, "All is good so long as they fight one another. If they care more for their personal freedoms than for their fellow humans, then we, who provide those freedoms will always be their rulers. If they won't fight together they can never threaten the true power structures that haven't shifted in millennia."

Some fear with good reason that following these rules is giving in to the agenda of fascist-corporate overloads whose tentacles reach into every home. But the rub is that not maintaining these disciplines to contain the virus means you'll be living in the shadow of these disciplines all the longer because you're enabling the virus. They can't lose either way... We can't win either way.

It certainly is a catch 22 for the suspicious minds among us, of which i count myself. But there's no middle ground in the real world. There is no easy life, facebook and ATS are not as real as the world outside your window, you are either containing or enabling. If containment is part of a sinister plan then we'll have to cross that bridge one day, but by caring about each other - acting as a unit. Then when we get to that bridge we'll fight together to cross it, rather than throwing one another over the side, leaving only a few victorious survivors whom the gatekeepers can then more easily quash.

So next time you're out, even if you believe covid is horse crap, let it be a reason to care, rather than a reason to not care. That's the best f**k you if it turns out to be horse crap, because it bonded us. If it really is all a conspiracy, then that's the last thing the conspirators want to see - a people coming out of the pandemic more united than when they went in.

But my meagre daily perspective has shown me people becoming ever more divided and alienated from one another by their devotion to their chosen, inherited or implanted ideologies. And after seeing the how selfishly, ineptly so many folk in the uk reacted to containment i can only imagine that the reaction to the vaccine will be even more selfish and inept; from "I've been vaccinated so i can't get covid, meaning i can't give it to anyone else now." To "I've been vaccinated, meaning if i get it it'll be mild, so f**k everyone else."

We go the Chile route and well manicured, unworked hands rub in glee.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

Am I reading this right from your article (I have read the whole article too).
Do they mean 120 million PEOPLE or 120 million PETS? It reads to me that it is people no?
If that is the case, that only 120 million people from a worldwide population of 7 1/2 BILLLION people....well it sums up perfectly, yes it is deadly to a few, but only 120 million have been infected is a drop in the ocean, especially when you look at ratios between deaths alone to world population to the Spanish Flu for example.

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Yeah people not pets, over 130 million now with just under 3 million deaths. People who died while carrying the virus in a confirmed test. It's nasty in those select few just like most other respiratory infections.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc
Thank you for confirming that.
So 3 million die of C19 so far out of 130 million infected, I don't expect it to go up much more.
In comparison to 500 million infected by Spanish flu with an estimated 50 MILLION deaths.....sort of puts the 'fear' in perspective no?

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Yes it does, if we get pandemic influenza, that’s it, society won’t be able to handle a real nasty pandemic. Especially after the trust issues from this one. Very few times in my life have I seen misinformation from all sides be taken as fact compared to what is actually going on with everything.