The History of the Vymanika Shastra

Originally posted by worldwatcher
did you two guys (yes Indigo is a guy) cover or touch this one yet??

Ancient Sanskrit from India tell of UFO visit in 4,000 B.C.

I think this is just further evidence that the VS was written in the early 20th century. The "flying machine" picture looks typical of fantasy from the period. There's no chance the thing would fly unless you threw it from a cliff.

How is mercury meant to make things fly exactly?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that mercury can be made to circulate by applying electric current properly. If that's accurate then it would be possible to create an electric-powered turbine driven by a flow of mercury. It wouldn't be an ion engine- just a bizarre electric motor. Well within the capabilities of 1920s technology I should think.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I seem to recall reading somewhere that mercury can be made to circulate by applying electric current properly. If that's accurate then it would be possible to create an electric-powered turbine driven by a flow of mercury.

I would imagine that you could get mecury to behave that way. Though as an engine it would probably be less effecient than getting a load of mice to run round in a big wheel.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
I would imagine that you could get mecury to behave that way. Though as an engine it would probably be less effecient than getting a load of mice to run round in a big wheel.

You're a genius! I'm going to patent that! Just for fun, I'm going to say I channeled it from a famous dead dude. Do you have any preference as to which dead dude I say it came from? I think Jesus would be a little over the top, but maybe John the Baptist, so we can tie it into the whole Knight's Templar and secret doctrine and all that sort of mythology.

Lets go for the priest from Rennes les Chateux, the one who apparently found Christ's body/Cathar treasure/a Knight Templar in his bathroom or whatever it was.

He should be good for all your channelling needs.

I beleive the Nazca (not inca, different culture, Nazca provided some of the foundations for the inca) built ballons because it explains the Nazca Lines in a far more compelling way than anything put foreward by you or Von Daiken. Also the proof of this, while I admit isnt perfect if the fact that a ballon was built using materials and techniques available at the time and it was flown! Photos were taken, things were written down. Reasonable evidence, not conclusive but enough for me.

As someone said in another thread. You're hypocrit. Where is the physical evidence for the balloons?

Has anyone built and flown your mercury ion engine? Nope!

They have, it's recorded in history. It's as good as any history.

As for my proof to the contrary. No remains have been found, no writings by others, no cluster of weird artefacts. Not even an ancient toothpick. Nothing at all.

Hmm, there is an an entire ancient urban city found with a underground sewage system that is as good as most modern sanitations systems. As well as steel and zinc. Finally, the iron pillar of Delhi still stands today.

I am not a psuedoskeptic, i am a genuine skeptic! There is a big difference. I am also quite good at research.

You're no skeptic. You're a hypocrit.

"I am good at research"

Do you know how hilarious that sounds after you said "there is no writing, weird artefacts" etc

Learnt to accpet critisicm for your ideas, because if you ever try and publish them it will get worse and worse.

Your comments are not criticism. You need to actually first analyse something, before you can criticise it. You still don't even know about the engineering and metallurgy that I have covered in many of my posts.

What you are doing is, is reading with your eyes closed. That's not criticism. That incompetency.

Also learn better arguements that 'you cant prove me wrong so therefore i must be right'. You are attempting to rewrite almost the entire prehistory of man. The burden of proof rests on you im afraid, no the skeptics, you have to proove your arguements, and however much you protest you havent managed that yet.

Yeah, I know the burden of proof lies with me and I have provided heaps of evidence to satisfy that condition.

Have you seen the scales of justice? On my side there are pages upon pages of evidence. On, your side, there is nothing. Literally, nothing. Zilch. Nada. Not even a single line. So, what happens if there is more weight one one side, it means the case is leaning towards the one with more weight.

Keep trying though...theres always tomorrow

I am not even going to try convince you. You don't matter to me. I have provided the evidence. Now, I am waiting for someone to "debunk it" by actually discussing the evidence. Byrd, is the only person, whose actually tried that. We had a scholary discussion. Then, you lot came in, the self-proclaimed scholars, experts, and intellectuals, making all sorts of claims. Yet, have provided no substance at all. I don't have any time for you. I already have enough on my mind already.

As I said before, either you deal with the evidence provided, or shut up, because I am not going to you take seriously if you don't and I will just ignore you.

Vagabond,

You are doing great by advertising this in your signature. Also provide, a link to this thread, just in case someone wants to take the challenge.
If you can't disprove this, it must mean it is true. When you do - we'll talk.

Honestly, you have no idea at all. You don't even come within a mile of the wisdom and knowledge of the Vedic civilisation. I see you as I see children, seriously. You just don't have the capacity to understand yet or appreciate complexity. It's just right over your head.

Leave the scholarly discussion to the scholars. Go and do something you are capable of. Hmmm.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Indigo_Child I fail to see the "proof" you offer. Saying a bunch of stuff does not equal proof As someone above said the onus is on you to prove us wrong. Not the other way around.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Indigo_Child I fail to see the "proof" you offer. Saying a bunch of stuff does not equal proof

As someone above said the onus is on you to prove us wrong. Not the other way around.

I am not offering any proof of myself. I am simply telling you what the experts have found and giving you the knowledge.

"You have to prove us wrong" You can't prove a negative
I don't have to do anything for psudoskeptics. All I do, is provide the evidence and then discuss that. You can doubt as much as you want.

What does it prove? It only proves you doubt. Well, that's human nature. Nothing new there.

If someone says "US are pilots are chasing fire flies" do you know want I do, I pity the fool and then move onto the next post.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Some people's idea of wisdom and spiritual insight is the Matrix. While some people read the Vedas, Mahabharata, Upanishads and the Yoga sutras for wisdom.

That's the difference between Einstein, Bohm,Tesla and Schrodinger and kids who post on internet forums. I mean, think well and hard, who are you? Why should you even matter to me? You don't.

Why do Einstein, Tesla, Bhom and Schrodinger matter to me? Because they have made a name for themselves and have devoted their lives in search of truth and wisdom.

They are not the arm-chair know-it-alls that prowl around on internet forums to tell everyone how wrong everyone is. Or magicians making it a career to tell scientists, ufologists, parapsychologists, pilots, technicians scholars how wrong they are. You don't know anything. All you do is doubt, and that is what everyone does. If everyone was wise and knowing, then believe me, we would not be on the brink of self-destruction as a race. The truth is, because of such widespread ignorance, we are where we are today. Ignorance is a way of life of humans in this time.

It's absolute rubbish and bs, that ATS is where we deny ignorance. ATS is full of ignorant people. It's funny just how ironic that is. Ignorant people, flocking to a place where ignorance is denied

Why not stop now in this thread. It's funny enough, I am not even asking you to believe. All I am asking for is a proper and serious discussion of the evidence I provided. If you can't do that - then do yourself a favor - go play somewhere else. Go throw mud at someone else. If you don't have it, you don't have it, it does not mean the have not's spoil it for the have's.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I mean, think well and hard, who are you? Why should you even matter to me? You don't.

Well, you seem to be getting quite tetchy about the criticism of your theories.

They are not the arm-chair know-it-alls that prowl around on internet forums to tell everyone how wrong everyone is.

You really don't see the irony in that statement do you?


Getting back to the thread: Indigo, you mentioned some urban city with modern style sewage systems. Although I don't think this is evidence of any of the "hyper-technology" that you have been discussing I would be interested to know more about it. How old is it? How was it dated? Where is it? etc.

Indigo, you mentioned some urban city with modern style sewage systems. Although I don't think this is evidence of any of the "hyper-technology" that you have been discussing I would be interested to know more about it. How old is it? How was it dated? Where is it? etc

LoL, see what I mean. I've discussed this several times in so many threads.
I have provided all of the information. And guess what? You have not even read it

And here you are criticising the evidence I have provided. How can you criticise something, you have not even read

Now, do you understand why I call your kind pseudoskeptics.

Go and read the threads "vedic physics" and "Proof: Advanced ancient civilisation existed" and come back to me.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Here's Vagabond's "pseudointellectuls" that are "conspiring" together to "revise Indian history" to make India "look good" (enjoy)

INDIAN SPACE RESEARCH ORGANIZATION

ISRO was formed in 1972.

It is comprised of 13 space research centres around India:

Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC)
ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC)
Satish Dhawan Space Centre, SHAR
Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC)
Space Applications Centre (SAC)
Development and Educational Communication Unit (DECU)
ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC)
INSAT Master Control Facility (MCF)
ISRO Inertial Systems Unit (IISU)
National Remote Sensing Agency (NRSA)
Regional Remote Sensing Service Centres (RRSSC)
Physical Research Laboratory (PRL)
National Mesosphere/Stratosphere Troposphere Radar Facility (NMRF)

Here is a brief history of ISRO

2004 The first operational flight of GSLV (GSLV-F01) successfully launched EDUSAT from SDSC SHAR, Sriharikota (September 20, 2004)

2003 ISRO's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle, PSLV-C5, successfully launched RESOURCESAT-1 (IRS-P6) satellite from Sriharikota(October 17, 2003).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Successful launch of INSAT-3E by Ariane from Kourou French Guyana, (September 28, 2003).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second developmental launch of GSLV-D2 with GSAT-2 on board from Sriharikota (May 8, 2003).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Successful launch of INSAT-3A by Ariane from Kourou French Guyana, (April 10, 2003).
2002 ISRO's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle, PSLV-C4, successfully launched KALPANA-1 satellite from Sriharikota(September 12, 2002).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Successful launch of INSAT-3C by Ariane from Kourou French Guyana, (January 24, 2002).
2001 ISRO's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle, PSLV-C3, successfully launched three satellites -- Technology Experiment Satellite (TES) of ISRO, BIRD of Germany and PROBA of Belgium - into their intended orbits (October 22, 2001).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first developmental launch of GSLV-D1 with GSAT-1 on board from Sriharikota (April 18, 2001)
2000 INSAT-3B, the first satellite in the third generation INSAT-3 series, launched by Ariane from Kourou French Guyana,
(March 22, 2000).
1999 Indian Remote Sensing Satellite, IRS-P4 (OCEANSAT), launched by Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV-C2) along with Korean KITSAT-3 and German DLR-TUBSAT from Sriharikota
(May 26, 1999).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INSAT-2E, the last satellite in the multipurpose INSAT-2 series, launched by Ariane from Kourou French Guyana, (April 3, 1999).
1998 INSAT system capacity augmented with the readiness of INSAT-2DT acquired from ARABSAT (January 1998).
1997 INSAT-2D, fourth satellite in the INSAT series, launched (June 4, 1997). Becomes inoperable on October 4, 1997.
(An in-orbit satellite, ARABSAT-1C, since renamed INSAT-2DT, was acquired in November 1997 to partly augment the INSAT system).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First operational launch of PSLV with IRS-1D on board
(September 29, 1997). Satellite placed in orbit.
1996 Third developmental launch of PSLV with IRS-P3 on board (March 21, 1996). Satellite placed in polar sunsynchronous orbit.
1995 Launch of third operational Indian Remote Sensing Satellite, IRS-1C (December 28, 1995).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INSAT-2C, the third satellite in the INSAT-2 series, launched (December 7, 1995).
1994 Second developmental launch of PSLV with IRS-P2 on board (October 15, 1994). Satellite successfully placed in polar sunsynchronous orbit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fourth developmental launch of ASLV with SROSS-C2 on board (May 4, 1994). Satellite placed in orbit.
1993 First developmental launch of PSLV with IRS-1E on board (September 20, 1993). Satellite could not be placed in orbit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INSAT-2B, the second satellite in the INSAT-2 series, launched (July 23, 1993).
1992 INSAT-2A, the first satellite of the indigenously-built second-generation INSAT series, launched (July 10, 1992).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Third developmental launch of ASLV with SROSS-C on board (May 20, 1992). Satellite placed in orbit.
1991 Second operational Remote Sensing satellite, IRS-1B, launched (August 29, 1991).
1990 INSAT-1D launched (June 12, 1990).
1988 INSAT-1C launched (July 21, 1988). Abandoned in November 1989.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second developmental launch of ASLV with SROSS-2 on board (July 13, 1988). Satellite could not be placed in orbit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Launch of first operational Indian Remote Sensing Satellite, IRS-1A (March 17, 1988).
1987 First developmental launch of ASLV with SROSS-1 satellite on board (March 24, 1987). Satellite could not be placed in orbit.
1984 Indo-Soviet manned space mission (April 1984).
1983 INSAT-1B, launched (August 30, 1983).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second developmental launch of SLV-3. RS-D2 placed in orbit (April 17, 1983).
1982 INSAT-1A launched (April 10, 1982).
Deactivated on September 6, 1982.
1981 Bhaskara-II launched (November 20, 1981).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
APPLE, an experimental geo-stationary communication satellite successfully launched (June 19, 1981).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RS-D1 placed in orbit (May 31, 1981)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First developmental launch of SLV-3.
1980 Second Experimental launch of SLV-3, Rohini satellite successfully placed in orbit. (July 18, 1980).
1979 First Experimental launch of SLV-3 with Rohini Technology Payload on board (August 10, 1979). Satellite could not be placed in orbit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bhaskara-I, an experimental satellite for earth observations, launched (June 7, 1979).
1977 Satellite Telecommunication Experiments Project (STEP) carried out.
1975-1976 Satellite Instructional Television Experiment (SITE) conducted.
1975 ISRO First Indian Satellite, Aryabhata, launched (April 19, 1975).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Becomes Government Organisation (April 1, 1975).
1972-1976 Air-borne remote sensing experiments.
1972 Space Commission and Department of Space set up
(June 1, 1972). ISRO brought under DOS.
1969 Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) formed under Department of Atomic Energy (August 15, 1969).
1968 TERLS dedicated to the United Nations (February 2, 1968).
1967 Satellite Telecommunication Earth Station set up at Ahmedabad.
1965 Space Science & Technology Centre (SSTC) established in Thumba.
1963 First sounding rocket launched from TERLS
(November 21, 1963).
1962 Indian National Committee for Space Research (INCOSPAR) formed by the Department of Atomic Energy and work on establishing Thumba Equatorial Rocket Launching Station (TERLS) started.

Expert associated with VS: Sri. S. Krishna Murthy, Director, Public Relation, ISRO, Bangalore.



INDIAN INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY, BOMBAY

IIT, Bombay was formed in 1958. It is one of the best institutes in India for technology and also has an R&D department.
It is recognised as one of the best institutes in Asia and the magazine time listed it amongst the top 10 institutes in Asia.

Expert associated with VS: Dr. Maheshwar Sharon, Dept. of Chemistry, IIT, Bombay.

AERONAUTICAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCY

The ADA's is part of the Indian MOD for the design and construction of aeronautics. It's biggest achivement is The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), India's state-of-the-art multirole supersonic 4th generation aircraft. ADA has the following facalities:

Lightning Test
ASMS
Wind Tunnel
Cockpit Environment Facility
Virtual Reality
PDM-VPM
IRON Bird
LCA Hanger
Computing and software development Facility

BIRLA SCIENCE CENTRE

The Birla Science Centre is a complex spanning over 10,000 sq feet for science and technology, where seminars are held and awards scientific excellence. It also has a huge planeterium equipped with a state of the art projector and Dinsorium.


Expert associated with VS: Dr. B.G.Siddarth, Director Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad.

HINDUSTAN AERONAUTICS LTD

HAL was formed in 1964 and has built over 3000 aircraft since then. It includes helicopters,
transport aircraft, combat aircraft. It is also involved in the desinging and building of avionics, aero-engines
and instruments.

NATIONAL METALLURGICAL LAB

NML was formed as early as 1946 for science and technology of materials.

It's facilities include:

Analytical & Corrosion :
XRF, DRS AAS, XRD, UV spectrometer, Poximate Analyzer, CS Determinator, Hall Making Techniques, Polarization Behaviour, Salt Spray Test chamber, Stress Corrosion, Inhibitors.

Iron-making Raw Material Characterization :
Reducibility, Thermal Degradation, Softening Characterization, Linder Test Apparatus, Ash Fusion Furnace.

Material Characterization :
Optical, SEM, TEM, AFM, DTA/DTG, DSC, Pneumatic, Thermal, and Electrical Properties Measurement.

Non-Destructive Evaluation :
Ultrasonic Flow Detector, Acoustic Emission, Portable Hardness Tester, Magna-Flux, In-situ Metallography, Spectrum Analyser.

Mechanical Properties :
CREEP Testing, Tensile/Bending, Fatigue, Impact, Servo-hydraulic Testing.

Calibration Facility:
Temperature upto 1200C, Pressure: Pneumatic: upto 10 bar Hydraulic upto 25 bar. (i) Electric Parameter + 1000V; +10A; 30mohm; 330
Major Pilot Plant and Computation Facilities
Mineral Beneficiation :
Hydrocyclone, Perm Roll Magnetic Separator, Bartlex-Mozley Unit, Flotation Cell, Particle Size Analyzer, Image Analyzer, Mineral Microstructure Characterization and Mechanical Behaviour.

Furnaces :
Submerged Arc Furnace (50 KVA), Rotary Kiln, other Melting Units (Arc, Induction, Resistance Furnaces), 60 kg Vacuum Furnace

Materials Shaping :
Rolling Mill, Forging Unit, Wire Drawing Unit Extrusion Press

Pilot Plant :
Mineral Beneficiation Facilities (0.5е t/hr), Vertical Retort Direct Reduction Unit (300 tpa), 500 KVA Submerged Arc Furnace, Sea Noudles Processing plant

Computational Facility:
CFD Codes, Phoenix, Fluent, FEM Codes; ANSYS & ABACUS, Numerical scientific softwares : Mathematica, NAG Library
PARAM 10000 with Adv. Version of Pheonix with parallel processing features, dedicated Server: email internet, LAN, Gateway etc.

Expert associated with VS: Dr. P. Ramachandra Rao, Director, NML, Jamshedpur.


The Sanskrit researchers and scholars.

Here is an entire list of Sanskrit research universities
in India:

ASSAM
1. University of Guwahati, Guwahati - 781 014 (Assam)
ANDHRA
1. Andhra University, Waltair - 530 004
2. S.V. University Oriental Research Institute, Tirupathi - 517 501
3. Osmania University, Hyderabad - 500 001
BIHAR
1. Mithila Research Institute, Darbhanga - 846 004
2. K.P. Jaiswal Research Institute, Museum Building, Patna - 800 001
3. Patna University, Patna - 800 005
GUJARAT
1. B.J. Institute of Learning and Research, Ahmedabad - 380 001
2. L.D. Institute of Indology, Ahmedabad - 380 001
3. Baroda Sanskrit Mahavidyalaya, Baroda
4. Oriental Institute, Baroda
5. Sardar Patel University, Vallabh Vidyanagar
6. University School of Languages, Gujarat University, Ahmedahad - 380 009
7. M.S. University of Baroda, Baroda
HARYANA
1. Department of Sanskrit, Pali and Prakrit, faulty of Indic studies, Kurukshetra University, Kurukshetra - 132 118
HIMACHAL PRADESH - Nil
JAMMU AND KASHMIR
1. Jammu University, University Library, Jammu - 180 001
2. University Library, Srinagar - 190 001
3. Shri Ranbir Research Institute, Raghunath Mandir, Jammu - 180 001
4. Shri Ranbir Public Library, Kachi Chawni, Jammu - 180 001
5. Directorate of Libraries, Musuem and Research, Srinagar - 190 001
KERALA
1. Department of Sanskrit, Kerala University, Kariavattom, Trivandrum - 695 581
2. Department of Sanskrit, Calicut University, Calicut - 673 635
MADHYA PRADESH
1. Department of Post-graduate Studies and Research in Sanskrit, Pali and Prakrit, University of Jabalpur, Jabalpur - 482 001
2. Department of Post-graduate Studies and Research in Ancient Indian History, Culture and Archaeology, University of Jabalpur, Jabalpur - 482 00l
3. Sanskrit College, Indore - 452 00l
4. Sagar University, Sagar - 470 003
5. Vikram University, Ujjain - 456 010
6. Jabalpur University, Jabalpur - 482 00l
7. Scindia Oriential Research Institute, Ujjain - 456 00l
8. Maharaja College, Chhatrapur - 471 00l
MAHARASHTRA
1. Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune - 411 001
2. Deccan College Post-graduate and Research Institute, Pune - 411 001
3. Tilak Maharastra Vidyapeeth, Pune - 41l 00l
4. Centre of Advanced Study in Sanskrit, University of Poona, Pune - 411 001
5. Vaidik Samsodhan Mandal, Pune - 411 00l
6. Nagpur University, Nagpur - 440 00l
7. Department of Sanskrit, University of Bombay, Bombay - 400 00l
8. Gama Oriental Research Institute, Bombay - 400 00l
9. Poona Vidyapeeth, Pune - 411 00l
MYSORE
1. Oriental Research Institute, Mysore - 570 001
2. Department of Ancient History of Archaeology, Manasagangotri (Mysore) - 570 006
3. Central Institute of Indian Languages, Manasagangotri, (Mysore) - 570 006
4. Department of Post-graduate Studies and Research in History, University of Mysore, Mysore - 570 005
5. S.M.S.P. Sanskrit College, Udupi - 576 101
6. Post-Graduate Department of Sanskrit, Karnataka University, Dharwad - 580 001
7. Department of Ancient History and Archaeology, University of Mysore, Mysore - 570 005
8. Office of Chief Epigraphist, Archaeological Survey of India, Mysore - 570 001
ORISSA
l. Utkal University, Bhubaneshwar - 751 001
2. Sanskrit College, Parlakhemudi (Ganjam) - 761 200
PUNJAB
1. Department of Sanskrit, Panjabi University, Patiala - 147 001
2. Vishveshwaranand Institute and Sanskrit and Indologicol Studies, Punjab University, Hoshiarpur - 146 001
3. Vishveshvaranand Vedic Research Institute, Hoshiarpur - 146 001
RAJASTHAN
1. The University Department of Sanskrit, Jaipur - 302 001
2. Prahya Vidya Pratishthan, Jaipur - 302 001
TAMIL NADU
1. The Kuppuswami Sastri Research Institute, Mylapore, Madras - 600 004
2. The Adyar Library and Research Centre, Adyar, Madras - 600 020
3. Sanskrit Department, University of Madras, Madras - 600 005
4. Sanskrit Department, Annamalai University, Annamalai Nagar - 608 002
5. Sanskrit Department, Vivekananda College, Madras - 600 004
6. Sanskrit Department, Presidency College, Madras - 600 005
UTTAR PRADESH
1. Allahabad University, Allahabad - 211 002
2. Aligarh Muslim University, Aligarh - 202 001
3. Kashi Vidyapeeth, Varanasi - 246 437
4. Ganganatha Research Institute, Allahabad - 211 001
WEST BENGAL
1. Government Sanskrit College, Calcutta - 700 001
2. Calcutta University, Calcutta - 700 001
3. Burdwan University, Burdwan - 713 101
4. Vishva Bharati University, Santi Niketan - 731 235
5. Jadavpur University, Calcutta - 700 101
6. Mahabodhi Society, Howarah - 711 101
7. Sanskrit College, Howarah- 711 101
DELHI
1. Lal Bahadur Shastri Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeetha, Delhi
2. Bharatiya Vidya Samsthan, Darya Ganj, Delhi - 110 002
3. Bhogilal Leherchand Institute of Indology, Delhi
GOA
1. Gomantak Samstritottejak Mandal's Shankar Patasala, Kavelam Ponda, Goa - 403 401
2. Gomentak Sanskrit Parishad, Keri Port, Mandal, Goa - 425 439
PONDICHERRY
1. Central University, Pondicherry - 605 001

Now either all of the above are psuedointellectuals and a part of a secret Sanskrit shadow network, or Vagabond is a psuedoskeptic. Hmm, what a dilemma!

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

The IJHS science journal, in which the ancient light spectrometer and the infrared absorbing material developed from Maharishi Baradwaja's Ansubodhini and Vyaamanika Shastra were published, was started in 1966. It has just completed 35 volumes of some 870 papers, 100 book reviews and 12 primary texts, critically translated with annotations and edited.

The following is mentioned about Maharishi Baradwaja:

Dongre, N. G., “Metrology and Coinage in Ancient India and Contemporary World,” 29.3 (1994) 361-73.
— “Dhvåntapramåpaka Yantra of Maharishi Bharadvåja (Spectrometer/ Monochromator),” 29.4 (1994) 611-27.

— “Spectroscopy in Ancient India: An Application of Spectroscopy to Astrophysics,” 33.3 (1998) 229-38.

— , S. K. Malavia & P. Ramachandra Rao, “Prakå›a Stambhanåbhida Lauha of Maharishi Bharadvåja (A novel transparent material of range 5000 to 1400 cm),” 33.4 (1998) 273-80

Here is a complete list of papers:

www.insaindia.org...

The IJHS(Indian Journal of History of sciences) is a part of the Indian National Science academy(INSA) which was established in 1935 to promote science in India. It is involved in publising science journals etc

- More, "pseudointellectuals" for you, who have been "insulting our intelligence" since 1921 did he say.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
As someone said in another thread. You're hypocrit. Where is the physical evidence for the balloons?

It's right next to the physical evidence for vimanas Indigo.

They have, it's recorded in history. It's as good as any history.

That's a grotesquely insufficient answer. 1. Who is "they". 2. Where exactly is it recorded? You are aware that there isn't one all-powerful Book of History where the gods write everything down, right?
"They have it recorded in history" that Ramses III defeated an invincible force of raiders known as the Sea People- but in all likelihood that is fiction, like several of the victories attributed to him.
"They have recorded in history" that the Wounded Knee Massacre was a great battle marked by heroism which resulted in the awarding of 20 Congressional Medals of Honor. The truth is that the Army acted incompitently and began shelling unarmed people while their own cavaliers were in the line of fire, resulting in 178 casualties between the two sides combined.

Hmm, there is an an entire ancient urban city found with a underground sewage system that is as good as most modern sanitations systems. As well as steel and zinc. Finally, the iron pillar of Delhi still stands today.

But none of it is beyond the technology of that day. It doesn't take modern aircraft, nuclear power, etc etc to lay your city out in an organized manner and construct sewers. Furthermore, when you say "as good as most modern sanitation systems" are you claiming that we've found waste water treatment plants, running water in the majority of the buildings, etc? You are exagerating.

Your comments are not criticism. You need to actually first analyse something, before you can criticise it. You still don't even know about the engineering and metallurgy that I have covered in many of my posts.

Metallurgy was not unknown to ancient man. The Iron Pillar of Delhi is a fine example of outstanding craftsmanship, but it's nothing beyond our modern understanding no matter what some people would like you to think. Eastern techniques of iron making used charcoal, and also did not separate the slag from the iron. The result is a high phospherous content in the Iron which makes it inferior in quality, but incapable of bonding with oxygen. Instead, the Iron Pillar is bonding with hydrogen, creating a very thin black film instead of thick red rust.
That's a long way from proving that any advanced metalurgical knowledge is contained in the VS.

What you are doing is, is reading with your eyes closed. That's not criticism. That incompetency.

Indigo, you hold yourself in far too high regard. You are not the pinnacle of scholarship, and you look ridiculous when you make these petty assaults on the credibility of other people who investigate this topic and come to conclusions other than your own. You may do a lot of reading, but there's more to research than that. Sound scholarship must rely on credible sources, cite hard evidence where possible, not draw unwarranted conclusions, and above all not indulge in logical fallacies when forming those those conclusions (such as the quote from you which I have included in my sig line).
Let's see the hard evidence- let's see direct quotes from the VS- let's see what is produced when we follow the instructions in the VS to the letter. I'll give you a hint; there is a picture of it in my avatar.

Yeah, I know the burden of proof lies with me and I have provided heaps of evidence to satisfy that condition.

And that, my friends, is why the prosecutor can't also be on the jury.

Vagabond,
Honestly, you have no idea at all. You don't even come within a mile of the wisdom and knowledge of the Vedic civilisation. I see you as I see children, seriously. You just don't have the capacity to understand yet or appreciate complexity. It's just right over your head.

Leave the scholarly discussion to the scholars. Go and do something you are capable of. Hmmm.

I always glow with pride when I am childishly assaulted by biggots who have no concern for the facts. I thank you; you have made my day. There are two ways for a person to know they are making sense: The first is when he is praised by the wise. The second is when he is condemned by fools. Now I have recieved both.

Vagabond,

It's right next to the physical evidence for vimanas Indigo.

You missed the point again didn't you? Uncle Joe has been saying to me "there is no physical evidence for vimanas"
I am simply giving him a taste of his own ignorance

As for the rest of your post. I am not going to even bother responding to it.
You still have yet to provide the evidence for the secret sanskrit shadow conspiracy of yours by the organizations
I have shown above. I am not going to cover a word by you, until you can.

You still not have not provided a line of evidence for your
claims. So your points are not worth looking at. I am not going to
give you the chance to pretend you know what you're talking about,
after your ridiculous and slanderous claims

Next time we talk. We talk, when you can actually back your claims up.
Otherwise, you do you know what you look like, making such claims
and then not backing them up with evidence. Otherwise, I want a formal retraction of your proclaimation of "debunking the VS" and an apology to the people's intelligence whom you have insulted with your campaign.

You know I could parapharse your racist and foolish statements and advertising them for all to see. However, I won't. Because, one, I don't consider you important enough for that. And two, I don't want to spoil my signature by putting your name in it. There is also a third, perhaps the most important: my time at ATS does not revolve around this topic or this subject.

As for calling me "bigoted" you are the one whose brought into question the credibility of an entire race of people, based on their race. You have no right to call anyone a bigot. However, I could easily call you out as racist and a complete utter hypocrit. I could call you a fool for claiming something you have not even proven. I could call you a lot of things. And it would not be an insult or a judgement. It would be an observation. Meanwhile, I'll just call you vagabond.

You have shown the same mentality of the Christian missionaries of the colonial era. Incidentally, you're Christian aren't you?

[edit on 25-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Now, do you understand why I call your kind pseudoskeptics.

Go and read the threads "vedic physics" and "Proof: Advanced ancient civilisation existed" and come back to me.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

What makes you so arrogant to think that I should go picking through your old posts on different threads to back up your claims? Half your posts are like copy and paste spam anyway. If you want to make a point on this thread then back it up on this thread. If you look back to Vagabond's first post it concerned the provenance of the VS, why don't you stick to that.

How exactly do you define "pseudoskeptics" anyway? I couldn't find it in my dictionary.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Next time we talk. We talk, when you can actually back your claims up.

By what standard, yours? India allows misguided individuals blinded by religious ideas to waste government money on ridiculous pursuits- that's your "proof". Of course no other nation would pour money into unnecessary task of debunking India's illusions (in fact I'm guessing that the Russians are all to happy to see India's MOD acting so foolishly, as it ensures India's continued purchase of Russian aircraft), so naturally my evidence will not be of the same sort as yours.

However, intelligent people here who I have a great deal of respect for seem to think that my research into the writing of the VS, and my discovery of an illustration from it which obviously most believers would prefer never saw the light of day, does in fact constitute "backing up" my claims.

Otherwise, you do you know what you look like

I look like I've finally managed to reverse the nature of our relationship. I've outgrown your foolish games and have not allowed myself to become personally upset or frustrated with the discussion, and now it is you who are becoming quite apparently annoyed and trying t storm off in a self-righteous huff. To be honest, it's quite fun to watch- you must have loved talking to me before I got used to dealing with you.

Otherwise, I want a formal retraction of your proclaimation of "debunking the VS" and an apology to the people's intelligence whom you have insulted with your campaign.

I'd venture a guess that nobody of considerable intelligence has been insulted by my "campaign". You might do better to request that I apologize for offending the pride of Indian and Hindu nationalists, but even then you might as well request a pink elephant, because I couldn't possibly come up with a legitimate one.

You know I could parapharse your racist and foolish statements and advertising them for all to see.

You make a regular habit of paraphrasing, twisting, and outright making up statements from me, you just don't put them in your signature. By the way my signature does not contain a paraphrasing of your words. I copied and pasted that from the very last sentence of Post Number: 1262807 (post id: 1284700) in the first page of this thread.

However, I won't. Because, one, I don't consider you important enough for that. And two, I don't want to spoil my signature by putting your name in it. There is also a third, perhaps the most important: my time at ATS does not revolve around this topic or this subject.

Far be it from me to waste your time M' Lord. Please do continue on with your business and bother somebody more worthy than myself on some topic more worthy than this one. -Makes an exaggerated bow with a flourish-

As for calling me "bigoted" you are the one whose brought into question the credibility of an entire race of people, based on their race.

Allow me to remind you that we have had what you might call a "running battle" for quite some time on this topic, and this is not the first thread in which it has come up. You have repeatedly made claims that "Aryans" (although you mean Hindu/Indians because you ignore the Iranian half of the Indo-Aryan, aka Aryan identity) are intellectually/culturally superior. This is directly linked to your revisionist history relating to the Vedas and the VS, which do in fact have their basis in Indian nationalism and the desire to glorify their ancestors over their British conquerors.
Before you deny your bigotry, you might want to read an old quote of yours. www.abovetopsecret.com...

posted on 28-2-2005 at 04:40 Post Number: 1205088 (post id: 1226981) Originally posted by Indigo Child: Furthermore, and this is where religion and politics come in, accepting a single Aryan masterace of pagan origin, is too hard for our historians to swallow. So, what they do, is work around accepting the obvious, create all these imaginary proto cultures and languages - unnecessarily mulitply quanitiies, because they are too intellectually shallow, dishonest and spineless to face the truth.

Later in that same post you say

The Aryans are the master race. The vedas are the master knowledge. Now, some prominent Christian scholars have been honest enough to admit this. They did not jump on the imperialist bandwagon.

There is a cultural bias affecting Indian scholarship which stems from their displeasure with having been a British Colony, and your statements show that you share in it. Everyone does this and it's vital to good scholarship to recognize it and account for it. British academia slandered the Indians because they couldn't handle knowing that their ancestors had needed to borrow anything culturally from anybody else. Americans virtually ignore the Russian role in WWII to cope with the treat Russia posed during the Cold War. India glorifies its ancient roots and at times attempts to slander the West to cope with the fact that they were under the thumb of the British Empire not all that long ago. With any of these biases we have to recognize them and take the way people present their own story with a grain of salt. That's not racism on my part- that's denying the ignorance of blatant cultural bias which interferes with the presentation and analysis of facts.

You have no right to call anyone a bigot. However, I could easily call you out as racist and a complete utter hypocrit. I could call you a fool for claiming something you have not even proven. I could call you a lot of things. And it would not be an insult or a judgement. It would be an observation. Meanwhile, I'll just call you vagabond.

Oh don't flatter yourself. You just called me those things- admit it. You have this somewhat unhealthy obsession with who is being "a child" and who is being "the adult", so you take the time to thinly veil an attack. It smacks of a child trying oh so hard to pass himself off as a mature adult. Go ahead, call me a few names if it makes you feel better. You know, I stutter- i bet you could get a lot of mileage out of that. Go ahead my son, cut loose.

You have shown the same mentality of the Christian missionaries of the colonial era. Incidentally, you're Christian aren't you?

Actually I am what you might call an agnostic. I don't know much of anything about God, and even if I did, how would I know that I could trust him? (and I don't want to hear a bunch of semantics about agnosticism being a self-contradictory profession of belief if there do happen to be any Christians around here.)
In my life time I have been a baptist Christian, a "satanist" (not from the standpoint that I glorified Satan but from the standpoint that I believed in and vilified a god of some kind- though not necessarily the Christian god), and last but not least an agnostic.
I'm sorry that you don't get to pin the "arrogant Christian anti-Indian bias" label on me, but you don't. I'm not against you because you're from a different country than me. I'm against you because you're arrogant and make no sense.

This thread is not a constructive discussion of VS. It is turned into a personal war. This is disappointing, as I honestly thought we could have scholarly discussion, even when I know who I was talking too. So, again I will take the initative and assume the role of an adult, to get this thread back on track.

India allows misguided individuals blinded by religious ideas to waste government money on ridiculous pursuits- that's your "proof". Of course no other nation would pour money into unnecessary task of debunking India's illusions (in fact I'm guessing that the Russians are all to happy to see India's MOD acting so foolishly, as it ensures India's continued purchase of Russian aircraft), so naturally my evidence will not be of the same sort as yours.

This is your statement. It is discrimination based on racial pretexts. It is accusing highly reputable, accomplished and established organizations of an entire race of a conspiracy. You, even go as far as saying that no other nation would do this. Now, Vagabond, back up this statement so we can resume discussion. If you can't; it ends here, with your reputation in further tatters.

Everytime anyone looks at your avatar, we are going to be reminded of how you were challenged to prove this and you could not. You are looking very very bad.

As for your 'research' on VS. It's a damp squib compared to others, including mine. All you have done is rehashed what has been researched and documented on ADA. Mate, the first time you dicussed VS, you proclaimed that Maharishi Baradwaja was some guy in the 20th century. Just a few months ago you were here claiming ancient nuclear wars. That tells us a lot about your 'research'

Basically, all you need to do is doubt something, and that is as good as any other research. Yeah, keep kidding yourself kid.

And when I say Aryans are the master race, which is my belief, I am not saying Aryans are the Hindus/Indians, I am saying that I have reason to believe that they are the root of the current human civilisation, including that of Iranians and others. I am not the only one who shares this belief.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
There may have been more still. It is likely that the Samranga Sutradhara by King Bhoja, was the main text used, as it descibes the Mercury engine in great detail. This is composed of some 200 stanzas on every aspect of air travel.

Since you have been so kind to do this before, could you cite some of the ORIGGINAL stanzas (and not the ones from the International Academy of Sanskrit Research)? I would be most interested in seeing the stanzas.

Meanwhile, I'll simply comment on this particular quote from the Institute:

"Inside the circular air frame, place the mercury-engine with its solar mercury boiler at the aircraft center. By means of the power latent in the heated mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in a most marvellous manner. Four strong mercury containers must be built into the interior structure. When these have been heated by fire through solar or other sources the vimana (aircraft) develops thunder-power through the mercury." (British Indologist William Clarendon)

MMmmkay... now in looking up things, I find that Mercury does have a vaporization point of about 357°C (about 674°F) and a density of 13.55 grams per cubic centimeter. It's excessively toxic, too.

Several science papers (like this one: cpat.ups-tlse.fr... that is full of scary mathematics) say that the temperature at which mercury turns to plasma is 2,000 degrees Kelvin (not Farenheit... Kelvin.)

Since this is a Solar device, the solar furnace (which is not a laser) has to be producing temperatures in this range: www.madsci.org...

In our current technology, we can heat mercury plasma under 200 atmospheres to 5,000 degrees (making an incredible light). The huge problem with this is that mercury is extremely corrosive and tends to eat away at everything and etch glass:
www.lti.uni-karlsruhe.de...

Presumably this is no problem, because a solar power plant can construct a solar furnace that heats to 30,000 degrees:
www.gstt.org...

So... questions that should be answered:
How does the thing fly if the sun is occluded (rainy, cloudy, nighttime)? An aircraft that can only fly at local solar noon isn't terribly useful.

What is this "tornado" composed of? In other words, the scripture should say which element it is forcing out in a tornado like fashion. I'd appreciate the translated scriptural references.

Also -- where did the mercury come from? I've hunted for mine sources in India and find none there, and no ancient mines for cinnibar. Perhaps you can enlighten me where they got the several tons of mercury sulfide from to extract the mercury from for the plasma?

Are there any direct scriptural references to the structure of the motor and the mercury containing tubes? Technology like that of the Iron Pillar wouldn't have withstood the mercury plasma -- as you can see from the first paper, it would have burned through that kind of material like a plasma knife through butter.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Of course no other nation would pour money into unnecessary task of debunking India's illusions

You, even go as far as saying that no other nation would do this.

As usual, you twist my words to suit your purpose and refuse to answer a very simple question. Running around in circles over tangent points and calling me a racist and a fool seems to be easier for you than just answering a common sense question that I asked way back in the beginning. Why couldn't Shastry dictate the drawing of at least a somewhat aerodynamic frame? The man clearly didn't so much as understand the concept of lift- we drew a picture that looks something like an outdated iron-clad warship with birdlike wings on it.

Back to what I actually said though, as opposed to your manipulation of it, I did not say that no other nation would waste money on a ridiculous concept. I said that it is not in anybody's interest to debunk the VS, so there will be no governmental institutions from any nation which invest heavily debunking the VS. I point this out in order to explain that the fact that you have sources from these prestigious government organizations and I do not does not speak against the validity of my point- the nature of the evidence will be different.

I make no pretense to being as knowledgeable as people like Byrd. I do not pretend to know the subject in extensive detail. What I do claim is this: You made an incredible claim. I went to the source to see how much of it was certifiably true. I made common sense observations. Among these observations are 1. The VS as we have it today did not exist until after the Wright Brothers flew. 2. The man who dictated the writing of this manual on aeronautics later turned around and dictated technical drawings of aircraft that could never get into the air.

I may not be world class scholar, but I'm intelligent enough to follow up on something and apply simple common sense to it. You enjoy getting into the nitty gritty of this stuff and rattling off these really impressive bibliographies for claims that you can't defend against common sense questions. If that's the standard for scholarship, I'll be happy to remain an above average yokel, because I may not be the leading expert in most subjects, but more often than not I can tell the flowers from the fertilizer at least.

Now, Vagabond, back up this statement so we can resume discussion. If you can't; it ends here, with your reputation in further tatters.

My reputation is what it is. I'm not here to recruit followers or win WATS or anything like that. I enjoy getting a little mental exercise from these discussions, and lately also to enjoy toying with you over your precious racially motivated revisionism.

Everytime anyone looks at your avatar, we are going to be reminded of how you were challenged to prove this and you could not. You are looking very very bad.

Strange, it's gotten more compliments than any avatar I've ever had. Apparently you have badly overestimated the number of Indian nationalists on ATS- everyone else seems to be either indifferent or entertained.

All you have done is rehashed what has been researched and documented on ADA.

What can I say- I didn't exactly have to search high and low to find a glaring deficiency in the logic of your argument for the VS as an advanced aeronautics manual.

Mate, the first time you dicussed VS, you proclaimed that Maharishi Baradwaja was some guy in the 20th century.

Indeed I did. I made the mistake of assuming that you and your sources were accurate in crediting him with the authorship of VS. VS was penned in the 20th century. The obvious conclusion was that he was a 20th century figure.
A short time later it came to my attention that Baradwaja's connection to the VS was completely unfounded- based only on Shastry's imagination. The crucial point however was never in dispute; The VS is a 20th century work, which in fact just happened to be started the same year the Wright Brothers realized the possibility of flight.

Just a few months ago you were here claiming ancient nuclear wars. That tells us a lot about your 'research'

Yes it does. It demonstrates that when the evidence overwhelmingly shows that I am wrong, I am man enough to accept that and deny ignorance. You'd probably be amazed just how often I am wrong.(well, maybe you wouldn't considering your opinion of me- most people would be) So by all means, waste your life rehashing each of the million times I've ever been wrong about something. At the end of the day, I was willing to give in to logic and accept the fact that I had been wrong. You on the other hand are pouting, calling names, and refusing to even address a simple question because you can't seem to live with the possibility that you may also be wrong, just as I have been in the past on this very same subject.

And when I say Aryans are the master race, which is my belief, I am not saying Aryans are the Hindus/Indians, I am saying that I have reason to believe that they are the root of the current human civilisation, including that of Iranians and others. I am not the only one who shares this belief.
[edit on 25-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

www.abovetopsecret.com...'
Your posts in the Aryan Race thread make it clear that you do not believe Aryans to be the root of human civilization as a whole. You explicitly define them apart from the west and declare the west to be barbaric and uncultured. You display a clear bigotry against the West which seems to be little more than a silly desire to "pay back" the British for ruling over and degrading your people.

Anyway, if you really do plan to show me what an "adult" you are and ignore me, feel free to start whenever. Otherwise I'll be anxiously awaiting your next round of name calling and word twisting.