C'mon you old Farts If you know COBOL You're Essential!

a reply to: JAGStorm

The amount of money it takes to "update" a system (and convert data, and train everyone on the new system, and increase in licenses, and new hardware, and new software, and new programmers, and retiring the old programmers,...) means that cash strapped departments use what they have until it breaks.

The solution at that point is typically a virtual version of the old hardware/software running on modern equipment. The underlying program has not changes. Hence, you end up with modern equipment running a program written in a programming language that nobody remembers!

Happens in most heavily regulated IT departments. Hospitals, oil industry, accounts payable, state and local governments, cannot afford to update each month as new hardware and software is released. Heck, they usually have a mandate by a governance board telling them they can't update anything because of those reasons listed above.

In my current job, when I started, we had an IT manager who said that he would, "Never allow Linux or UNIX" in his department. He is gone. All of our Citrix and Oracle servers, most of our print servers, and the whole GIS systems are either one! Now that you can use a desktop to access most systems, it doesn't really matter what the back end is.

That is why most companies use 3rd party providers for all the HR stuff, so they don't have to deal with upgrades.

My job is to get legacy equipment, in house development, and 3rd party providers all working together so if one party needs to change something it does not crash everybody else's systems. (i.e., I herd cats)

I knew COBOL at one time. And to tell you the truth, if you learn the logic of programming then learning syntax is no big deal. It is all the other things besides programming that you need to know (knowledge of old technologies, who/why systems were designed to function the way they do, etc). That is what they are really asking for, not for somebody to tinker around with a dead language.

Billion dollar idea! Object oriented COBOL... nvm, already done (you build your own objects and kind of self-isolate the code so you only deal with inputs and outputs, the whole thing is reusable). Oh well, back to herding the work from home cats!

originally posted by: projectvxn
I am 35 and have been asked to learn and use B, simula 67, fortran, and COBOL but mostly for research and education.

I remain unsurprised by the notion that governments would still be using systems older than their users to service unemployment claims.

You’d be surprised about how many organizations still use COBOL based ERP applications today.

Not surprised at all. Many modern industries use decades old systems. If it ain't broke don't fix it, and if it is broke just bandaid it for as long as possible. It takes millions upon millions of dollars most of the time (billions sometimes) to get rid of what's already there and replace it with new stuff.

a reply to: Throes

You’d be surprised about how many organizations still use COBOL based ERP applications today.

No, I wouldn't.

a reply to: Phage

What's it called when you don't even use an assembler?

Machine code. All binary, compressed into hexadecimal.

Some people shortened the name to "hell."

TheRedneck

a reply to: Gothmog

Was it published in RUN magazine ?

No. I direct marketed it. Purchases must have been the the 10s of copies.

But I think might have hand typed the assembler from RUN.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I knew COBOL at one time. And to tell you the truth, if you learn the logic of programming then learning syntax is no big deal. It is all the other things besides programming that you need to know (knowledge of old technologies, who/why systems were designed to function the way they do, etc). That is what they are really asking for, not for somebody to tinker around with a dead language.

Agree 100%
esp this part

It is all the other things besides programming

a reply to: TheRedneck

The only place I use binary these days is PLCs.

I can't imagine writing software in straight machine code.

Not a level of hell I've been to, thankfully.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I still can't turtle..

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TheRedneck

The only place I use binary these days is PLCs.

I can't imagine writing software in straight machine code.

Not a level of hell I've been to, thankfully.

I grew up on hex.. binary was just the icing..ripping Rob Hubbard tunes from games I haxed.. c# hah.. noobs go back to vb6pro..

I still even use DOS.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
These systems arent updated because they work, more importantly they will contain zero of the vulnerabilities that newer frameworks / stacks contain.

That's a fact. Today's script kiddies do not have a clue about how these systems were built, and how many are still around for the same reason... ultra reliability. They are firmly entrenched in both state and federal government and many are untouchable. They are virtualized , massively replicated and you write API's to communicate with them because their front-end interfaces cannot , and will not, be modified.

a reply to: charlyv

ultra reliability

Until there aren't enough people that know how to use them...
Like.............hmmmmmmmmm
NOW

originally posted by: underpass61
How about FORTRAN people?

The last time I used FORTRAN was 1973.

a reply to: TrustedTruth

These days I do light scripting and light c++ for arduino projects and other microcontroller applications. I mostly just edit existing code to fit my needs.

I'm not anywhere near low level systems programming. That seems to be the purview of some of the older guys in here.

a reply to: projectvxn

Only because we had no choice. For me it was to get graphics to go fast enough.

Visual Basic works for me now. Can even do some pretty good graphics with it. Also, it's free.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: JAGStorm

Weren't these idiots supposed to "modernize" their systems away from COBOL after Y2K? That's 20+ years of criminally negligent "public service" IMO.

Nope.
OSes can handle any year.
It is the BIOS (CMOS) that had the world terrified.

64 bit os should I think 32 bit linux may still be susceptible to 2038 bug.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TheRedneck

The only place I use binary these days is PLCs.

I can't imagine writing software in straight machine code.

Not a level of hell I've been to, thankfully.

That's why I love working with Rockwell software. The newer stuff.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
These systems arent updated because they work, more importantly they will contain zero of the vulnerabilities that newer frameworks / stacks contain.

There is one reason they haven't been updated

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Did some work for a company using Wang computers, monochrome monitors, and continuous form printers in the late nineties because they were too cheap to upgrade. I think they only upgraded when they couldn't find parts.
This was a company doing several hundred million in revenues. Just cheap. "It still works"

a reply to: Phage

PERfectly said.

IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
PROGRAM-ID. ABOVETOPSECRET

PERFORM.
DISPLAY 'THERE IS A LOT OF OLD CODER GEEKS AROUND ATS.'
END-PERFORM

I hate COBOL.