Hidden Racism

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posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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Tonight at work, a thought struck me. We, in America, say that we are no longer predjudice, for the most part, but take a look with me at racism in the south, expecially. It's there if you choose to look.

I was outside reading in my car while taking a smoke break. It's a habbit I've come to love, considering most of the people I work with are too dumb to carry on a coherent conversation for more than 3 minutes at a time. I finished up a smoke and stepped out of the car to go talk for a moment with my boss about what all needed to be done before closing. As I walked up to her, I caught a bit of what they were talking about. Inter-racial relationships. Most of the girls in my area, that I work with, are involved in multi-racial relationships.

They were asking another co-worker what they thought was wrong with it, and, she replied that "she wasn't brought up that way." No biggie, right? She has a 17 year old daughter who is interested in a guy of a different race. Big trouble, for that family at least.

As I approached them, they all turned to me. "What do you think of multi-racial relationships?" Now, I'd never pondered this question, really. For me, if I love someone and they love me, then, it's all good. For me, personally, I've never met someone of a different race that I have fallen totally head over heals with, but, you never know. It could happen.

Well, as I stood there and thought of it, only one statement came to mind. It all comes down to free will. If someone tries to impose their values on their children, the child will likely retaliate and go the opposite direction you want them too. A child has to choose what path in this life they wish to follow. My response? "Everyone has to choose the path in life they wish to walk. It all comes down to free will. When we try to impose our values on another, then they will likely run in the opposite direction out of spite."

Now, her response was quiet shocking to me, who has never really pondered the thoughts that began circling in my mind during that brief exchange. She would "disown" her daughter for becoming involved with a man of a different race. In my mind, this shows either a lack of true love for her daughter, or a deep seated hatred. I think, personally, that in this area it is a deep seated hatred.

See, I come from the mountains of Central/Northern VA. The town I live in is fairly small, but we are still close enough to a large city to be somewhat of a tourist town, mainly people en-route to DC. You would think that this being a major traffic area people would be more open, but, guess again.

Now, how do I get from multi-racial relationships to racism? Isn't it fairly evident that if a mother is willing to disown her daughter over a black guy then she is a rasist in some form. I think so. Also, some of the people that I live near think that "black men in sports are using so many steroids" because they are tougher in most sports.

Anyways, I just thought I would see what other people's take on this is. Is racism so deeply engrained in most people in the south? What is really the big deal about multi-racial relationships? Isn't it enough that a couple loves each other, do they also have to have the same pigmentation to fall in love?

Any thoughts?

regs




posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:02 AM
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Interesting post. Some of know and many do not that my wife is Asian (Vietnamese/Chinese) to be exact. So in a sense, she is the product of a mixed race marriage as well as my self. (Despite popular belief there are deep differences between the cultures in Asia). And so naturally I have my take on the issue from perhaps a different perspective.

We live in the San Francisco Bay Area where the politics are decidedly left of center and mixed race couples are common enough that it seldom merits a second glance. However, once we leave the confines of the Bay Area we notice a often subtle change. It was apparent when we spent a few years in Fresno, and we had some issue of none to subtle racism. The biggest disappointment came from my relatives in Oklahoma who lets just say we have not gone back to visit.

Racism is not exclusive to the Southern areas of the United States, but rather is a subtle underpinning just about anywhere. However, the stereotype of Southerners is one that is and will continue to be hard for the nation as a whole to shake.

Love is Love in whatever shape or form



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:07 AM
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Coming from a mixed raced family this might seem strange but both my parents discouraged, but didn't forbid, me from interracial dating. Their reason - other people's hate. They had a difficult time getting housing when they were first married, they put up with crap from both their families and didn't want me or my siblings to have to deal with garbage they did. I understood their concern but it fell on deaf ears - we all dated who we were interested in - love (and lust for that matter) is colorblind.

I believe the although racism is still prevalent, not just in the US, I think it is dying. It may take another two or three generations to disappear entirely but I do think it is slowly fading away. Think about it - 30 years ago, how many mixed raced couples did you see compared to today. Hopefully it will be reduced to a footnote in history.

My thoughts,
B.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:08 AM
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There are biggots and rascists to be found all over this country. Not just in the south.
I think that if someone makes you really happy and you love them, it does'nt matter what color they are.






[edit on 12-3-2005 by elaine]



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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Good thoughts, Bleys, but, I just wonder if it is dying or lurking just beneath the surface. See, if something is buried deep enough, it can always be dug up. Is racism dying out, or is it just being buried deeply into the engraining of the human psyche. Think of it. In some areas of this country (I use my own country because I don't know how it is in other countries), there is still racial tension on all sides...especially on multi-racial relationships. The "whites" think that a different race is (I hate to use this term because I don't feel this way personally) "inferior" to them, so "why should that girl be hooking up with that person?" The "blacks" think that the person who dates out of their race are "traitors" and that they should just find a "black girl" to hook up with. I thought that the movie "Save the Last Dance" hit it on the whole race issue. (Good movie btw. If you haven't seen it, I recomend.)

Personally, to me the whole issue is nonexistent. I don't see a problem with it, personally, and intend on urging my daughter to just be blind to the skin color of someone.

No, that isn't how I was raised either. See, in high school, my dad forbade me to invite any friends of mine over if they weren't (excuse the expression, but his words) "lily white". I grew up in a small town in Southwest Virginia, and, truth be told, I had never seen anyone of a different race until we moved to Tennessee. I honestly thought that the black people I saw on TV were just using makeup or something. I know it sounds strange now, but it's the truth.

My dad, as a young man, was a klansmen, so, he had very strong oppinions on the subject. I grew up in a home where I had to listen to racial slurs from him all the time. How is it that I have no known predjudices toward other races, I'm not sure. I think it's just that, though the pressure was there to turn out just like he did, I decided to honesly look at the person and their character, not the skin tone.

regs



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:37 AM
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Well, I'm going to take some crap for this, but here it goes. For me personally, I disagree with crossing race lines. I feel that we are 2 different cultures (white and black), and I dont think mixing them is a great idea.

Perhaps my view is different of the black race. I live about 1 mile away from Gary, Indiana. It was the murder capital of the US for 2 or 3 years in a row (per capita), and it's at least 90% black populated. I drive thru on my way to work everyday. It is disgusting. The roads are covered in potholes. There are groups of kids walking the streets in the middle of the day, when they should be in school. If I am at a stop light and look twice at someone standing at the light, they start looking at me, nodding their head and asking me what I need.

On my way home, barely a street light is lit, the prostitutes walk the streets freely and the criminals are even more brash. I mean, it is pure trash.

Now go a mile to where I live, and its totally different. All the street lights work, and roads are paved. The yards are kept nice. Theres a strong police presence and little if any crime. My town is probably 85% white, the rest mixed.

My point is that I would not my daughter bringing home some piece of garbage from Gary, telling me she is going to marry him. No way. Things may be different where you people are at, but over here its terrible. But if I say how I feel, well that makes me a racist. What does it make the scum that inhabit that filth-ridden city? Why am I forced to accept them? I'm not.

The only thing that makes it better, is that it rarely happens. You'll have one get knocked up here and there, but for the most part, they see these people for what they are, and leave em alone. The ones who don't get what they deserve. Some people just can't be taught.

I think that most people who think all races can just get along so perfectly are way off. Odds are they havent seen both sides. For the blacks who get an education and make something of themselves, I say "right on!", even to the ones who are average "joes" going to work and paying the bills, I say, "keep it up!". But to the pond scum over here, that you truely would have to see to fully understand....hell no! Come to my house, and I'll great ya with a 12 gauge!

Maybe if I was from somewhere else, I would feel differently. Hell, when I was younger, I did. But after years of having it shoved in my face, and being told, I'm a racist if it sickens me, I say "to bad!".

Look at the man-hunt today for that guy who shot the judge. Alls the news would describe him as was "6"1, 200 lbs" nothing about being black! Thats racist, to single him out !! Nevermind the people he just killed, we don't want to offend anyone..crap!

Anyrate, I'm off point now. I'll finish. If my daughter wants to marry a black man, this is what will gain my approval. 1)Finished secondary education 2)Employed. 3) Speaks fluent english. A slight accent is ok, but no ebonics. 4) Has no prior criminal convictions above a misdemeanor. 5) No children 6) Has no desire to play professional sports or rap at all.

If he has all that, I'll give my blessing. If not, Ill just kiss her on the head and wish her good luck. Silently disappointed.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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I honestly believe that racism is a learned behavior and like any learned behavior it must be nurtured in an open enviroment. 30 years ago you could find that enviroment alive and well in most communities - today it's harder to find or to be open about. A child that sees daddy the racist pig at home and daddy that kisses his boss's arse that happens to be another race in public realizes that there is something wrong with daddy and not the other race. There are some exceptions of course, but like you noted in your story - your coworkers beliefs surprised you. If we keep racism in the closet, so to speak, it cannot thrive and will eventually die.

I am curious if there are really any "purebloods" in the US anymore. God knows our ancestors came from all over and have mixed and mingled more than a few times with one an another. Wouldn't it be nice if the American mutt, or World, became its own unique race - one that embraces many cultural beliefs, traditions and it was an individual's character that made the first, last and only impression?

Bleys.

edit to add:

spliff - I saw your post and had to respond. I see a father who wants the best man for his daughter - not the best white man. I am assuming that you wouldn't want a white man to have a record or be uneducated, etc. Am I right? That's what we want - the best for our kids. I feel so fortunate to have had mixed race parents. I got the best of three different cultures and those traditions have all been amalgamated into quaint little family customs. Judge the man, or the woman, for his actions not his color - you could be pleasantly surprised.

B.

[edit on 3/12/05 by Bleys]



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:51 AM
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Bleys---> Thats pretty much it. I dont hate the black man on a whole. But up here, its bad to say the least. Anyrate though...ya, the best for her.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:53 AM
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Sometimes, it's hidden in plain sight:




I guess Google and eBay UK have fixed the problem.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:57 AM
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Oh wow man....that took me a second to catch...wow....

[edit on 12-3-2005 by spliff4020]



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:57 AM
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Spliff, I'm not just talking about the "blacks" out there, I'm refering to all races. Would you feel the same way if it was a Chinese man? How about a Native American? Or, here's the biggie, what if it was a Middle Eastern man, who, just by chance, was a Muslim? What about a Norweigen? An Australian? A New Zealander? There are all different types of races out there.

Now, I understand your position on the area where you live in. Heck, there are some areas in this country where I don't like going through, but, how can you consciously blame the kids who's parents live there? If the young man was living at home still, maybe still in school, and just couldn't afford to move out on his own yet. He still has to work like crazy to make it, to save the money to be able to make it on his own, would you still think that way about him dating your daughter. He's trying to make it, remember. He's in school, for, say, Business Managment. He has dreams and desires and want's to provide for your daughter, but, you just said that if he came from the area by your home, you'd greet him with a shotgun.

One thing I've realized, looking back on my childhood, is that everything my mom and dad told me not to do, I ended up doing. Heck, the reason I'm off pot today is that they let me do it, even encouraged it. Guess some things they wanted me to do, with them, ended up bettering me in the long run. I'm clean now because I rebelled. Rebellion is common in most kids, so, if you hold the position of her not mixing with the kids from that area of town, she likely will. Just to rebel against you.

Racism is something that needs to be recognized in our lives. Have you ever driven down the street in a major city. You see some kids hanging out on a curb. They happen to be "black". They huddle together talking, and, the first thought that crosses a lot of people's minds is that they are up to no good. What if they are just waiting for a ride, or are just out hanging around or deciding what they are going to do that evening. Maybe what movie they are going to or who's house they are gonna hang out at.

The preconcieved notions in our mind are what blind us to the character someone could posess. The beauty inside of someone of another race. The opprotunity to get to know a culture through a friendship.

regs



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 01:59 AM
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FredT said it best when he mentioned Asians and their racism toward each other. The Chinese, Japanese and Koreans have as much hatred for each other as do white and black in America. This is funny because Americans generally see Asians as one group. The point is, racism is a creation of the mind.

As it says in the Bhagavad Gita:

Just as you throw out used clothes
and put on other clothes, new ones,
the Self discards its used bodies
and puts on others that are new.


When you realize that the human soul is eternal, it seems very silly to assume that you are constantly being reborn as the race you are now. I'm fine with being reborn as black or asian. It'd still be me.

As for parents disapproving of their kids' interracial dating, I'd say it's no more stupid than most of the things parents do. My point is, most parents are usually dumb and have prejudices or outdated modalities. It's the job of kids to go beyond what their parents know. If you're really concerned with what your mom and dad think, you've got bigger problems, IMO.



[edit on 12-3-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 02:18 AM
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There is no doubt that racism is learned behvior. I grew up in an area where racism was rampant and it was hard not to buy into this mind set. In fact, up until the age of 14 I had no contact with any African Americans or any minority for that matter. My elementary school was, unfortunately. a sheltered world of all caucasion children. It wasn't until Jr. high school were we introduced into the real world. Growing up you would here adults use slang to describe minorities and as a chld it was easy to pick up on these feelings. It took a lot of deep thought, and deprogramming, to get by the beliefs of my elders and realize that they were nothing more than the product of fear and confusion.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 05:29 AM
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Wanna see xenophobes ?
Just move to Switzerland.
Everybody hate each other.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
Anyrate, I'm off point now. I'll finish. If my daughter wants to marry a black man, this is what will gain my approval. 1)Finished secondary education 2)Employed. 3) Speaks fluent english. A slight accent is ok, but no ebonics. 4) Has no prior criminal convictions above a misdemeanor. 5) No children 6) Has no desire to play professional sports or rap at all.

If he has all that, I'll give my blessing. If not, Ill just kiss her on the head and wish her good luck. Silently disappointed.


I read your whole post, and while you say you are not racist, it certainly stinks to me of blatant racism to me. Quick question: Would you have the same 6 requirements if your daughter was to marry a white man?



[edit on 12-3-2005 by paranoia]



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by regs
Tonight at work, a thought struck me. We, in America, say that we are no longer predjudice, for the most part



I don't see it that way at all! Who says we're no longer racist? I see it on a daily bases....it really sickens me! I have never been able to understand why anyone can be against someone else just because of a different skin color......a firned of mines sister is in a mixed
relationship, you wouldn't believe what they experience...utter stupidity!


Note: Rolly eyes because it shouldn't even have to thought of that way at all....there shouldn't have to be a distinction to describe couple of different skin color!



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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What people need to remember is that just because you CHOOSE to do something, doesnt mean, I have to accept it or like it. Gays are free to do whatever they want in public. Doesnt mean I have to approve of it. I could care less about hurting their feelings. They sicken me when I see it. Does anyone care? No. Why should I? Simple. In the restaurant I work at, we have a game. Whenever a black man and white woman come in to eat, we watch for 2 things. How large is the woman, and who pays. The first flucuates a bit, although most are pretty overweight. The second has yet to differ. The white woman always pays. Hmmm. Interesting. Ohhh..but if I dare say that...I'm a racist.

I dont worry about hurting anyones feelings. I just state what I see. Someone asked if my qualifications were the same for a white man marrying my daughter. I wish I could say "Yes!" but I cant. Honestly, I'd be a little more willing to let a white guy slide with a thing or two, than I would a black man. Again, just an opinion. Ahh, but I encounter blacks EVERYDAY that are prejudiced against the white man. I smile and treat them the same way I do white people because its my job to. But the attitude is huge! But hey--its their turn now, right?



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by Krpano
Wanna see xenophobes ?
Just move to Switzerland.
Everybody hate each other.


I'm surprised to hear that.

I've heard the Japanese are very xenophobic though and look down on mixed relationships.



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by regs
Tonight at work, a thought struck me. We, in America, say that we are no longer prejudice, for the most part, but take a look with me at racism in the south, especially. It's there if you choose to look.


Are you saying its not anywhere else? Why are you singling out the South? There are more skinheads, neo-Nazis and kluckers in the north then the south.

I live in the south and cant think of ANY family that doesn't have mixed marriages in them. There are a few die hards on both sides, I have heard blacks say the same about marrying whites.

Recently on one of the cable channels it showed Flavor Flav and Brigitte Nielson and he took her on stage during a Public Enemy concert and was Blasted for bringing a white person on stage. This was in New York.

Could you imagine the outcry if someone had said you cant bring that black guy in here?

I love you regs but I think you are looking at this through the same old blinders


By that I mean whenever racism is brought up it is just shoved off as a southern white mans sin and no one Else's. While it is true that some southern white men are racists there are also northern black women who are just as bad and eastern Jewish midgets, and western Vietnamese racists, etc.

To claim it is just a Southern problem is to brush off the REAL problem.

[edit on 12-3-2005 by Amuk]



posted on Mar, 12 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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Good point, Amuk....They can do it, and we openly approve of it..hell, we think its funny, but say one little thing back...LOOK OUT! Youre a racist! Oh well....





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