Originally posted by akilles
See, this is the key difference.

I don't have INCONTRIVERTIBLE PROOF that could have sent these men to jail, you see.

There is plenty of evidence, however.
Now, I hate to break it to you, but there aren't too many websites from Bulgaria that discuss who is smuggling drugs and arms over there, but there are a few, and they all discussed Ilia Pavlov's connections to the underworld, so really, you are just ignoring the evidence by ADMITTING to yourself there is none, and that I must be lying.

I'm just done listening to your ramblings until you be able to have a conversation like a big boy. Nothing you say is taken seriusly because of your constant failure to provide evidence. I would let one or two things slide if you had provided evidence for the HUNDREDS of other claims you made, but you have not. Therefore, until you present some kind of evidence of your claims, I will assume nothing you say is true.

OK, since they are so fresh, what have my unproven claims been?

Because Iliya Pavlov is easy pickings. I want to know what did I leave doubt in your mind about before?

Please, feel free to go back 2 months, because I don't think you have even read my posts since then. The response has always been the same.

Originally posted by MrDog
Just a quick question or 2 to sebatwerk!

Any thing you want, brother.

Which part of the masons was formed around the beginning of the 1700's(1715 or 16 I think)? Was that then the York Rite?

In 1717, four of the biggest lodges in England came together to form the Grand Lodge of Englad. In a nutshell, they formed a unified body for Blue Lodge Masonry, what we know as "regular" Freemasonry. That Grand Lodge still exists today, and all lodges in America recognize and are recognized by that Grand Lodge.

The york rite and scottish rite did not officially begin until many years later, but I heard that one of the york rite degrees was originally a degree of regular masonry. Other guys here can tell you more about that.

Was the knights templar part of the original masonic lodges? This would coincide with the 400 years difference you mentioned.

You mean the REAL templars, or the Kinghts templar DEGREES that masons take?

Thanks for giving me sound information about these things as I've been wondering on whether I would feel right in pursuing this path. I'm at an age where I feel I should learn more but as of yet unsure if the masons is my way to enlightenment. The more information I come across and people I talk too, then I'm sure the answer will present itself to me

Freemasonry will not give you enlightenment. Don't be confused, it will not teach you any great truth or earth shatteringn secrets. It will simmply teach you, through EXCELLENT ancient and mystical techniques, the basic lessons of morality and personal excellence.

As you could tell in my early post I was hesitant on what I thought as the upper echelons in the masonic degrees. I was under the impression of corruption and wrong doings.

There really are no upper echelons of masonic degrees. Once you become a 3rd degree master mason, youre at the top. Everything else you do in your masonic career will only serve to add on to your experiences in the first three degrees.

A person can only choose one path from many after seeing what each path offers.

I know. Use your mind and your heart in trying to decide what the correct path is for you. What might be best for me may not be for you, and every person experiences freemasonry differently. That's the beauty of it all.

Originally posted by akilles
OK, since they are so fresh, what have my unproven claims been?

Because Iliya Pavlov is easy pickings. I want to know what did I leave doubt in your mind about before?

Please, feel free to go back 2 months, because I don't think you have even read my posts since then. The response has always been the same.

Are you serious? Think of every time we have asked you for evidence of your claims, and you either ignore our posts or give an excuse as to why you cannot. f you want, I will go through the threads tonight and find a few examples. I am at work now and dont have the time.

In any case, you have been asked to provide proof of your claims AT LEAST 20 TIMES since youve been here, and have not done so. EVERYONE here knows you as a troll for exactly that reason.

Thanks sebatwerk on your reply. You've given me something to think about.

I was referring to the Knights Templar, the military arm of the "Priory of Sion" if that does exist. I watched a program saying documents were forged but there is always two sides.

So the teachings and learning in masonry could be a guide on the way maybe? Like you say "It will simmply teach you, through EXCELLENT ancient and mystical techniques, the basic lessons of morality and personal excellence." That sounds very interesting when you put it like that.

As said before, thanks alot you've given me something to ponder and think over.

Originally posted by MrDog
Thanks sebatwerk on your reply. You've given me something to think about.

That's what I'm here for

I was referring to the Knights Templar, the military arm of the "Priory of Sion" if that does exist. I watched a program saying documents were forged but there is always two sides.

The Templars were warrior monks who protected pilgrims to jerusalem. The Ppriory of Scion has never been proven real. I doubt its existence, so I dont think there is any link between the two. You should require evidence before believing anything you read from conspiray theorists. It's real easy to make a claim, and they seem to get more and more fantastic every day. Some make great stories and make you WANT to believe them. but, as intelligent beings, we demand a more conclusive answer to our questions, not just the one that makes for a good movie.

So the teachings and learning in masonry could be a guide on the way maybe? Like you say "It will simmply teach you, through EXCELLENT ancient and mystical techniques, the basic lessons of morality and personal excellence." That sounds very interesting when you put it like that.

Like weve said many times before, you're not going to learn anything you dont already know (except some passwords and handshakes), but rather you will learn how to put to use those things that you already know. That's why certain people cannot be masons. They do not possess the characteristics necessary to make use of masonry's teachings.

As said before, thanks alot you've given me something to ponder and think over.

I'm very glad that, even as you have an open enough mind to question possible conspiracies and such, you also have the intelligence to know bull$#@% when you see it