Hospitals across U.S. consider universal do-not-resuscitate orders for coronavirus patients

a reply to: neoholographic

If most people have mild symptoms then that's just a few thousand cases.

Maybe those telling you that most cases are mild don't know what they are talking about?

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: Zaphod58

And the amount of equipment and supplies required per case is astronomical.

Our preparation for any pandemic at the corporate/government level has been a joke. Our response to this pandemic has been a joke. Our leaders, on both sides of the aisle, are jokes. We are jokes for allowing ourselves to be led by feckless, chinless, impotent losers.

The Walking Dead was predictive programming. Even the progressive left are arming themselves and getting ready for what comes next.

You are not wrong about the progressive left arming themselves. My wife and I went for our CCW course last night as our local range staff knew we wanted to get them and set up a 1 on 1 expedited course with their instructor. As we were finishing up our paperwork, a new class was coming in and the instructor made a joke at the start “Only when we have national crisis do the liberals come out to get their CCW’s” and two of the students raised their hands and said “That’s me!”. It was in jest and he was lightening the mood, but he also said at the start of our class that he’s been slammed solid the last two weeks with CCW classes. Stoneman-Douglas is 20 minutes up 95 from here and it very much seemed that every progressive left member was calling for the banning of guns in the state, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the two gentlemen last night were part of that.

a reply to: SeektoUnderstand

Yep, you're right. Because of all that other BS, we ought to pretend that for-profit hospitals (as currently regulated) can prepare for a pandemic while the c-band, board, and investors skim all available resources off the top like sweet cream. I'm sure the government will exemplar leadership. I'm sure congress will rise to the occasion (eventually).

The entire structure of base reality has been proven a movie set. Fronts and no backs. Most of us kinda always knew. Some of us (not me) were 100-percent sure. Now we know.

originally posted by: neoholographic
This is getting kind of crazy. I say this because we keep hearing it's mild in most cases.

Hospitals on the front lines of the pandemic are engaged in a heated private debate over a calculation few have encountered in their lifetimes - how to weigh the “save at all costs” approach to resuscitating a dying patient against the real danger of exposing doctors and nurses to the contagion of coronavirus.

The conversations are driven by the realization that the risk to staff amid dwindling stores of protective equipment - such as masks, gowns and gloves - may be too great to justify the conventional response when a patient "codes," and their heart or breathing stops.

www.adn.com...

This level of hysteria and shortage doesn't make sense. Here's the United Stated Statistics.

Coronavirus Cases:
68,489
Deaths:
1,032
Recovered:
394

www.worldometers.info...

First off, if these statistics are right, then nobody is recovering. Only 394 cases where people recovered? That sounds like an insane number to me. It also says 67,063 are active cases and 1,032 deaths!! That means barely anyone who has gotten coronavirus has recovered.

When you listen to Politicians and the media they make it seem like most people have mild or no symptoms and they are okay. Young people can go back to work and dance in the streets.

Also, why aren't we prepared for 68,489 cases?

Look at Emergency Room visits per year.

136.9 million in 2015 to 145.6 million in 2016.

www.acepnow.com...

This is over 12 million ED visits per month. This doesn't include regular Dr. visits for checkups.

Why can't we handle 68,489 cases? What if there was a mild flu outbreak? Would we have to shut everything because of that?

I understand social distancing and the way things started were mild, but now it's total chaos if you believe the media. Look at these headlines on Drudge.

Kathy Griffin hospitalized with 'unbearably painful' symptoms; Blames Trump...
3 BILLION NOW ON LOCKDOWN...
Patients 'charged with attempted murder' for failing to self-isolate...
FAUCI: Virus could become seasonal...
Politicians jockeying for tests find proximity to President is fastest route...
Hospitals consider universal do-not-resuscitate orders...
Distressed Debt Balloons to Almost $1 Trillion, Nears 2008 Peak...
Governors Say Massive Federal Bailout Falls Short...
Economies Already Look Totally Different From Pre-Virus Age...
Rural America watches pandemic erupt in cities as fear grows...
Those who intentionally spread could be charged as terrorists!
How govt can track social media posts to enforce quarantines...
Supermarkets instal protective barriers between staff, customers...
Fired Americans Send Unemployment Websites Crashing Down...
Will California look like Italy soon?
GARCETTI: Water, power will be shut off for businesses that don't close...
NEWSOM: Banks to suspend mortgage payments...
IT BEGINS: TREASURY NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES...
SICK MAP...

MAYOR: HALF OF NEW YORKERS WILL GET INFECTED
MORGUES NEAR CAPACITY
CONGRESS HIDES BAILOUT BILL FROM PUBLIC
SICK TROOPS NOT BEING TESTED

Again, they make it seem like we're in the middle of The Walking Dead on one hand then they say it's mild for most people but only 394 recovered.

Look at it now it has updated

1078 deaths
1850 Recovered

www.worldometers.info...

What I don't understand is why that site took down the percentage???

Looks like alot of fearmongering going on in my opinion...
but that's just me I could be wrong

a reply to: odzeandennz

I was not clear. The coronavirus is not a conspiracy. but the media do profit from creating fear.

originally posted by: DustybudzZ

originally posted by: neoholographic
This is getting kind of crazy. I say this because we keep hearing it's mild in most cases.

Hospitals on the front lines of the pandemic are engaged in a heated private debate over a calculation few have encountered in their lifetimes - how to weigh the “save at all costs” approach to resuscitating a dying patient against the real danger of exposing doctors and nurses to the contagion of coronavirus.

The conversations are driven by the realization that the risk to staff amid dwindling stores of protective equipment - such as masks, gowns and gloves - may be too great to justify the conventional response when a patient "codes," and their heart or breathing stops.

www.adn.com...

This level of hysteria and shortage doesn't make sense. Here's the United Stated Statistics.

Coronavirus Cases:
68,489
Deaths:
1,032
Recovered:
394

www.worldometers.info...

First off, if these statistics are right, then nobody is recovering. Only 394 cases where people recovered? That sounds like an insane number to me. It also says 67,063 are active cases and 1,032 deaths!! That means barely anyone who has gotten coronavirus has recovered.

When you listen to Politicians and the media they make it seem like most people have mild or no symptoms and they are okay. Young people can go back to work and dance in the streets.

Also, why aren't we prepared for 68,489 cases?

Look at Emergency Room visits per year.

136.9 million in 2015 to 145.6 million in 2016.

www.acepnow.com...

This is over 12 million ED visits per month. This doesn't include regular Dr. visits for checkups.

Why can't we handle 68,489 cases? What if there was a mild flu outbreak? Would we have to shut everything because of that?

I understand social distancing and the way things started were mild, but now it's total chaos if you believe the media. Look at these headlines on Drudge.

Kathy Griffin hospitalized with 'unbearably painful' symptoms; Blames Trump...
3 BILLION NOW ON LOCKDOWN...
Patients 'charged with attempted murder' for failing to self-isolate...
FAUCI: Virus could become seasonal...
Politicians jockeying for tests find proximity to President is fastest route...
Hospitals consider universal do-not-resuscitate orders...
Distressed Debt Balloons to Almost $1 Trillion, Nears 2008 Peak...
Governors Say Massive Federal Bailout Falls Short...
Economies Already Look Totally Different From Pre-Virus Age...
Rural America watches pandemic erupt in cities as fear grows...
Those who intentionally spread could be charged as terrorists!
How govt can track social media posts to enforce quarantines...
Supermarkets instal protective barriers between staff, customers...
Fired Americans Send Unemployment Websites Crashing Down...
Will California look like Italy soon?
GARCETTI: Water, power will be shut off for businesses that don't close...
NEWSOM: Banks to suspend mortgage payments...
IT BEGINS: TREASURY NEGATIVE INTEREST RATES...
SICK MAP...

MAYOR: HALF OF NEW YORKERS WILL GET INFECTED
MORGUES NEAR CAPACITY
CONGRESS HIDES BAILOUT BILL FROM PUBLIC
SICK TROOPS NOT BEING TESTED

Again, they make it seem like we're in the middle of The Walking Dead on one hand then they say it's mild for most people but only 394 recovered.

Look at it now it has updated

1078 deaths
1850 Recovered

www.worldometers.info...

What I don't understand is why that site took down the percentage???

Looks like alot of fearmongering going on in my opinion...
but that's just me I could be wrong

I saw that and those statistics are amazing and alarming to me.

Only 1863 now recovered but 72,702 active cases. THAT"S INSANE!!!

How do they measure recovered and active is a question I have.

This would explain why Hospitals are overwhelmed if it's .025% recovery rate. This would overwhelm the system if many of these people need care.

If recovery is this slow, we're in deep trouble. Also, how much residual damage does this cause.

Just think about it. If a million people get it, 25,000 will recover but you will have 975,000 active cases over a long period of time.

I wish they would break down these numbers more like how many active cases require medical care and how many active cases have residual problems that need care. Here's more alarm:

US virus deaths may top 80,000 despite confinement: study

COVID-19 could lead to more than 80,000 deaths in the US and overwhelm hospital capacity nationally as soon as early April even if social distancing measures are respected, new research showed Thursday.

The US death toll for the pandemic has already soared past 1,000, with 68,000 confirmed infections.

Forecasters at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington's School of Medicine analysed the latest COVID-19 data at a local, national and international level.

news.yahoo.com...

I'm telling you, either these people are nuts or the real numbers are being hidden from us. If the recovery rate is that slow, we're doomed. People will die simply because they can't receive care.

I need to search to find out how many active cases need medical care. If anyone finds these numbers before me, please post them.

I'm keeping several graphs of my own, because of the different numbers from my state Dept of Health, the CDCP and The WHO.

Part of the Kookiness with the numbers is that
a) a person can be asymptomatic for as long as 14 days before becoming visibly ill, yet test positive on day 1 or 2

b) most of the people who die, die sometime around days 20-30

c) The WHO says it can take 2 - 8 weeks for a person to be considered fully recovered. Whether the person is still an active carrier 8 weeks after the crisis is still an unanswered question.

Since most of the cases in my region are less than 14 days old, talking about Case Fatality Rates is total speculation. Even moreso for recovery rates.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: carewemust

Frankly, that makes no sense.

If all of these people are recovered and just have mild symptoms then that's just a few thousand cases across the Country.

If that's the case, then why are they talking about not resuscitating COVID patients? Why are they talking about morgues and hospitals being overrun? Why are they having all of these shortages if only a few thousand get really sick?

Either it's being massively overhyped or they're not telling us how serious it really is.

Everyday I become more and more suspicious, things just don't add up.

They don't.

A 0.25% recovery is crazy on top of cases that aren't diagnosed.

This has been going on for a while now and that recovery rate should be higher. We also need to know how many of the active cases require medical attention.

All of these Hospitals aren't overwhelmed by a few thousand cases and a low mortality rate. The slow recovery rate and people who haven't been diagnosed but are sick and visiting the Hospital is what's overwhelming the system.

A Doctor was just on TV talking like it's The Walking Dead out here. It's the slow recovery rate!

Sitting here sipping wine and shaking like a leaf, as I await our nation-wide lock-down in SA at 00:00 tonight.
For more see the thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...
I haven't commented yet, but keeping my jittery peepers on it.

Concerning CPR (which I have performed successfully on my dad before when he had a massive heart-attack in the kitchen), I'm wondering as a lay person (although with a first aid certificate) what the morality and best option is at the moment, for example, while emergency grocery shopping, or even if a lock-down housemate suddenly sickens and collapses.

Is it worth the risk of getting infected by mouth-to-mouth? (Especially being HIV-poz, although until now my treatment means my CD4 is in the 900's.)

For my parents yes, even if at the best of times the success rate of CPR is low (I think 12-20 percents as casual first aid, nevertheless, still significantly better than doing nothing), and if sick will any medical help arrive subsequently?
Although if that happens to somebody you love, it's automatic do-or-die.

For strangers, probably not.
Although you could try and make an impromptu mouth cover with some form of plastic packet or sheet with a hole pocked through it, but that's very dodgy at the moment.

Is that approach moral? I'm not sure.
But so it shall be.

a reply to: neoholographic

What's been missing out in news is about the numbers needing hospital care , demonstrated in Italy and here's the rub.
A third of people who contract the disease need hospital care . They might be alright the first week or so , but then the pnumonia sets in.
This caused a significant u turn in UK policy Last week as it became clear from Italy's very bad news that there's no way of getting (what they thought might work ) herd immunity to something that bad without a shed load of trouble and probably a world ending amount of troubleand deathsin the 50 - 60 % range. The policy is now to stamp it out , end the pandemic by burning it out , hence the lockdown s and they will last until covid' 19 can be eradicated .
The poorer countries in the world are going to lose a lot of people , although almost everybody is now in lockdown .
They doing all the right things to get rid of this pandemic asap , it appears to be the very serious nature of the disease which is clearly driving policy.
We've been told these facts, but they're not ones which the public should be exposed often to , as it's dire straits on the way unless we re very lucky . Staying calm, at home , is very important right now as is washing your hands and NOT going out to the shop just for a newspaper and a packet of sweets