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Who’s to blame for the ventilator and mask shortages . It ain’t us

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posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 11:45 AM
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Seems another piece in the national stockpile's ventilator shortage has been uncovered, and the former multibillion-dollar medical supplier and manufacturer Covidien (which sold to Medtronic in 2015) may be at the root of it.

12 years ago the government started the process under "Project Aura". They took bids, and eventually awarded the contract to Newport Medical Instruments to produce up to 40k new ventilators for the strategic national stockpile.

In April of 2012 things were on pace for market approval for the newly designed and affordable machines in 2013, but in May 2012 Covidien swept in and bought Newport. After that things changed, and apparently producing affordable ventilators wasn't much of a concern anymore. Producing $3k portable ventilators would likely have hurt Covidien's bottom line since they already produced ventilators that cost many times as much in another division of the corporation; so, after requesting (and getting) even more tax dollars, in 2014 Covidien backed out of Newport's government contract with no ventilators delivered.

Hooray for endless corporate acquisitions and consolidations! If ya can't beat 'em, then just buy 'em and shelve the project!
edit on 3/31/20 by redmage because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 11:56 AM
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I love ingenuity... Some of our most brilliant have designed ventilators that costs about 300 bucks to make. If you think about it the normal ones are designed to last for years and years of use at a cost of like 40k each. With these, we will call them pandemic ventilators they can be throwaways, or re-purpose after one use of a few weeks. at about 133 to 1 cost ratio and the ability to mass produce this can be not only the answer today, but from now on as SAR-3 hits us sometime in the next 10 years.



posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
Some of our most brilliant have designed ventilators that costs about 300 bucks to make.


Then there's the process of actually getting market approval for a medical device, and patent trolls.... or just a larger company coming along, buying them out, and shelving the patent/product or hiking up the final price to a "fair market value".

Actual production costs are often just a small part of the equation.
edit on 3/31/20 by redmage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 12:08 PM
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Those who remain in government, passing bills/laws, from one administration/president to another for 8, 10, 15, 20+ years, those are the ones that need to be called out CONGRESS and the HOSPITALS who just assume everything is taken care of by the government and not be involved?
Should the Hospitals take no responsibility in protecting their staffs?

The hospitals need to take responsibility as well, maybe more so than the government since they employ the at risk staff. The hospitals should be a part of the strategic national stockpile process, assuming everything is taken care of by the government is a mistake, this is the same government and industry that allowed China to manage and control certain drugs including antibiotics.


originally posted by: Bloodworth
I though we are taught not to rely on your government?

The Democrats will make you sick during budget time.

Ventilators will be call for , but they want money for LGBTQ.

Infrastructure will need improvements. but dems want money to go to BLM causes

Dems demand all this weird stuff or they walk away like babies.

Didint pelosi make sure some liberal arts institution was funded before releasing the Corona virus package?

They demand the weirdest things...



posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
The hospitals need to take responsibility as well, maybe more so than the government since they employ the at risk staff.


So you think that private and/or publicly-traded companies/corporations (hospitals) should be responsible for national emergency supplies and stockpiles?
edit on 3/31/20 by redmage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: redmage

Actual production costs are often just a small part of the equation.


Isn't 40k and they are simple to make so not really TM material and can be mass produced. I think most of the designs fall back to old tech type approaches when computers were not around.


edit on 31-3-2020 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 12:23 PM
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No, I am saying the hospitals should be/need to be part of the process, communicating quarterly maybe, to validate that the stockpiles are adequate.
That is now painfully obvious I would say!
Or do you think they, whether public or private hospitals, should be disconnected from the stockpile process designed to support and provide hospitals with life saving ventilators and other PPE equipment designed for their patients and protect their staff-doctors, nurses in the worst of times?
I am saying the hospitals have a responsibility at some point, how could they not?

originally posted by: redmage

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
The hospitals need to take responsibility as well, maybe more so than the government since they employ the at risk staff.


So you think that private and/or public companies/corporations (hospitals) should be responsible for national emergency supplies and stockpiles?

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posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
No, I am saying the hospitals should be/need to be part of the process, communicating quarterly maybe, to validate that the stockpiles are adequate.


These national strategic stockpiles are overseen by government health officials. Hospitals have no access to verify those numbers, or to double check the national strategic stockpile's inventory. That's part of the reason we have the Department of Health and Human Services, and the CDC.
edit on 3/31/20 by redmage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 03:14 PM
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Then we should change that ASAP!
The hospitals need access then, that is my point.
The hospitals have as much at stake here as anyone, don't they? For all our sake.
Instead of growing government with another watchdog agency just get the hospitals involved in the process, make them responsible for oversight of the stockpiles in conjunction with the government health officials who oversee the national strategic stockpiles currently. We give the hospitals plenty of taxpayer money anyway....
www.taxpolicycenter.org...


Q.How much does the federal government spend on health care?
A.The federal government spent nearly $1.1 trillion in fiscal year 2018. In addition, income tax expenditures for health care totaled $225 billion.


If this crisis of management does not open the eyes of those running this failed, unchecked system then nothing will.
Government cannot handle this without a partnership with hospitals.
Oh, well that's just the way we do it..that attitude is what got us here in the first place.

Should we allow China to continue to control our antibiotic manufacturing because..Oh, well that's just the way we do it now.
C'mon. You're arguing against changes and solutions because.. that's just how we do it.
Well it's not working.

originally posted by: redmage

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
No, I am saying the hospitals should be/need to be part of the process, communicating quarterly maybe, to validate that the stockpiles are adequate.


These national strategic stockpiles are overseen by government health officials. Hospitals have no access to verify those numbers, or to double check the national strategic stockpile's inventory. That's part of the reason we have the Department of Health and Human Services, and the CDC.

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posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
Then we should change that ASAP!
The hospitals need access then, that is my point.
The hospitals have as much at stake here as anyone, don't they?


Maybe, but that seems like a logistical nightmare. Leaving oversight of the national emergency stockpile to hundreds of separate companies all motivated by profit, and many in direct competition with one another, seems dangerous. There's countless examples of corporations cutting corners, endangering public health, and even endangering the health of their own employees in pursuit of profits. I'm no fan of big government, but some things need to be handled independent of profit motives.

As I noted in the 1st post on this page, a corporation (Covidien, now Medtronic) played a large part in screwing up the national reserve stockpile of ventilators by backing out of an awarded government contract after purchasing Newport Medical Instruments to seemingly stifle the competition with their own existing ventilator production.

Personally, I think capitalism and profit motives have corrupted Pharmaceuticals, and endangered public health, more than any other industry. There's no shortage of medical researchers who've meet their deaths under mysterious circumstances, and there's no profit motive in developing cures. Drug dealers want their customers dependent and coming back, so the clear motive is in "treatments" not cures.


originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
Instead of growing government with another watchdog agency just get the hospitals involved in the process, make them responsible for oversight of the stockpiles in conjunction with the government health officials who oversee the national strategic stockpiles currently.


As you note, government health officials already oversee the national strategic stockpiles. Growing "another" watchdog agency is what you are suggesting by somehow trying to consolidate and mix in hundreds of individual hospitals into the process. Furthermore, I don't think hospitals in Kansas want hospitals in NY or Cali deciding what reserved stockpiles Kansas might need in reserve, or what percentage of the national stockpile Kansas hospitals may be allowed to dip into.
edit on 3/31/20 by redmage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2020 @ 06:10 PM
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Sounds like great concerns. I think we both are frustrated at the current quagmire.
I just think that the system failed and we need to think out of the box, the current system, methods failed and we are feeling it now.
We can do better, thanks for a tough back in forth.
I can say, I think this or that but it's complicated.



I'm no fan of big government, but some things need to be handled independent of profit motives

Regarding the hospitals profits and losses, our taxes prop them up enough to make this a non issue, from a free market stand point they have no grounds to stand on, they are no more self sufficient than the airline industry, if we are going to be honest about it.




Growing "another" watchdog agency is what you are suggesting by somehow trying to consolidate and mix in hundreds of individual hospitals into the process.

I think this is a misinterpretation of my view, we give so much support to the hospitals and healthcare industry with tax payer funds and legislature that the hospitals need to have some involvement in the process , they need to just communicate better. It should not be a cost issue. They have already been supported and funded, get their CEO to have an open dialogue, I am sick of the high salaries for top dogs in these government funded and supported industries. Especially when they need the kind of help the hospitals need at the most critical time.



I refuse to think this was unavoidable, or that the hospitals don't have a part to play. The hospitals should be more invested
I am just sick of the money we waste on redundant, ineffective processes.

originally posted by: redmage

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
Then we should change that ASAP!
The hospitals need access then, that is my point.
The hospitals have as much at stake here as anyone, don't they?


Maybe, but that seems like a logistical nightmare. Leaving oversight of the national emergency stockpile to hundreds of separate companies all motivated by profit, and many in direct competition with one another, seems dangerous. There's countless examples of corporations cutting corners, endangering public health, and even endangering the health of their own employees in pursuit of profits. I'm no fan of big government, but some things need to be handled independent of profit motives.

As I noted in the 1st post on this page, a corporation (Covidien, now Medtronic) played a large part in screwing up the national reserve stockpile of ventilators by backing out of an awarded government contract after purchasing Newport Medical Instruments to seemingly stifle the competition with their own existing ventilator production.

Personally, I think capitalism and profit motives have corrupted Pharmaceuticals, and endangered public health, more than any other industry. There's no shortage of medical researchers who've meet their deaths under mysterious circumstances, and there's no profit motive in developing cures. Drug dealers want their customers dependent and coming back, so the clear motive is in "treatments" not cures.


originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
Instead of growing government with another watchdog agency just get the hospitals involved in the process, make them responsible for oversight of the stockpiles in conjunction with the government health officials who oversee the national strategic stockpiles currently.


As you note, government health officials already oversee the national strategic stockpiles. Growing "another" watchdog agency is what you are suggesting by somehow trying to consolidate and mix in hundreds of individual hospitals into the process. Furthermore, I don't think hospitals in Kansas want hospitals in NY or Cali deciding what reserved stockpiles Kansas might need in reserve, or what percentage of the national stockpile Kansas hospitals may be allowed to dip into.

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