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What do you think the threshold for the actions we see from the government should be

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posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: shooterbrody

It's likely not temporary. It may die down in the summer but it will be back by fall.

As long as it's still circulating, these *temporary* powers will be used.

I disagree
It appears treatments are being formulated that actually work.
Their manufacturing will be expedited.
This will be costly, but temporary imo.




posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777


If the virus isnt stopped or at least slowed enough to prevent it from overwhelming the healthcare system, we will have economic collapse far worse than now.

We don't know that. That's what we have been told, but the numbers aren't supporting it, especially in relation to past outbreaks that have been mentioned in this thread. What we do know is that a depression will be devastating.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 03:26 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

One treatment that's been approved by the FDA is plasma infusion from patients who have recovered (IOW their antibodies are to be used to help patients fight the virus).

That was announced yesterday.

HOWEVER, just two weeks ago I read a chemist say that such treatment would take at least a year to approve because of the risk of 'antibody-dependent enhancement':



Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) occurs when non-neutralizing antiviral proteins facilitate virus entry into host cells, leading to increased infectivity in the cells.


In other words, patients getting this plasma could then get a second infection from one of the other 40 mutated strains, now identified, and the second infection might be much more severe.

Case in point, this is what happens with dengue fever patients who recover. They can get another dengue infection and the antibodies they have from the first actually HELP the virus attack host cells leading to much more severe cases.

So...since the 40 strains identified in the last three days were not even part of the testing of this plasma treatment, we may be looking at a worse disaster than we have now in the very near future.

Here's a good explanation on that:



“Antibody-dependent enhancement” is a concern for this sort of therapy and for vaccines as well – in general, the antibodies developed against one virus can actually make later infections with later viruses even worse. If the antibodies bind to the new viral proteins but do not actually neutralize them, they can enhance cellular uptake of them, which is exactly what you don’t want.


Link

***

edit: BTW, the same may happen with patients that have recovered without that treatment. We may start seeing people get second infections that are far more severe.
edit on 3/25/2020 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye
Havent the fda requirements been suspended somewhat?
I have read about current on hand durg mixes that have been VERY effective.
With the fda relaxing regulations I think it will be temporary.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

No suspension.
As long as a drug has been approved for any treatment (which means it has gone through safety trials as well as efficacy trials) it can be used for "off label" applications. This is not a change.

edit on 3/25/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: Phage
Ok, expanding the "compassionate use" definition.

Thanks!


edit on 25/3/2020 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 04:11 PM
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Anyone who has watched this and who has any sense knows it is highly likely to overwhelm the healthcate system if its spread is not slowed. Thats what the experts are saying and thats what we are seeing in Italy, Iran, Spain etc. right now. Waiting for more certainty will just mean more dead and a far worse economic calamity.
edit on 25-3-2020 by Ringsofsaturn777 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2020 by Ringsofsaturn777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

No expansion. Totally different.

"Compassionate use" and "Right to try" involves only terminally ill patients and the drug need only have passed Phase I trials (while continuing to undergo higher level trials).

"Off label" means it can be used on anyone and that the drug needs to have been fully approved (as treatment for a different disease or condition).

I recently learned the difference myself.


edit on 3/25/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: Phage
www.businessinsider.com...


Anecdotal reports have suggested the two drugs help some people recover from COVID-19. But neither chloroquine, a generic anti-malaria pill that was approved in the US in 1949, or remdesivir, an antiviral developed by Gilead Sciences, have completed clinical trials for use with COVID-19, so they are considered compassionate use options for the time being.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

The article is incorrect.


"Off-label" means the medication is being used in a manner not specified in the FDA's approved packaging label, or insert. Every prescription drug marketed in the U.S. carries an individual, FDA-approved label. This label is a written report that provides detailed instructions regarding the approved uses and doses, which are based on the results of clinical studies that the drug maker submitted to the FDA.
www.webmd.com...
Chloroquine is an approved drug. Any doctor can prescribe it for any patient for any reason.

Compassionate use is entirely different.

Compassionate drug use (or sometimes just compassionate use) is the use of a new, unapproved drug to treat a seriously ill patient when no other treatments are available.

www.cancer.org...





edit on 3/25/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 06:42 PM
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Let's try this again, one point at a time.


I would have followed the Bill of Rights and allowed for the free assembly of American citizens.


Free assembly means: "Right to Assemble / Right to Petition
The right to assemble allows people to gather for peaceful and lawful purposes. Implicit within this right is the right to association and belief. The Supreme Court has expressly recognized that a right to freedom of association and belief is implicit in the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments. This implicit right is limited to the right to associate for First Amendment purposes. It does not include a right of social association. The government may prohibit people from knowingly associating in groups that engage and promote illegal activities. The right to associate also prohibits the government from requiring a group to register or disclose its members or from denying government benefits on the basis of an individual's current or past membership in a particular group. There are exceptions to this rule where the Court finds that governmental interests in disclosure/registration outweigh interference with First Amendment rights. The government may also, generally, not compel individuals to express themselves, hold certain beliefs, or belong to particular associations or groups.

The right to petition the government for a redress of grievances guarantees people the right to ask the government to provide relief for a wrong through the courts (litigation) or other governmental action. It works with the right of assembly by allowing people to join together and seek change from the government." Source

Where does it say freedom to assemble means work? It doesn't. Next.


I honestly think this supposedly pandemic is manufactured for a totally different agenda. Sort of like 911...


This is what I said was a conspiracy theory.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Simply put- what the consensus of epidemiologists say we should do.

I dont tell people how to do their job that they dedicate their lives to.

I also take advice when someone who knows what they are talking about gives it.

I dont need to know everything and be the smartest that knows whats best always.

Im humble and just vibe like that. Weird huh.


edit on 25-3-2020 by HelloboysImbackguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: shooterbrody

No expansion. Totally different.

"Compassionate use" and "Right to try" involves only terminally ill patients and the drug need only have passed Phase I trials (while continuing to undergo higher level trials).

"Off label" means it can be used on anyone and that the drug needs to have been fully approved (as treatment for a different disease or condition).

I recently learned the difference myself.



Case in point: Viagra was initially a heart drug, then after it was discovered it helps other things it was changed to an ED drug. Cialis is also an ED drug but also helps BPH (enlarge prostate condition) so it is prescribed for that as well.

A human anti-diarrhea drug is prescribed and used on dogs for partially collapsed trachea issues.

It's the way pharma works and that's a positive thing.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: HalWesten

The SCOTUS has determined that corporations are people with regard to many Constitutional rights -- including the right to free speech in the First Amendment. It's quite possible that a business has a protected right to assemble its employees.



edit on 3/25/2020 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: HalWesten

Perhaps you are a little obsessed with me if you are so intent on keeping track.

I notice many people want to focus on me, why I am wrong, ect, and who knows all of those people could be right.

But not one person has answered this basic question.

What is your threshold, would 50000 people dying of this virus in total in the united states justify this sort of reaction to prevent that?


It's not a good idea to make it a question of "thresholds". If you set the threshold anywhere, to any value, then you're just telling the government where the "I can get all the power I want!" button is.

In other words: you're saying there is an "I can get all the power I want!" button.

The higher the threshold is, the more badly off we'll all be when they finally figure out a way to push it.



A better question would be: is this outside the limits we've set in previous presidents?

When Nixon declared a price freeze on gasoline during the oil crisis, how was that different from what is happening today?

What about the Japanese internment camps of World War II?

Is the thing we're seeing today really off script? Or has it always been in the script?



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: Phage
Oh so they are approved for coronavirus?
Who knew we already had a treatment?
They should have spoken to the chinese, this could have all been avoided.
Thanks!



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody




Oh so they are approved for coronavirus?

No they are not. That is why it is called "off label" use.

edit on 3/25/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 08:19 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: HalWesten

The SCOTUS has determined that corporations are people with regard to many Constitutional rights -- including the right to free speech in the First Amendment. It's quite possible that a business has a protected right to assemble its employees.


Show me where that has happened and I will agree. For now the question was whether or not the 1st Amendment guarantees the right for people to go to work as that being an assembly. It does not.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Phage
Oh you had said it was approved "for any reason".

Coronavirus is not a reason?

Off label is unapproved use, even tho the drug is approved.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody




Oh you had said it was approved "for any reason".

No I didn't.


Off label is unapproved use, even tho the drug is approved.
Correct.
edit on 3/25/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



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