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What do you think the threshold for the actions we see from the government should be

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posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
I think a lot of the back and forth about the shutdown and reaction to the virus has to do with not quite understanding not only what this disease would do, and how much costs will be associated with the reaction, but that people have different beliefs on when government should take some sort of actions such as the ones we are seeing.

On the extremes, you probably have some people that would never accept any government infringements, and others that think we would be better off with the government micro managing the country in this way all of the time

Im willing to bet 99 percent of us, myself included, are not in either of these camps.

So the question becomes, what is the threshold we are thinking where we say the sort of reaction we are seeing from the government (btw I am talking USA but anyone from any country can feel free to chime in)?

Let me just throw out a number.

If you could see in a crystal ball, and found that this disease would have killed 50000 people in the USA if the government didnt take these actions, would you be fro these actions or think it was an overreaction?



Just going to jump in from the start and then go back and read Grambler. I think you are missing the point for these actions. It is not the total death count that is of concern. Rather it is the total infected that will overwhelm our medical field. lack of access to medical care would increase other health data sets and statistics.

Add in those who would fall ill and unable to work at the same time...businesses would be unable to produce and the economy would be worse off with no support established for the unprepared.

This spans across adding all levels of care on up to critically severe cases being added to the many various other illnesses within our country. The projections that are being looked at by the CDC are the beds to infected ratios more so. Italy has 3.8 beds per 1000. USA has 2.8 beds per 1000. Our technology and knowledge will nullify this to a seasonal flu status in the future, but for now, it is a global concern.

So far, I have not seen any authoritan federal orders being issued to restrain my rights. No break from the Constitution. There may be recommendations provided, but state and local lockdowns have been enforced based on those local/State governments independent actions.

I am hopeful that more focus local/national manufacturing, ect, will build up and strengthen our economy even more so. This is a wake up call to unite and innovate locally not tear up the Constitution.




posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: ScepticScot

Which begs the question, Italy went fuller retard than anyone, why isn't it working? Hmmmmm.


What do u mean when you say "fuller retard?" Not shutting down travel from china? Hug a chinese person day?



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
What do u mean when you say "fuller retard?" Not shutting down travel from china? Hug a chinese person day?


As in even more retard than we did here.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Can't fix a broken system within weeks anywhere outside of China, ask your favorite Roman in case of doubt.


Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all.

Aristotle



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: ScepticScot

Which begs the question, Italy went fuller retard than anyone, why isn't it working? Hmmmmm.


Italy was the first country outside Asia to have a significant outbreak. They have been chasing their tail from the start and are further into the cycle than other European countries.

Not sure why you would think not working as we have no control group of were no isolation measures have been introduced.

China seems to have got it under control (using even more stringent measures) however using the Spanish flu as an example the second wave was by far the more deadly. We simply don't know yet what has as hasn't worked yet.

We can however reasonably assume that letting it run completely unchecked would have resulted in significantly more loss of life.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

As in even more retard than we did here.


We shut down travel from china.. was that more or less "retard" than not doing so?



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Can't fix a broken system within weeks anywhere outside of China, ask your favorite Roman in case of doubt.


Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all.

Aristotle


Please tell us that was deliberate.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
We can however reasonably assume that letting it run completely unchecked would have resulted in significantly more loss of life.


Or, we could have taken a reasonable approach which I discussed in my government lackey thread.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: HalWesten




What's your point? Do you think the current administration wants to subvert the Bill of Rights now?


Wants to..? They already have. Read Article 1. Totally usurped states rights; That directive came from FEMA.

Broad over reaction to covid-19 ....do you think the small business economy will ever recover. I don't....

Do you think any Big corps are going to want to move back to the US with this war on business, especially small business vendors...I don't

Besides this Covid-19, there seems to be an outbreak of naivete. Boiled frog should lessen the symptoms...










edit on 25-3-2020 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2020 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
We shut down travel from china.. was that more or less "retard" than not doing so?


I didn't have a major problem with that measure. Tanking the economy, different story.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScepticScot
We can however reasonably assume that letting it run completely unchecked would have resulted in significantly more loss of life.


Or, we could have taken a reasonable approach which I discussed in my government lackey thread.


You are starting from the position this isn't a reasonable approach to the problem.

Most 'light touch' measures simply wouldn't slow the spread sufficiently. It may turn out that this has been an over reaction but based on the best evidence we have, and facing a millions dead possible outcome, I am not sure what a more reasonable approach would be.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
You are starting from the position this isn't a reasonable approach to the problem.


I am, and I will not be moved from that stance.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:10 PM
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Caught up now on posts in this thread. It is obvious that many have a very narrow focus on these numbers. Comparing apples to oranges, instead of stepping back and looking at the whole fruit market.

All of those statistics for cancer, diabetes, influenza, car accidents, suicides, ect...don't just disappear. Those individuals will still need to be tended to medically. The issue at hand is that we have now just added a very infectious virus into an unprepared medical field.

By reducing the flow of infection, our medical field can prepare to handle this virus and other medical cases and not be overwhelmed. This makes absolute sense to me as the Director of our city hospital explained it to me.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
I didn't have a major problem with that measure. Tanking the economy, different story.


Allowing a virus to overwhelm the healthcare system will result in lots of panic, civil unrest, death etc. and surely tank the economy .. sometimes there is no pleasant option and you have to go with what seems like the least horrific.

There is no guarantee the efforts will stop the virus entirely or even enough, but they will surely slow it down and give the healthcare system some time to ramp up their ability to deal with it.
edit on 25-3-2020 by Ringsofsaturn777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
We shut down travel from china.. was that more or less "retard" than not doing so?


I didn't have a major problem with that measure. Tanking the economy, different story.

I think the problem you are running into in trying get your point across is what I was trying to get at in my first post. Few people alive today have any comprehension of what tanking the economy actually means to them personally. They have no point of reference to compare and weigh the two extremes in question, therefore your points don't seem near as threatening as this scary virus. Nor do most people comprehend government overreach and the long term effects of it. We are teetering on a fine line, and it's not a comforting thought.
edit on 3/25/2020 by Klassified because: grammar



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777
Allowing a virus to overwhelm the healthcare system and will result in lots of panic, civil unrest, death etc. and surely tank the economy .. sometimes there is no pleasant option and you have to go with what seems like the least horrific.


There's already panic and a tanked economy unless you haven't been paying attention.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: HalWesten




What's your point? Do you think the current administration wants to subvert the Bill of Rights now?


Wants to..? They already have. Read Article 1. Totally usurped states rights; That directive came from FEMA.


You're going to have to be a little more specific. What exactly have they violated?



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: Klassified
I think the problem you are running into in trying get your point across is what I was trying to get at in my first post. Few people alive today has any comprehension of what tanking the economy actually means to them personally. They have no point of reference to compare and weigh the two extremes in question, therefore your points don't seem near as threatening as this scary virus. Nor do most people comprehend government overreach and the long term effects of it. We are teetering on a fine line, and it's not a comforting thought.


Not looking forward to telling my descendants what it was like living through a depression and government takeover.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScepticScot
You are starting from the position this isn't a reasonable approach to the problem.


I am, and I will not be moved from that stance.


Which is both admirable and totally stupid at the same time.



posted on Mar, 25 2020 @ 01:16 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
Which is both admirable and totally stupid at the same time.


Thank you! I aims to please.



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